Abandoned houses are good places to get acorns and hickory nuts, Alabama. I got some hickory nuts from an old abandoned house - unfortunately, only two of the seeds came up, and those two haven't grown at all, just sat there about 4" high. Most oaks have done pretty well for me, though.
I'm thinking I should wait and order my white oaks in the early spring, since it's worked better for me to grow them in pots for a season or so before planting them out. If I plant them this winter, when they make new growth in the spring, the deer will probably chew them to the ground - they may or may not survive that. Taller plants can survive some browsing.
Sherry

Alot of the myth of "white" oak slowness comes from the fact they're slow in starting -- takes 2 yrs or so to establish a tap root. After that, growth is decent, Bur oak for me grew nearly three feet summer of 2007 (alittle less this yr).

All three of my tiny, mail-order seedling "white" oaks (Bur, Chestnut, and Swamp white) planted spring 2004 are now over 7' tall & grow more than 2' a yr. Shumard oak (a red oak) is fastest at 14' tall. Even a little Chestnut oak started from a local acorn is 5'.

Missherry:

Do white oaks need well drained soils? Well, I would not recommend them for really poorly drained soils, but they are very adaptable to wetter and not really well drained soils. Unless a soil is really very, very heavy with clay and/or is completely saturated for long periods, white oak should do fine. They are more adaptable to wetter and somewhat poorly drained soils than many other trees, such as sugar maple, for example. But they will not tolerate wet soils as well as red maple, on the other side of the scale.

They often grow with chestnut oaks on well drained sites, but a white oak will grow on a lot of the heavier, wetter soils that a chestnut oak will not do well in. If in doubt, give Quercus alba a try--it is one of our more adaptable trees. But for best growth a deep and rich moderately to fairly well drained soil is best. Dry ridgetops are not ideal sites for good growth, but they can do well on those sites also. Even when eastern white oak is on a site that is not ideal for them to grow into the truly majestic trees they can be at their best, they are very lovely trees anyway. On poorer sites they never look weak or sick, they just grow slower and not so large. Really, the Quercus alba has few if any weak points.

--Spruce

If they're that adaptable, I've got a place in mind that I hadn't considered for a white oak, Spruce. It's not inundated, but in the spring, it can stay quite wet. I need a big tree there - this particular little area lost all its big trees in the hurricane.
The most magnificent white oak I've ever seen is/was in Buckatunna,MS/Wayne County by a REAL old, abandoned house in what is basically on abandoned old town - Buckatunna was one of the biggest towns in MS in the 1830's, second only to Natchez as I recall. The Scotch-Irish branch of my family moved there from South Carolina in 1811. I think I'm going to ask my husband to take us for a drive up there and try to find it again, although most of the leaves would be gone now. It was not only tall, but hugely wide spreading. Shoot! There might be acorns under it - I hope it was far enough north that Katrina didn't do it much damage!
Sherry

Sherry:

When I was a young boy I was always exploring my neighborhood for large trees. I lived in a rural area, so there were lots of woods, swamps, etc. The finest old white oak I found was in a bottomland woodland that a few years before had a drainage ditch cut through it--in the old days people were always "improving" land by draining wet areas. Now this tree was not growing in a really, really wet area, and the ditch was cut primarily to drain adjacent land that was really swampy, but the elevation was the same. When I walked through this area the ground generally didn't go "squish, squish," so to speak, but this was a bottomland nevertheless. Anyway, the tree was something over 4 feet in diameter and really looked prehistoric because of the huge overgrown stubs or large lower branches that had been lost years before.

OK, there are limits to the wetness that white oak can tolerate, but the "squishing" of the ground, if it lasts no more than a couple days after a heavy rain, should not be a problem. But if you have doubts, you could plant a white oak, and then also some other really water tolerant tree as a back-up.

Oh, one other indicator might be what kinds of trees that were growing there before the hurricane. If you could give me a list of those, I might be more certain about the prospects for a white oak there.

By the way, there is an amazing white oak not too far from me here in Winchester. In front of an old Episcopal (I think) church in the tiny town of Boyce, is a truly majestic white oak with a massive trunk and soaring arching branches. This tree could knock anyone's socks off, so to speak. My guess is that it is something over 6, maybe even 7 feet in diameter and well over 100 feet tall.

--Spruce

Sherry:

I have done a bit of checking about eastern white oak and its tolerance for wet areas. I want to be careful I am not exaggerating its adaptability. Maybe what I said before is correct, but there is some variability in what I am finding from several sources. In any case Quercus alba can grow very well in bottomlands, but not in really wet or poorly drained bottomlands. It can do very, very well in soils that are technically "moderately well drained" as well as "well drained" soils. I would not plant it in any soils that could be described as poorly drained.

Swamp white oak, if you want an oak, would be a choice that will tolerate somewhat wetter soils than eastern white oak. I would suggest that for a backup. But it is not quite so fine a tree.

--Spruce

Hmmm....this area is what the locals call a 'bay head' - to me, it's the bottom of the hollow, where a stream flows in the spring. This water empties into White Pond, which is a lake sized 'pond' to the west of here. The water never sits in this area in the spring, because this particular part of the 'bay head' is much higher than the rest of it - it just flows over it.
I've been researching the Buckatunna area, and the family descended from the original owners of the house have a website - they were the earliest settlers of that area, and the website says the house and trees are still there. I've sent out an e-mail asking if I can visit the house and tree and gather some acorns if it made any this year. I'll let you know when and if I get a reply.
Sherry

I forgot to tell you what trees grow there/used to grow there, Spruce - water oak, sweetgum, blackgum, loblolly pine, sweetbay, southern Magnolia, red maple, American holly, and red oak.
If you think it's too wet for a white oak, I'll plant them somewhere else and plant a tulip tree there. Tulip trees grow in abundance lower down the hollow - the biggest tree on my property was a tulip tree in that lower area, and, unfortunately, it came down in the hurricane - broke my heart!! But there are still big ones there that will reach that size in my lifetime, hopefully.
Sherry

Sherry:

The trees you have had growing there, especially the tuliptree and the red oak, as far as I have observed, will not grow on any soil too wet for eastern white oak.

From your last e-mail, where you talk of areas "lower down the hollow," tells me that the site you are considering is unlikely to have a high stagnant water table. On my tree farm I have two white oaks in really rather wet areas (one sitting virtually on top of a spring), but areas where there is some, but maybe not much, of a slope. Both of these trees are growing very well--one so nicely that it is veneer quality. I think that you may well have a very good site for an eastern white oak.

And since you already have nice tuliptrees on your land, but maybe no white oaks (?), I would go with the white oak.

But one more thought about the site--white oak really needs full sun for good development. It needs at least a 90 degree upward window to the sun (no less than a 45 degree angle upward to the nearest tree tops in all directions, except, perhaps, to the north, or one or two isolated tree tops within that range). But this is also true of tuliptrees and other trees that are not considered "tolerant." Tolerant trees include trees such as sugar maple, beech, and hemlock.

Also, let me add, that I planted some on my land here in Winchester 6 years ago. I know I will never see them get to be really big trees--but I enjoy very much watching them grow. Maybe I can't really explain my feelings, but white oaks are fun to watch grow--they have a solidity, or something, about them--maybe just their nice proportions as they grow--that that makes them very satisfying. I don't really think that much about my not seeing them get to some kind of magnificence in my time. But they are "legacy trees," trees that can give pleasure to many generations to come.

Well, I hope you try the white oak, but I give whatever tree you choose my blessing for excellent growth and a long life!

--Spruce

Sherry, Spruce, Alabama et. al.

I've really enjoyed reading this discussion about oaks. I always learn so much from you. This spring, I planted many seedlings (too many), but focused mainly on oaks, bald cypresses, and longleaf pines (most but not all the conifers are in separate groves).

The oaks have been a pure delight! Based on advice received here. I planted 200 oaks - white oak (Q. alba), cherrybark oak (Q. falcata v. pagodafolia), swamp chestnut oak (Q. michauxii), Nuttall oak (Q. nuttalli), and southern red oak (Q. falcata). All seedlings were from the state nurseries in VA and TX.

The white oaks leafed out early. The southern red oaks were so slow, I thought they were dead. Some didn't leaf out until end of July. Although these trees are young and cold weather arrived early, the white, cherrybark and Nuttall oaks are still putting on a lovely show.

The oaks had excellent survival rates. When I did the last tally a month ago, I don't think I lost more than 1-2 seedlings. Not so lucky with the LLPs but they are pickier and I used NC seedlings.

Sherry, I think about buying some larger oaks from FF or Oikos too. After I saw Alabama's photos, I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I should stick with the little guys. It's a hard call. I ordered more oak seedlings for delivery in January - bur and shumard. In a year or two, after the oaks get bigger, I'll start planting tulip trees, red maples, sugar maples, beech, pawpaw, etc.

Spruce: You advised me to use black locusts as nurse trees. You would not believe the growth of those rascals - by late July, some were 12 feet tall. I tried to upload a couple of photos but my image program keeps crashing so I'll try to do this tomorrow when I'm not so sleepy.

Hail to the Oaks!

Thanks, Spruce! I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sun angle, but I can visualize the 45 degree angle from tree tops. On the north side, the angle may only be 45 degrees, but on the other three sides, including the south side, it's much greater. This is the biggest opening on the forested parts of my property - there were real big loblolly pines growing there before the hurricane, but they all came down, and, in falling, brought down some big sweetbays/magnolia virginiana(they get big here) and others, can't remember what. Now that you say they need that much sun, I may have to eliminate one spot I'd picked out, I'll have to look again.
White oaks are one of my favorite oaks, too. I've got some closely related bluff oaks, but they've been slow growing, so I figured the stories about white oaks growing slowly were true. Of course, swamp chestnut oaks are closely related, too, and they grow fast.
I sure hope I get to see that huge one in Buckatunna again. I'll make pictures and post a thread about it - if my memory is correct about this tree, it'll be worth posting!
Sherry

Sherry, if you want a tree for fall color in our area you should get a Turkey Oak (Q.laevis). I noticed some on the side of the road today with a stunning crimson red color. They don't get big but I think it would make a wonderful small tree. I have read that they like sandy soil, but the ones I saw today were growing in red clay. I imagine they do need good drainage though. I wanted to stop and see if I could collect some acorns but I had cars on my bumper. I think I may order me one from MailOrderNatives.

Sherry:

I think your site is near perfect. A little more information: White oaks are more tolerant than red oaks, especially when young. They can grow up through very narrow openings if the surrounding trees don't cast especially dense shade. I have one growing up between black cherry trees, and eventually it will get through and be a magnificent tree. But the growth rate is about half what it would be with more sun exposure.

Also, there may be some advantage in getting white oak from some local seed source, but I don't think it is really necessary.

Also, if you can plant several in the area, especially if you get small seedlings, this can be good--you can let them all grow for a while and then remove all but the best one or two--white oak have some genetic variability from tree to tree. The appearance of the foliage is very much the same, but the growth form can be controlled by variable genetic factors. But again, this is not really important--I am not aware of any tendency in white oak to produce poor "runts.". And finally, white oak trees work together wonderfully well in groups--maybe two planted close together (10 feet or so), or a group of three spaced 15 feet, etc. This arrangement encourages them to develop the high arching and soaring limbs that create a cathedral effect. But white oak trees growing alone with their wonderful ability to spread wide--probably wider than any other oak, except, perhaps, a live oak--are especially nice. Growing alone they can develop a rugged spreading form with massive trunks.

Well, have fun. Eastern white oak (Quercus alba) is, in my not so humble opinion, the finest ornamental hardwood tree in the whole wide world. Hah! you see my unabashed enthusiasm in full flower!

--Spruce

Pam, it looks like you planted a wide selection of oaks. Oddly, the few red oaks/q. falcata var. pagodafolia that I planted have hardly grown at all, even though red oak grows naturally all over my property, and I think it's the 'pagoda'/cherrybark type that grows here. Have you ever seen the wood of red oak? It's beautiful, much redder than wild black cherry, at least here it is - unfortunately, I got to see some of it after the hurricane. My fastest growers have been bur oak, swamp chestnut oak, and laurel oak, which has grown like a weed, but I read it doesn't live long.
Alabama, I gathered some sand post oak acorns from a few little trees I found growing near Black Creek. I love the way this tree looks, with the dense, medium size leaves - I think they're prettier than regular post oak. You, Pam or Spruce can e-mail me if you want some acorns, and I'll go back and see if any are left. I don't think I've ever seen turkey oak, but if my sand post oaks don't come up or grow, then I'd sure be interested in trying that one! The red fall color sounds great, something we don't get much of, do we?
Sherry

I have found a few oak seedlings in the woods, my question is this a white oak? {{gwi:496785}}

The deeply indented leaves on the ground definitely look like white oak to me, but the leaves on the actual seedling are only slightly indented, like bluff oak. I'm assuming that it's a white oak seedling, and the reason the leaves are diffrent is because they're juvenile leaves, which are frequently different from mature leaves. Like live oak leaves start out indented with prickles on the ends, then magically smooth out completely with age!
I'll let Spruce or some of the better informed tree people to give the final verdict, though.
Sherry

Sherry and tofone:

Another oak to consider is Nuttall Oak. It's a member of the white oak family, grows fast, has great fall color, and tolerates wet conditions better than most oaks.

Michael Dirr recommends it highly, calls it a "nurseryman's tree."

I planted 50 seedlings. They leafed out early, had several flushes of growth this year. I planted several near a pond that floods occasionally, and in windy conditions. All of these survived and look good.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nuttall Oak

Nuttall oak looks like one I'll be trying soon, Pam!
I found another place open enough in the woods to plant a variety of trees/bushes today, so I dug three holes there and was surprised how good the soil looked. It was real black with a little sand in it, very different from the orange clay that I find not far from it - such a big variety of soils on my little 'ole 5 1/2 acres! I'm thinking about planting three of my potted up big leaf magnolias there - they do best in part sun/shade with wind protection, which this site gives - but I don't want to take a chance on them getting browsed by deer.
Is that wire you've got around your white oak one of those wire cages they sell for tomato plants, Alabama? That would work for a while, but it wouldn't be long before I'd need something taller. I'm thinking about how I could build something that'd last for several years. I need to figure something out - ideas anybody?
Sherry

misssherry - Your seedling looks like a white oak. It could be that it is in the shade and as a result the seedling leaves are not as deeply lobed. The increased surface area helps it to capture more light. I know this is common in some oaks like Southern Red Oaks. Also, as far as the hickories you mentioned in an earlier thread are concerned...they just grow really slow. It takes about 3 years for the taproot to establish...then you'll see more gains above ground. Good Luck! I wish I could do like you guys and add more trees to my yard, but its too small.

I meant to say "the hickories you mentioned earlier in the thread" woops!

Sherry, the wire I used was the kind on a roll, kinda like chicken wire but stronger. I bought mine at Marvin's, but you can get it at Lowes or Home Depot. I said mine was 3ft tall, but I think it's actually 4ft. You can get it as tall as 6ft. It comes 50ft on a roll and it's not that expensive. You just roll off however much you need and then make a circle with it and hook it together with pliers. You'll need to anchor it, and for that I use old coathangers, just make some "U" shaped pieces and stick them in the ground. The only animal that has knocked mine over is my goat, but he's really hardheaded. Deer have never touched them.

Thanks, Alabama, I think I can handle that!
Sherry

In case anyone is awaiting my expert (!) opinion about the little seedlings--yes, I agree with those who say the leaves are juvenile leaves, and probably white oak.

As for the planting a group of white oaks with the idea of getting the soaring and arching cathedral effect--let me amend the spacing recommendation from 15 feet apart to 20 or a little wider.

--Spruce

Spruce: Can you expand on this idea? A small group or grove of oaks where you want to achieve a soaring, arching cathedral effect?

When you plant the seedlings, they would stand alone? Would the lower branches drop on their own or would you need to do surgery? What other steps would you have to take to get that effect?

I'm not recommending it to you, because it is adapted to a Mediterranean climate such as California (rain only in the winter, and not much then), but my favorite tree is the valley oak. I like our redwoods nearly as well. When I lived in the east, white oaks were my favorite tree. I suspect you couldn't grow valley oaks successfully because here we are cautioned not to water them in the summer, meaning that we cannot grow them in a typical garden. Still, it is such a magnificent tree that I wanted to mention it.

Rosefolly

Pam:

First, I think it would take many, many years--at least something like 40 or 50 for a good start. I would just plant the trees and let them grow. Eventually, as they grow bigger and the crowns begin to close the gap between them, the branches on that side will begin to arch higher, and the lower limbe will die and shed. Of course some pruning off of the dead/dying limbs can be good as the trees grow.

In the native woods, these trees often begin to grow in dense stands, so that helps the effect develop. Then as the slower growing/weaker trees are overtopped and die, the larger and stronger ones continue to arch higher creating something really magnificent. Maybe the best thing one could do would be to plant a bunch of trees 10 to 12 feet apart, and then thin out for the best ones after 15/20 years.

When I was in Washington, D.C. I spent a lot of time walking through the woods in Rock Creek Park, and there are a few really outstanding white oak "cathedrals" there. Probably the most spectacular I have ever seen is a few trees in the "Belt Woods" just east of Bowie MD. There are a few white oaks there that have the most amazing soaring and arching branches. Some of these oaks are over 120 to maybe 135 feet tall, and the massive branches where they begin to arch away from each other have spectacularly thick "buttresses" or ribs where these branches join the trunk and or separate from other branches. It is a shame there are not more places where white oaks have been allowed to grow in a forest for 200 years. This is the only place I know, and there are not really not that many white oaks there. That stand is known mostly for its spectacular tuliptrees.

Occasionally some northern red oaks can approximate this kind of effect, but only occasionally, and maybe only with certain genetic strains. White oaks do this commonly. With very old trees like those in the Belt Woods, the effect is one of massive strength and grandeur. But in some of the younger stands, like one place in particular in Rock Creek Park (trees about 100 years old), the effect is one of incredible grace and lightness--kind of a gravity-defying feel.

Well, excuse my poor attempt to paint word pictures, but eastern white oaks are really wonderful, either as a single growing ornamantal tree in a yard, or in groves.

P.S. Pam, I just "googled" Belt Woods" and found they have measured the trees. The tallest white oak is actually 143 feet. Just google "Belt Woods" and you can read all about it. I discovered this stand back in 1971, long before it had any publicity and long before any preservation efforts began. I also saw the north section before it was destroyed.

--Spruce

Sorry, Belt woods is just WEST of Bowie MD.

--Spruce

Spruce & Sherry: Thanks for this information. Spruce, I'm trying to visit places you recommend so I can see what you describe. You've spent so many years exploring and observing - you could write a book of walks or trails in the Mid-Atlantic area (at a minimum).

Sherry, I've heard you mention sourwood trees. When you don't expect it, you can make a discovery. When jogging with a friend, I noticed many tall, spectacular trees with brilliant scarlet leaves and berries. The trees were the same height as the pines and maples around them. They were huge sourwood trees, growing naturally about 8 miles from my house!! I couldn't believe it. I didn't have a camera - rats. Now I know they will survive and thrive here, if they are sited well, with some protection from the wind.

Here is a photo of a Nuttall oak seedling planted this spring - the leaves on some are just beginning to turn but this will give you a good idea of their color - on some trees, leaves are golden and red, before turning full red:

{{gwi:496786}}

The color on that nuttall oak is stunning, Pam!
I hadn't tried that type oak before, because the books I read said that shumard oak was better for the South than nuttall oak. My shumard oaks haven't grown much, though, so probably, once again, the books were wrong! Walmart usually sells nuttall oaks about 5' tall or so, so when the trees come in, I'll buy one or two of theirs - if they don't get any in, I'll order them when I order my white oaks in the early spring.
Hopefully, nuttall oak will color up as beautifully down here as it did for you. My area doesn't get much good fall color - except for a few trees like blackgum and sourwood, our leaves usually go from green to brown in fall.
Sourwood is strictly an understory tree here, with blooms only occurring on the parts of the tree that are exposed to the sun. I had a beautiful one that was growing rapidly before the hurricane. A tree (loblolly pine?) fell on it, so we had to top it off, giving it a very ugly look, plus, after Katrina took away many of the shade trees that were shading it, the new growth started dying back in the heat of summer. Last summer it did better, though, and, so, hopefully it can regain its former beauty in time. I've got another medium sized one that wasn't harmed by Katrina and another small one that's growing rapidly in the shade.
In Virginia, sourwood probably would like more sun, but I doubt it'd like full sun - whatever amount of sunlight those you saw are getting is the right amount!
Sherry

Spruce: I remember a post you wrote last year about a small grove of NS or white pine, I think on your WV land. Because they grow close together, you could walk inside the grove, look up, and feel a sense of awe. I don't know if you could create a similar effect with white oaks or other deciduous trees.

I also read an interesting idea at the Dawn Redwood Preserve (link below). "We will simulate old growth characteristics, such as a planted Âfairy ring ... People will walk on pathways created before the trees were planted, giving the effect of ancient Indian trails. The trails will open into pure groves of dawn redwoods with mixed forest in between."

I am trying to do something similar on a smaller, less systematic scale - planting groves of conifers with paths through the reforested area that is primarily deciduous trees. I need to sketch this out so I can stay on track! Too many ideas, not enough land or time!

Here is a link that might be useful: Dawn Redwood Preserve

Pam:

The small groups and the towering effect looking up is something that works best with conifers, especially those that grow straight with central trunks. My best examples are spruce, white pine, and perhaps the very best are with some of my larger and older groups of hemlock. The pattern of all the branches coming from the trunk at regular intervals is what helps create the sense of great height. These groups of trees when you look up between them can seem to be much, much taller than they really are. A wonderful visual effect.

White oaks especially, and some other hardwoods perhaps a little less so, are best for the forest cathedral effect because their branches arch upward in ways conifers generally don't do.

--Spruce

I do enjoy the cathedral look of older American Beech forests.

Spruce: I also remember you writing about a grove of bald cypresses - and how you would be able to lie down inside the grove and look at the sky through their spires. I was so inspired by that post, I planted my first grove - a bald cypress grove - not far from the house. I figured I would be up in years before the trees were tall enough to have spires. But we are also planting for the future.

jq: Where have you seen American Beech forests? I'm on the road with my work so I keep a running list of recommended places to visit.

I'm late joining this thread, but I also like white oak. Here's a nice one in its fall color a few blocks from my house:

{{gwi:496788}}

I planted some acorns from this tree in my yard a couple falls ago. Only one survived the rabbits before I caged it up. After two growing seasons, it's about 6 inches tall. This is in clay soil, full sun, with a large mulch ring around it. Nice fall color on that seedling! Hopefully it will pick up the pace next year.

Alex

Alex:

White oaks can be slow starters--have parience. It could take several years. One issue with trees starting slowly, and not just with white oaks--is soil. Here in Winchester the soil is of a type that makes many kinds of trees start slowly. I won't try to describe the specific aharacteristics of this soil, but I have had some trees, and not just seedlings, do nothing for 5 or 6 years, and then start to grow nicely

--Spruce

Pam: There is an old-growth American Beech forest in William B. Umstead State Park (Raleigh, Wake County, NC). You need a permit from the office to see them, but I hear they are gorgeous. There are some areas if you know where to look where I can find quite a few large beech stands (mostly in N. Raleigh). I hope this helps!

Down here, beech trees principally grow where white oaks grow, that is, on the bluffs close to creeks and rivers. I've never seen a pure beech forest, but there are some big ones mixed in with the other big oaks and mag grands at my favorite spot in the woods by Cypress Creek.
Sherry

Yes, beech trees! The finest stand of beech trees I have ever seen was in England, almost 30 years ago. I can't remember just where, but it was in a more southern part. But these beech trees (European beech, a different species) had very long straight trunks--perfectly clean, rising up to the crowns. I have never seen any beech groves like that here.

But in Rock Creek Park in D.C. there are some nice trees and/or small groups. Just above the bridge over the ravine on Ross Drive, on the west part, I think, are two or three really beautiful, tall straight beech trees--probably the best I have seen here in the USA. I have some really nice ones on my timberland, also. These trees take a long time to grow, much like white oaks, so beautiful mature stands are uncommon. But in the future there will be more and more beech trees. They are one kind of tree that deer don't like to browse, and they are also shade tolerant, so in areas where there is no clearcutting of forests, they will be on the increase. They also propagate readily from their roots, giving them another advantage. What they don't like is fire, so the fire suppression efforts in our forests also will work to their benefit. I love beech, but at some point they may take over too much.

--Spruce

Beech trees only grow in low lying areas around here, they're usually found with Swamp Chestnut Oak, Water Oak, Sugarberry, and Magnolias. I didn't even know we had many at all until I went to the state park down by Mobile Bay. I found lots of them there, some pretty huge.

Hard to go wrong with a Q. alba, one of my all-time favorite trees. They're not slow growers, on the whole, and they're remarkably adaptable. To say nothing of spectacular.

The best places I know of for nearly-pure stands of beech are in northern Ohio.

Wow - I actually enjoyed reading this thread! alabamatreehugger, you got my attention. I need to get on board and find out how to care for Oak acorns here in CT. Soil, light, heat, water. ect.

What sucks and is the only thing stopping me..who knows if I'll be in the property 10 years from now!

There are several other oaks that I really like. Swamp chestnut oak/q. michauxii and sand post oak/q. margaretta are two of them. Sand post oak isn't just a smaller version of regular post oak - the acorns are actually bigger than post oak, and the leaves are much denser - I think it's a coincidence that the leaves look similar. Swamp chestnut oak is a white oak that grows fast, has beautiful fall color and big, attractive acorns.
Another good oak I'd like to recommend is Compton's oak, a hybrid that reportedly occurred naturally somewhere in Louisiana, with the two parents being live oak/q. virginiana and overcup oak/q. lyrata. I've got several overcup and live oaks, and the Compton's oak has grown faster than either of them. The leaves are attractive looking, too.
Sherry

Concur with Sherry.

I am completely unfamiliar with swamp chestnut oak. I tried, not very persistently, I admit, to find where I could get some. I know Forest Farm doesn't offer it, and a number of other places I looked, although they offer lots of oaks, omit this one. Why??

It is not native this far north in VA, but comes close. If I could find this tree, does anyone have any experience growing it north of its natural range?

Sherry: can you tell me more about the fall color?

--Spruce

The fall color of the local SCOs isn't nearly as brilliant as that of the nuttall oak that Pam posted, Spruce, but then I imagine their fall color is a lot better farther north. Whenever I've driven through north MS in the fall, I've been amazed at how much better the leaf color is up there, so I imagine it'd be great in Virginia. Down here, SCO leaves turn partly red, while remaining partly green, then some of them turn brown, then they gradually drop off. I've seen pictures of them with much redder fall leaves, I assume farther north.

The leaves are beautiful mainly because of their shape and large size. I've got one chinkapin oak whose leaves look similar, but they're smaller, and the tree has been slower growing. One down side of SCO for some people might be that they can get eaten up in the fall by various oakworms, datanas and other moth caterpillars. Only my bluff oaks - another type of white oak - get chewed worse. Bluff oaks get skeletonized early in the year, as opposed to the SCOs, which get chewed later in the fall. If caterpillars don't bother your white oaks, they probably won't show up on any SCOs you plant. The water, post and red oaks that grow here in abundance don't get chewed up as badly as the bluff and SCO oaks. Still, they continue to grow and appear very healthy, and being a butterfly and moth lover, I don't mind the caterpillars.

I've found that the best way to grow SCOs is to start them from acorns, but this year I couldn't find a SINGLE acorn under any SCO or bluff oak, and I only found 3 acorns under one white oak! It's weird, because the water, red and post oaks have made so many it's hard to find a place to walk where acorns don't crunch under your feet.

The next best thing is to order yours from Pine Ridge Gardens in Arkansas. I've ordered from many a mail order nursery, and none send healthier, better packaged, or bigger trees for the money. Mail Order Natives in Florida is a close second, but their trees are smaller. Woodlander's in South Carolina sends trees about the size as Mail Order Natives, but, oddly, doesn't carry quercus michauxii, even though they offer a lot of oaks.
The only reason I can figure that so few nurseries carry it is that it's a southeastern oak, and most nurseries are in other parts of the country. That's too bad, though, because it's a very impressive tree.

I think I'm going to be very impressed with my Compton's oak, too - so far, it's a winner!
Sherry

pam - correction; Nuttall is a member of the red/black oak group.

I've got a couple of nice young F2 Compton oaks - they have pretty good red fall color for me - not quite as good as scarlet oak(q.coccinea), and some years the big Q.alba at the top end of the pond beats almost everything hands-down.
Swamp white oak is a nice tree, but in my plantings, it seems to get 'oak tatters' more than anything else - summer foliage is nice(when not diseased)and fall color is nothing to get excited about; muddy yellow at best, then brown.

I'm a huge fan of bur oaks - lack of appreciable fall color is their only shortfall - they're great the other 50 weeks of the year!

Lucky p - my Compton oak is evergreen, but then I guess yours are some sort of second generation cross, maybe back to q. lyrata?
Sherry

Morse sells SCO, as do some state nurseries.

Well here's the same white oak from above at 5 years (hound and large dog house for scale). I just found this old thread so I figured I'd update it.

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