Stakes should be left in place until the root system had time to establish.
I usually leave them in for a couple of years.
It depends what trees you have, some are more vulnerable to wind,..like tall trees, littles guy's can be without stake sometimes.

well Konrad It was a Dogwood (Cornus Florida). Planted in early April I removed the staking material in Mid November. It was practically choking the tree (when i lifted the material off the wood was red and swollen). So since then its been about 6 months I had the stakes on. I've heard some dogwoods are a bit wind resistant though
The picture below shows the tree since I've removed the stakes the tree is about 10-12 feet tall about 4-6 feet wide. I've also had to remove some dead branches to shape it better

This post was edited by gardenapprentice on Thu, Dec 27, 12 at 13:14

I only rarely stake trees (when I determine that they need it). If your tree's roots are stable enough that the tree is not pitched out of the ground or its roots are not torn from movement (a sign of a poorly developed root system to start with), then your tree can indeed benefit from wind. Like the old saying, "what doesn't kill you makes you strong," root systems are strengthened by wind load if the load is not excessive (as to cause failure). I would go out and examine the situation. I bet you'll be able to tell if the trees need to be staked.

I have heard that it strengthens the trunk and branches.

It should strengthen the tree both above-ground and below-ground. An off-set of this is that growth (up) will be hindered as the tree is busy growing strong due to the wind stimuli.

I'm not sure when the best time of year to prune Cornus florida is, but your tree looks like it could have some of the branches thinned out. Which would also reduce wind resistance.

I don't always stake trees either, but it depends. Is it nursery grown or a transplant, how windy is the new location, evergreen or deciduous, etc.

Last fall (2011) I moved three 5-6 foot Yews to a super windy corner of the yard, where they are blasted by NW winds. After a week or so they started to lean, so I rushed to get them all staked - but only in that one direction. They're still staked, I will leave those on longer than usual because of the wind.

no

i am going to fix on the word 'strengthen' ...

and i would suggest that an inanimate object.. like a tree.. can not 'work out' .. and 'pump itself up' .. to make itself stronger ...

when planted.. or seed sown ... the tree will have an inherent ability to support itself ... short of catastrophe ...

but 'blowin in the wind' .. will not make it stronger ..

its a planting/potting issue.. and mistakes made.. or poor stock.. is NOT going to overcome such ... mostly because it will keep blowing over ...

that is a bit of an over-generalization.. and i suppose.. they can overcome it.. given that all other variables are perfect ...

in other words ... staking should be very short term.. and if you have problems after a year or two ... hoping and dreaming that it can 'eventually' get over it.. might not be the best bet in Vegas ...

i have having trouble with the words.. i dont know if i am typing what i am meaning to say ... anyone care to run with it????

ken

While I generally agree with the conclusions reached by Ken right here ^ , I don't agree with all of the points along the way to reaching those conclusions! It is thought, and by this I mean it is strongly believed, that buffeting by wind does indeed strengthen tree parts, up to but not including the point where said wind is strong enough to physically damage said tree parts. And while I'm not feeling particularly up-to-date on this point, I'm pretty sure that extends to roots.

A classic example of this, by means of its opposite, is what happens to the trees surrounding a timber harvest area. Frequently, these remaining trees turn out to be very susceptible to windthrow. Growing up as they did, in a heavily stocked forest stand, wind was not so much of a factor and it seems, they've therefor not developed these strengthened tissues that we believe are commonplace in open-grown trees.

I do still maintain though that even when staking is deemed necessary, it is best for the tree if these stakes are left on for no more than two years, preferably just one year. As always, I remain open to knew findings should they appear. Ed Gilman down at the U of FL is doing as much or more than anyone I'm aware of in researching wind effects on trees.

+oM

Yeah I was thinking about leaving them on for a year, but as I stated before the material was strapped on way to tight and I couldn't even loosen it.

terrene~ I have pruned about 10 branches off it, they were either dead or taking up space and they didn't look ornamental. I made the terrible mistake of pruning off a branch in july hopefully no borers have taken advantage of it.

Not being staked is better than being girdled by the stake's wrap for sure!

Its winter so I bet you'll be ok. B&B or potted large transplants just have that pivoting ball of a root ball in the ground so I dunno.

When I stake create a circle with a piece of pantyhose and tie it so the tree can sway a bit but where most of the time it is limp. That make sense?

Yes it does make sense. The tree was B&B. I'd say it was more of a "guying" stake where 3 straps of some material were tied to the tree. I took one off in september, then the other two in november. So hopefully we dont get any hurricane force winds or gusts

I have always been interested in thigmomorphogenesis but have never pursued my interest. I wonder if this could also relate to roots.

Thigmomorphogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia " M.J. Jaffe discovered in the 1970s that regular rubbing or bending of stems inhibits their elongation and stimulates their radial expansion, resulting in shorter, stockier plants."

Well I mean no offense to that but I think that is preposterous rubbing and bending the stems making it stockier? that dosen't exactly make much sense to me.

I think it sounds vaguely pornographic! But seriously, many living systems, both animal and plant, have ways to accomodate various irritations. Doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Keep in mind, the mere presence of sunlight falling on a plant stem causes shortening of growth on that sunward side and elongation on the opposite side. Hence, phototropism, the bending towards light that all plants are capable of, save perhaps some mosses, etc.

+oM

"........but 'blowin in the wind' .. will not make it stronger .."

That statement is just absolutely wrong.
_______________________________________________________

Re: pruning to decrease wind resistance

Keep in mind that thinning and pruning a tree's canopy to reduce wind resistance is often counterproductive in the long run. When you thin the canopy, the tree responds by growth from remaining areas. This causes the tree to grow taller and puts a greater load on the lower trunk and root system. Also, when pruning newly-planted/recently-planted trees, the pruning removes energy and resources that would otherwise be available for growing roots. Pruning before establishment increase time required for establishment.

Personally, the only pruning I would do with a recently planted tree would be removal of dead, diseased, damaged, or rubbing limbs.

I think you should be OK, gardenapprentice's.
You have branches low and Doogwood is pretty flexible.

>>"........but 'blowin in the wind' .. will not make it stronger .."Trees, which are growing on the outside of a forest are subject to harsh wind and allot stronger then the one growing next to the inside,..sure, there are other factors, like more light, moisture and more room.

My understanding is that wind servesasan exercise to strengthen the branches and the trunk I don't know about the roots.With the same token when you grow seedlings from seed inside your house in winter you have to provide a van to plow gentle air at the seedlings.

I havent staked my trees. My logic is, if they cant stand up, and support themselves, the they are useless to me, or the tree wasnt growing fast enough, therefore maybe the wrong tree.

It would also depend on WHAT kind of tree. A dwarf apple (on rootstock) should be staked, due to the (usually) small root ball, where as an ash tree, shouldnt have any problem.

I would be more worried in the summer, than winter. Then again, dogwoods grow quite fast right? It should put out a good enough root system in the first year, maybe to.

One piece of advice: Dont prue the tree to a "lollipop" shape (a log trunk, with a small bit of branches). That will create a "sail" and will be more likely to be snapped/blown over.

If it gives you piece of mind, my semi dwarf apple tree has never been staked, and in the 2 years its been planted, its seen 70kph wind gusts, and has seen 40kph winds sustained a few times. Nothing happened to it.

From observations since moving out here from east Texas, clearly trees grown in open windy areas are shorter & stockier (hence stronger)than those grown in a more forest-type environment. Just always assumed the roots were somewhat mirroring what I see above-ground as they have to be able to hold the tree firmly against the stress of the wind.

i am still struggling with the premise ...

i totally agree with everything above ... given a tree with a previously fine root system ...

OP has a tree with roots problems..

and i doubt.. blowing in the wind.. is going to fix those problems ...

in other words.. a tree.. from babe size.. will grow strong and vigorous.. and be fine with its environment ...

a tree with a pre-existing problem.. is NOT going to be better off .. or overcome its pre-existing problems.. if it can somehow survive long enough in the wind ...

in double other words.. its will not strengthen to the point of being non-problematic ..

i suppose at some point.. it is simply semantics.. [arguing the words themselves]

ken

When deemed necessary due to a wind situation a happy medium is the low stake driven in on the side that the predominant wind is from (to prevent rubbing). It allows the top and trunk to strenghten while doing what a stake is supposed to do - stabilize the root ball to help roots establish.

Even with this technique one year, in essence two rooting seasons keyed by temperature change and/or photoperiod, is all that the stake should remain.

hortster

When I planted my 2-3ft trees last Spring I used these (see link below). They aren't stakes, but more of a support, but they don't touch the trees' trunks unless the wind blows hard enough to move them far enough one way to touch the support.

I love these things! As the trees grew I had to keep buying larger and larger ones. It was pretty funny.

I can't say enough good things about them. I live right next to a prairie practically and most times the wind is minimal, but when a front moves in, and coming off the lake, it's pretty powerful. Plus one set of our trees is between our house and the neighbors and it's like a gigantic wind tunnel.

My trees trunks are rock hard and very sturdy, they'd likely hold up in the wind very well, but since they are new transplants I am not going to leave them to their own devices.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gardener's Supply Supports

canadianplant~ dogwoods don't grow as fast it depends on lots of factors. But any way im glad i staked it from the get-go even though it was straining the trunk.
But then again my tree will usually become the kind of elongated, short, and stocky tree. Mainly because it is isolated and in full sun. And about the "lollipop" tree I lol'd but I done prune that hard I just pruned about 5 branches to shape it the way I wanted it.

But i feel good about the tree in general, even though it was B&B we watered it nurtured it and it has had stronger winds but this time I was pondering about it. If I could really see or tell how the root ball was I would post pics but I dont have the time or energy lol

It has been shown that norway spruces regularly exposed to strong winds develop a different cross-section of their major roots. The roots on unstressed trees have oval/circular cross-section while those of stressed trees have a T-shaped cross-section that improves their resistance to wind-throw.

Biological systems (and most complex systems, also inanimate ones) develop in different ways in response to consistent stresses. Just as a plant develops a deeper root systems in response to droughts, or grows taller to reach canopy, I don't see what is so unbelievable in imagining how a plant will direct its resources to improve its structure, when repeatedly stressed by wind.

What Tom mentioned is, I believe, also responsible for the phenomenon of the Fir Waves...

Now, coming to the topic of the conversation, I believe these adaptations will take time to set in, and I think staking would make sense in that light. Also, staking means everything and nothing. I can stake a tree so that its trunk will not move by one inch. Or I can stake widely enough just so it won't topple. These two ways of staking must have completely different effects on how the plant will adapt to wind.

Ken, where'd you get the idea that gardenapprentice's tree's root system had problems? I've read through the thread twice, but don't see anything. Unless something's been edited away....

Even though this isn't really worth posting, I might as well add this picture (below) ITs the tree in summer. The stakes were actually not harming the tree. But as August came around the trunk became to get swollen and the stakes wouldnt even budge. To me it looks a bit stocky already since it is partially isolated by the trees and only gets some light shade in the morning

Even though this isn't really worth posting, I might as well add this picture (below) ITs the tree in summer. The stakes were actually not harming the tree. But as August came around the trunk became to get swollen and the stakes wouldnt even budge. To me it looks a bit stocky already since it is partially isolated by the trees and only gets some light shade in the morning

brandon...

the name rang a bell.. and i SWEAR.. there was a previous post ...

the kids have been off school for 10 days.. plus 7 more.. it is completely possible.. i am hallucinating .. lol ...

apprentice ... was there a previous discussion.. a month back or so??? ... if so.. can you link us .. so i can review any previous comments.. and insure my personal reality/sanity ... i do prefer not to be debating things i dream up.. in public anyway ... lol ...

ken

ken I dont think so.... I know I've had a few other posts but it wasnt about the topic where on right now

its pretty bad.. when i am NOT hallucinating.. but OP does NOT remember my somber words ...

this tree is one of the most posted about trees.. in the GW universe ... copy/paste this if you care to look:

http://search.gardenweb.com/search/?term=gardenapprentice&x=16&y=8

man you need another tree.. lol ... if only so you will leave this one alone.. lol ...

second.. few weeks ago??? .. august???? .. whats the difference.. at least i didnt dream it ... see link ...

proper watering.. grows roots .. to stabilize the tree for the long run ... blowing in the wind.. will NOT grow a good root mass .. UNLESS all other variables are met ...

so.. whats next years tree ???? and let me suggest.. if you go smaller.. you can buy a couple for the same money.. and smaller trees wont blow over in the wind.. wont need guying nor staking.. etc ...

hey brandon.. in the conifer forum.. are pix of my garden ... slum on over there.. if you wish ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I first read about this phenomenon, for lack of better word, when starting vegetables indoors. If you let a fan blow the seedlings around a bit when starting indoors that it strengthens the stems.