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True fir ID

19 years ago

My parent's neighbor(Buckley WA) has this true fir, which he dug from the ground near Mt.St.Helens back in 02. Now, this tree does not in anyway resemble native true firs in that area or WA. It looks like a Balsam, Canaan, or Fraser. At one time he three but deer and dog urine took the other two. I've been indending to post this here for sometime.

Thanks.

{{gwi:640368}}
{{gwi:640370}}
{{gwi:640371}}

Comments (11)

  • 19 years ago

    Does look rather like Abies balsamea. Does this mean your rambo run (this thread!) went ahead, and your neighbour found it and dug it up?? ;-)

    Resin

  • 19 years ago

    Abies lasiocarpa. On young trees grown in sun, and on the leaders and upper limbs of older trees, the needles have sharp tips.This is sometimes erroneously attributed to cone bearing branches.

  • 19 years ago

    heh yes Resin, the neighbor is a London native, he participated in the Berlin Airlift, he's well into his 70s, and is one crazy bloke.:)

    The trees have bothered me for some time since they don't appear to be natives. It also beggs the question, who planted them there, a citizen, or the USFS? If it's the USFS, why? I'll have to call them.

    pinetree30, it's my understanding that Subalpine fir grow only a few inches per year and the needles are longer than A. balsamea. The tree pictured has 1'-16" growths from last year. It also, closely resembles my potted Canaan firs.

  • 19 years ago

    Just for reference.:)
    Caanan fir:
    {{gwi:640372}}
    Balsam fir:
    {{gwi:640373}}
    Fraser fir:
    {{gwi:640374}}

    They're all potted but you get the idea.:)

  • 19 years ago

    Subalpine Fir can grow faster when the conditions are right. But this plant doesn't have the needle arrangement that I've seen for the species (including similarly-aged young plants).

    "who planted them there, a citizen, or the USFS?"

    Aha, the implication of that is that USFS staff are not citizens? :-)

    One other point particular to Mount Saint Helens - apparently, Subalpine Fir doesn't occur there, because of previous historical eruptions: "Prior to the 1980 eruption, timberlines on Mount Saint Helens were odd, because they were exceptionally low (about 4400 feet), and composed largely of species seldom found at upper timberline  for example, Lodgepole Pine (the dominant species), Western White Pine, Douglas-fir, Black Cottonwood, Noble Fir and Western Hemlock. Unlike the relatively stable alpine timberlines elsewhere in the Cascades, the forest on Saint Helens was rapidly advancing upward." (Arno & Hammerly, Timberline).

    It would be worth asking the neighbour exactly where he got the plants . . . let me guess it was adjacent to a visitor center car park or other such site where trees would be planted.

    Resin

  • 19 years ago

    A. lasiocarpa can grow lots faster in the Cascades than it usually does in the Rockies, and looks quite different in those locales. And conditions of cultivation can really jack up growth rates of almost any conifer.
    The post was pretty vague about location, and did not imply the origin was actually on Mt. St. Helens. If it is a native Cascades fir, I'll stick with lasiocarpa.

  • 19 years ago

    If it's a subalpine fir how come the needles are pointed and don't have any silver on top?

  • 19 years ago

    Lasiocarpa needles can be very pointy on leaders and upper branches. That's true of many firs and is usually mistakenly attributed to being characteristic of cone-bearing branches. Upper needle surfaces can be quite dark, giving this species a dark green appearance, certainly not a silvery look.

  • 19 years ago

    Looks like the whole plant is pointy. Branching also uncharacteristic. I think it was planted rather than a wild native tree.

  • 19 years ago

    That's always possible. I think we are all operating on the assumption that this is wild and a Cascades native, but the actual site info is vague and non-specific.

  • 19 years ago

    The trees were taken from the side of a road near St. Helens. For the exact location, I'll ask. How it got there was only speculation on my part. I was also thinking out loud if USFS was reforesting/experimenting with non-native true firs.

    Resin, with out a "wilding" permit taking trees from government land is illegal. Taking them from a visitors center would be down right comical.:)

    Pinetree30, there's an Abies lasiocarpa down the street from me that doesn't resemble the tree above but is consistant with these yahoo pics.

    abies lasiocarpa pics
    Anyways, thanks for your expert opinions.:)