I can't imagine, but if it's in the CSSA journal, I would guess it's a valid method. I personally use Eleanor's VF-11 - it's primary claim is to keep the pH in balance. I've been very happy with the results.

Denise in Omaha

the article says that when its lightning the ph of the rain can get to 4.0 thats why after a rain the plants are so green and come alive. they show pictures comparing. joe

I think what the journal said was to add it to water. All the first hand reports I've had are all positive, did the artile tell you how much vinagar per gallon? I don't believe they said right out of the bottle. 6PH is good as well, just don't drink the vinegar, nor give full strength to the plants, LOL Folks you must use judgement. None of us know by mail, what the other knows. We all take it for granted. Norma

I found a bag of lava briquettes at a Home Depot and crushed them to managable size. I saw some cacti thriving in a photo from South America growing in volcanic soil. This seems to add just enough acid to water. I also collect rain water. I add a few drops of cacti fertilizer to the water. I have a PH tester, slightly acidic. Use it for all my plants. They seem to like it.

Haven't read that article yet.

Sagebrush

I have the article in pdf, i'll have to upload it later.

Got this meesage from a friend who uses vinegar.
"I have used the vinegar on everything, including caudiciforms and tropicals with great results. I even used it on my geraniums in pots outside, worked great. Hey, do a trial with some of your seedlings or cuttings...plant A with acidic water....plant B reg. water."

I'm going to try the last sentence.

it says to use a tablespoon per five gallons of water. joe

So using Joe's ratio above, would equal

1/2 teaspoon per gallon,

or 1/4 teaspoon per 1/2 gallon (which is my measure, I use 1/2 gallon watering jugs).

1/4 teaspoon per 1/2 gallon sounds very little, but I'll try it & see. Do they say anything abt what kind of vinegar to use? I assume it's white vinegar or apple cider vinegar.

Thanks for the conversion, Karen. (I also use 1/2 gallon milk jugs - keep about 10 of them full at all times...) And yes, I, too, would like to know - white or apple vinegar? I guess I'd assume white...

Denise in Omaha

Definitely use distilled white vinegar. Cider vinegar still has a significant amount of sugar that will build up in the soil, and ultimately rot, making for a rather unpleasant odor.

FWIW, there is nothing special about vinegar (acetic acid) for this application. Pretty much any acid would suffice, assuming you took the time to work out the correct pH (molality). Since vinegar is the the most widely available acid in bulk form for most consumers, it makes it the default choice. However, if you've got access to it, and are half way decent at chemistry, hydrochloric would probably be the ideal acid to use for altering the pH of your plant water.

I think the effect of vinegar addition would depend a lot on the alkalinity of your water. High alkalinity water would require a considerable amount of acid to lower its pH, whereas very pure water will acidify quickly with just small additions of acid. Simply adding a standard amount to all water sources doesn't sound like a good idea. I would like to read the article, though.

All the master growers that I know are using it with great results, the soil I use is balanced, I water with hard water, and I grow my plants hard, I don't give much water during the winter months, unless the pots are bone dry. They get their water from the rain, or humidity. I would think that most of us have vinegar in the kitchen, so it's handy and no need to run out to the store and get it. It is safe to use. If is works way not use it. No need for special kits, gadgets for measurements, I'm not a chemist, this is just a hobby for me, thanks for that great explanation. Norma

Hi all. The problem with hard water is the buid-up of soluble lime in the growing medium.This tends to raise the pH to the point where certain nutrients (iron,boron) become unavailable to the plants.This may lead to yellowing or, in the case of boron,'capping'.South American cacti (Rebutias,Lobivias in particular) are very sensitive to this.It looks as if the growing point of the plant becomes corky, and this is often mis-interpreted as spider-mite damage.pH value between 6-6.5 is best for absorbtion of all nutritional elements.We run a commercial nursery and our water is pretty hard;ph 8.We use sulphuric acid(battery acid) in highly concentrated form(96%).This stuff is a very dangerous product and will burn a hole in your hand no problem.We put half a liter = 500 ml)in 8 cubic meters of water (8000 liters = 8 Tons).This combines with the lime to form gypsum,witch is precipitated.All this is repeated every two weeks during the growing season...without it our plants look dull and soon they develop the above mentioned symptoms. T.

Joscience.
Your idea "hydrochloric would probably be the ideal acid" is totally wrong and a danger for the plants! Our plants (except some Mesembs) don't like chlorides at all. Also measuring it out correctly is rather difficult as it has no buffer quality.
One of the best for this purpose would be phosphoric acid, but that is more expensive than acetic or sulfuric acid.

Jordi

BTW Most of my plants haven't been repotted since 9 years (though using water containing 500 ppm (=0.5%) dissolved salts) and the content of accumulated salts in the soil reached lethal scale. Therefore I also started to water my plants with 'vinegarized' water recently and most of them plumped up and started new growth almost immediately.

Jordi: I will definately concede to you if chloride is harmful to succulents. You certainly know more about plants than me. I thought HCl would make a good acid for this because it is by far the cheapest, it is readily available to consumers, and is much safer to handle than sulfuric acid. Clearly I overlooked the all important aspect of how it would affect the plants.

The idea of HCl being difficult to measure because of a lack of a buffering effect isn't quite right either though. For all of the strong monoprotic acids (hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric), they completely disassociate at any concentration yielding no buffer effect. Clearly we know sulfuric works with relative ease since Tunilla has been using it some time. Of course, if you actually were providing the conjugate base by adding the appropriate salt, than you would end up with a truly buffered solution. Acetic acid does have some buffering effect since it is a weak acid, and both the disassociated and undisassociated forms exist in equilibrium in an aqueous solution. Also, unless you are storing the prepared solution in an open container for a significant period of time, I don't see how a buffered solution would be of any benefit.

Hi all.I have used phosphoric acid or even nitric acid in the past.These two will of course affect the NPK balance,wich doesn't matter so much for phosphorus,but calls for adjustment on the nitrogen in the fertiliser.
I'm especially glad to read the comments by those who have used vinegar.It's easily available,not expensive or dangerous and clearly,it works.(all this is becoming rare these days...) T.

I just use a 1/4 tsp. per gal. I don't want to overdo it. A little is better than none, My soil is pretty neutral I mix my own. It does make the difference, I water mostly by hand, so not to let any water sit on leaves, it takes me all week to do so. My benches are 20 feet long and 2 flats wide. I can hold only 25 pots per flat, yesterdy I just found a new systemic which will save me a lot of worry. Norma

see link below

Here is a link that might be useful: Alkalinity pdf

I get a document not available message when I click on that.

been using vinegar on all my plants for a month now and I can see such a difference,alot of the caudexes turned a nice green, seems to make a pleasent difference. joe

I, too, would like to see the article. Any chance of trying it again, Caudex1?

Denise in Omaha

I use 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 coarse sand and 1/3 perlite for my cacti mix.Have good results,espesialy Mammillarias. Should test for acidity. 1 cup cacti mix and 1 cup of distilled water,shake and test. would that be a good ratio for a reading? fRANK

If you want the Alkalinity pdf email me from 'my page', I can share it that way but for some reason it won't let me post here for everyone to see.

hi all, could you use Miracid fertilizer??
linda