Actually, sand is usually a bad idea. It tends to compact the soil and retains too much water. Instead, use 10-20% fine redwood bark, and the balance pumice, perlite, gravel, turface, etc. with a particle size between 1/8 and 3/8 inches. Perlite is probably the least expensive option in small quantities, but it is super light and tends to float. On the organic side, avoid peat, it also retains too much water.

The important thing is too have excellent drainage and be light and porous. Commercial cactus and succulent mixes are often rich in peat, and retain much too much water. Keep the organics below 25% and don't use sand. The inorganic component can be any number of different materials.

There are as many ideas about the 'ideal' mixture as there are growers, but my basic mix is 1 part commercial mix that is 45% pumice, and 4-5 parts gravel, pumice, etc.

Happy growing!

Brad

Brad, coarse construction sand, not beach sand, nor play ground/box sand. Construction gravel it great as long it is washed. (Home Depot) 40% - 50% pumice and only 10% organic. We use red wood for our organics. The more humidity the less organic, and the less often you shoudd water, it you don't want mold, be sure to allow it to get a lot of air circulation , let the mix dry out before watering again, and it may take 10-14 days depending on the weather conditions. Using glay pots is will dry out faster than plastic. \Just something that you can go on. I live in a hot dry valley, this is my mix. The Huntington grows their plants outside, in a hot San Grabriel Valley, where there used to be orange threes. Clay like soil, lots of rocks, we grow them there on raised beds, that drain rapidily out in open run. We grow them in plastic pots that are small 4" 3.5" wide in this mix. In the summer we water once a week, and if really hot we cool them off with water as well, we don't want to fry. In the winter we cut back on water, because they can get frost damage and the leaves turn gray or white and become brittle. I hope this you enough information so you have some judgement for your own collection. The plants all need the same conditions no matter where you live and we as care takers must provide this for them. Just a tip don't waste your money on a water meter, don't put your finger down into the soil, use a chop stick or a pencil leave 5 min. and see it is damp. Guess what if it still damp don't water, don't soil dry out comepletely, mealies just love dried out soil and roots. Norma

I've seen construction sand used as playground sand before. The results are a mixture of depressing and hilarious.

This is probably the one that you are looking for...coarse Silica sand. It can usually be found at some Pool supply or construction/masonry supply warehouse. I buy mine from the company below in a #50 lb. bag. Seems like a lot but actually the bag isn't very big at all, just heavy. I pay around $8.50 for a 50 lb bag.

You can call the #800 to find if there's a location that sells it near you...
{{gwi:30705}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Standard Sand and Silica Co.

The only garden supply places around me are Home Depot, Lowes, and Walmart. I've been thinking of using regular potting soil and then adding something to make it loose. Since I can't find sand in a smaller quantity, should I use pumice or perlite or even vermiculite? Maybe a combination of those? I'm still not totally sure

J

See if you can find a place that sells small (25 or 50 lb) bags of DG (decomposed granite). This is usually available at the same place that sells rocks and bricks. I find a mix of DG and native soil works well for me. My native soil is mostly clay and sand. Of course there aren't many nutrients in this mix, so I add a few drops or grains of fertilizers in my potted succulents during the growing season.

I've posted this before on other threads but anyway here goes again. A good source of pumice is a product called Dry Stall. It can be bought at many animal feed stores. It is commonly used in horse stalls to soak up moisture. It is pure pumice and particle size about 1/8". It comes in 40 lb. bags. It should be washed through a screen to get rid of the fines. I have been using it for a number of years as a major part of my soil mix for both bonsai and succulents.

I just got a bag of Dry Stall. $9.00 for $40 pounds.(at a feed store) It says right on the bag it is good to use for cactus and succulents! And it is suggested in a book I just got.

JoJo,

You're not able to get pumice?

Not that there's anything wrong, but Dry Stall is for the rest of us who can't get pumice!

I remember all of the pumice I bought in San Diego came from AZ. I just thought you'd be able to get it where you are.

Although I've used Dry Stall (DS) only for a little while, I found horticultural pumice to be the sine qua non of the porosity-producing products for a good C&S mix.

Perhaps DS and pumice are the same in operation, but I don't have the data yet to theorize yet. The kind I get up here is like pumice but isn't.

Good Morning cactusmcharris,

Well, I called around a few places and no one knew what I was talking about when I asked for pumice.

Now oddly enough, this bag I have came from San Clemente CA. lol..

Here's a quote from the book I have.. It's title is Crazy About Cacti and Succulents... Brooklyn Botanic Garden All-Region Guides

"I blend two parts pumice (sold widely as Dry Stall and found in farm stores cateriing to horse owners)"

so I figured I bought pumice.

Now the bag says this....

Dry stall is an ideal soil medium due to it's ability to absorb moisture, aerate soil, and improve drainage.

It is a naturally occurring light weight volcanic aggregate-

So, did I buy pumice?

Thought I did from past posts here and what the book said, and on the bag.

JoJo

JJ,

My tongue was firmly in cheek when I wrote that - yes, I'd say you got pumice. When I used to buy pumice in San Diego (Hanson Aggregates) you could get a big bag (40-60 lbs) for about $7, and it always came from some mined area in Arizona, which was to be closed in several years - this was some years ago, so maybe it's closed, maybe not.

jmerk,

"I've been thinking of using regular potting soil and then adding something to make it loose. Since I can't find sand in a smaller quantity, should I use pumice or perlite or even vermiculite? Maybe a combination of those? I'm still not totally sure"

The only thing I would add to regular potting soil for any succulents, cactis, even citrus, is the perlite if your plants require good drainage..

Adding pumice or vermiculite will only cause your soiless mix to be more water retentive, and cause your plants to rot. Both pumice and V are used to retain moisture. Regular potting soil already holds to much water, way too long, with the amount of peat they put in it, at least for my growing area...

If you want to rid the peat entirley by straining, then you could use the pumice to substitute the peat for moisture purposes...

Hoping everyone is doing well.

Mike..:-)

Mike,

I think you've got something backwards - pumice is used for better porosity, and it is superior to perlite in that regard. I can assure you that pumice is the first choice for many in their soil mix and it does not contribute to a lack of drainage - quite the opposite in fact.

Jeff, I think Mike's talking about moisture retention. If one were to add Pumice to a potting soil, the Pumice would most likely stay moist for much longer than desired. Although the Pumice wouldn't collapse, the pores would clog and eventually impede drainage in that regard.

I use Pumice for moisture retention in all of my mixes, but I balance it with less porous Perlite and non-porous quartz gravel.

Josh

Josh,

I guess, after rereading Mike's post and reading your post, that it's all location, location, location. In SouCal we used it for drainage, and it performed like a champion.

Oh, it certainly does improve drainage! And it is an excellent ingredient in soil-less mixes. No disagreement there!

Mike was speaking to Jmerk's suggestion about adding it to regular potting soil - "I've been thinking of using regular potting soil and then adding something to make it loose."

I wouldn't recommend bagged potting soil at all. I'd use equal parts Pumice and Perlite for a mix before I used a bagged peat-based soil.

Josh

HD, Lowe's all will sell torn bags for around 50cents or less. I got 4 bags of decomposed granite last year for 25cents! Ask the manager of the garden dept. Even at full price a bag of builders sand or dc is There is a cactus/citrus mix soil at Home Depot I've used in the past with good results. I mix some SAND in it for the cacti and use it straight for the citrus in pots. I grow everything in sand, I live on a barrier island and that's what my soil is. I dig the sand out of the backyard but that's not an option for everyone. Heck you can almost build a sand castle back there. Only big problem is that it eats organic material as fast as you can put it out. And water runs straight down.

Jack, thanks for the tip on drystall. The only pumice I could find is the stuff I pick up on the beach! The feedstore in Texas city has this. The bf is big into bonsai & has been looking for pumice to make his mix. It's a race at our house to see if the plant becomes bonsai or I get it in the ground before he sees it.

Tally HO!

I don't disagree that it does not improve drainage, what I said was that it keeps the soil much wetter than you think mixed with peat, and especially "soil".....That is why many use pumice, turface, or the like alone with their plants because it retains much moisture..
I can grow jades in pumice alone for over a week or two without watering...Add peat or soil to the mix, and they'll die..

For "me" as I have explained before, it's a poor choice to put this stuff in potting "soil" if ones in looking for a soil to "dry" out in a timely matter, in most cooler growing zones,along with porosity..

You are right..Location, location, probably..
I lost several dozen of plants in the past using pumice in "potting soil", the very mix that might use if he doesn't get my point, and will never do it again...
The mix stayed wet, very wet, to long, because pumice although pouros, "does" hold moisture, more than one thinks, and added to peat,it was a disaster for me and many others in my climate...

Note..:I have pumice still wet in a bag from 2 months ago..lol

You are right though, maybe some would be able to get away with doing this is very hot climates..I tend to think those areas are much more forgiving than ours.

I "personally" use it in "non" peat base mixes for great drainage and porosity, and for moisture, and have no need for peat, or soil for my succulents mixes..

I don't think I have it backwards. lol
It is just that my plants died from that combo he is thinking about using.

In fact, I would NEVER use potting "soil" for anything as Josh stated.. I too use a pumice, bark, and crushed granite, or perlite mix which holds great moisture and is very porous. Sometimes sand, the kind Pug suggested. My succulents love the mixes now. Ridded of soil and peat.

Thanks for the insight cactusmarris...How are you by the way? Well I hope..

Hoping everyone is well too;-)

Mike

No soil/peat, but use DG, pumice, and perlite. I haven't seen DG or pumice, but I'll start looking. Thanks for all the help guys

J

Heya Jeff,

You have no Pumice? Can you hear me laughing???

I still have about half the pumice I'd been gifted. Have wondered what I'd do when my pumice supplies ran out some day. So now I know about Dry Stall.

You guys don't know, this fellow above has been known as the Prince of Pumice. Between him, Norma, this Forum & Pumice I learned a whole lot about growing Succulents & have done pretty nicely w/ them indoors in NYC. Some even on the window sill above radiators, open windows, heat on, not the choicest of settings right now.

I grow Sans, Gasteria, Haworthia, Aloes, ZZ, Euphorbias, Crassulacae, CCs & Hoyas, lots o'Hoyas (they love orchid bark mix & pumice). Can't imagine my plants w/out pumice.

cactusmcharris,
Thanks for clearing up what I bought. After making hubby rush out and get it for me, I'd hate to have to tell him it's the wrong stuff..LOL!

I found a cactus/succulent mix that I think is working pretty good.
It came from a nursery that grows native AZ. plants and a few others. They use it for their stuff.

It has bark, and maybe lava rock, very small.. some organic material, but from what I can tell, no peat. I do add some pumice and pearlite. From all I've read here, I feel it needs a little something added.

The water runs out quicky, and so far everything is healthy and happy.

Aloes are blooming like crazy and producing pups. Other plants are showing new growth and keeping good color.

Time will tell. But as you speak of location, we are a pretty dry climate. So I feel it will be O.K.

It's not a brand found in big box stores.

This nursery hires handicaped people to help pot up plants, so I like to support them any way I can!

Mike,

Begging your pardon, but you spoke of pumice experience that was diametrically opposed to mine - so it's a learning experience for both of us. I hadn't known that pumice could have those qualities. BTW, you can dry out your pumice and use it dry in a mix - I always washed mine (to free it of the heavy dust that accompanied the shoveled loads).

A lot of plants are fine with a lot of organic matter in their mix, so it's a bit of a learning curve, but as you said it's better not to have a lot of it for many plants.

When I first began growing plants, many of my C&S friends, and not a few nursery people, used a mix of 50% SuperSoil and 50% pumice - this mix works great for most plants that are in as much sun as they could use and didn't have to be watered every day. It was, in a few words, ideal for the plants, or most of them.

As I grew, at least in my mind, more sophisticated (and I suppose a few things were learned), my mixes grew more mixed - bone meal, decomposed granite sand, top dressing gathered from ant hills and desert plateaus, coir, top soil, #4/#5 gravel (found at roofing companies), along with the constant pumice, made up my potted planting mix.

It's a constant refinement as the plants grow (or don't) and you learn as you put time/effort into This Thing of Ours that that Haworthia truncata loves a mix of 50/50 coir and pumice, with a little dirt thrown in (nourishing its tuberous roots), while the Aloe aculeata likes its soil lean, because it's in a big pot that sits on cement that gets warm during the day and hence grows a lot, allowing it to be repotted every 6 months, and the Kalanchoe beharensis, surviving quite well in second-use soil and what's swept up from the floor, can have a lot of organic matter in its pot.

I have never found pumice to have much, if any, water retention qualities - if I wanted water retention, I would use more soil in the mix. But again, this was in a warm-almost-all-of-the-time and sunny-almost-always climate - your experience will vary.

JMerk,

I was lucky enough to know a guy who knew a guy who had 40 acres out in the high desert E of San Diego - his land had reefs and shoals of decomposing granite. I just lugged pieces and parts from there and processed them further with a sledge, as needed, and consecutively-finer pieces of hardware cloth and screen. I made a sieve out of wire and 2x4s that made the chore more efficient.

Josh,

I see what you mean - one would have to improve the porosity tremendously if you're using regular potting soil.

Karen,

I can, too. At the rate you're using it, you're good for a few more years, n'est ce pas?

BC does have some volcanic areas, so I wonder if a jaunt among them will yield some wild stuff. If I understand correctly, pumice comes out of the volcano in much larger pieces (about the size of an average garbage can) and is processed to the size we know and love.

I'm just wild 'bout pumice, and pumice is wild about me.....

Jojo,

So your hubby's a cactus spouse, or does he grow them, too? It's important for him to feel involved, so you might want to gift him with some cuttings. And as to your mix, the proof's in the pudding - if you have happy plants, you're doing all right.

Cactusmcharris,

Thankyou for that insight and for your time..You are greatly appreciated here..It is always awsome to see ideas and experiences through the eyes of another. A diiferent approach and way of looking at things.

By the way, you have helped me alot here!

Mike--:-)

I agree, location, location, location. Though sometimes it's season, season, season. I've had to move cacti/succulents in the house during our monsoon rains. One of the epis might die, I'm doing cuttings this week to try and save some of it. Yet no problem with most cacti/succulents in the ground. I'm not sure about pumice with the cacti. Even with bonsi Jim has had to modify what he uses, regular bonsai mix dries out way to fast and the plants with their little root systems can't handle it.

I'll be moving the hoyas in tonight also. I grow them in a mix with perlite added and in shade. They never need any supplemental watering unless we are in a severe drought.

Pumice comes out of the volcano in all sizes, I find it washed up on the beach in sizes from pea gravel to one large chunk about the size of a large grapefruit. It floats forever and circles the globe. Too bad we can't find out where it drifted from, that would make Curt happy, he could prove his drift theories. I'm still looking for lego toys, they should in theory be showing up on our beaches by now.

We've all experimented over the years and have our favorite mixes. Just experiment in your climate using ideas from everyone. You just never know what will do the trick for you. I've totally changed what some of my plants are in from suggestions on gardenweb forums, sometimes with great results and other times with tragic results. If all else fails I plant it in the yard! It does help to be semi-tropical with a micro-climate.
Maybe I'll try a jade as you suggest, they are one plant I have a terrible time with, they always seen to rot. Of course the humidity may factor in there also.
Stay warm ya'll the cold fronts are starting to roll in regular now.
Tally HO!

I am not ready for the COLD fronts for sure beachplant!

It is a whopping "70" degrees today here in Massachusetts, and then 30's by Saturday..:-(

You have a wonderful day!

Were 70 here today too! lol!

I'm with Mike, want summer back already! LOL! I don't like cold and were mild here..lol

We have a front moving in this weekend too. possible rain by monday with it.

Yours truly at The Bin of Drainage Divine - yes, the dust's bad enough to warrant a bandanna. That's an official shoveling shirt being worn, too.

Good Morning Cactusmcharris,
Well I guess you could say hubby is a cactus spouse, and summer garden..lol!

No, he doesn't grow them. I do include him in everything. He loves to go with me to pick out new plants. We had a blast at Arid lands, and he spent more than me. LOL!

He picked out a Euphorbia pentops, because it looked like an alien..lol!

After christmas will be a trip to Miles 2 go. Were all looking forward to that!

I show him stuff I want to order before ordering and see if he wants anything.

He's good about helping when I ask.. But doesnt volunteer much..lol!

My son is a huge part of this too.

He has gardened with me since he was 3. And now he has his own succulents to care for. He gets all the pups and I buy him a plant or two when we go places.

He even seaches the net for care info. He's 12 now.

So I guess it's an all around family thing. :)

Cactusmcharris, LOVE the photo...thanks for posting!!

Jojo...that's so cool that your 12 yr old son is interested in plants and even more so he loves them enough to search the net for its care info. Great kid!!

BTW, I hear you about DH not wanting to volunteer, mine's the same way, will help when asked...but NO volunteering,lol...but I can't blame him, he is not a plant person. That would be like me volunteering to go fishing,lol...

Puglvr1,

Thanks.. :) He is a great kid! We were at arid lands awhile back. He started asking questions about Sansaverias.
One of the people there took him on a private tour of the back area for growing off limits to customers. Next thing I know, he comes out with a free one to take home!

my guess is it was the guys only way to get him to stop asking questions...ROFL! He sure is proud of that plant.:)

I got an order last week that came with a free gift. So I gave him the gift and thanked the owners of the co. and told them I gave it to my son. (Kara Nursery)

They were so pleased to hear a child liked plants. well I ordered again right away (loved the plants!) and the next gift in the box had a note on it for my son! I told him he had to share the pups! LOL!!!

My hubby is not big on the care of the plants..which like you I understand.. but he does enjoy seeing them and the changes they go through. We he get's home from work I rush out and take him on tours around the yard..LOL!

Now when it comes to fishing, I pout if I cant' go..LOL!!
:)

I have a friend who is a master grower, no bugs, no deaths, her plants grow in pumice only.
Growing only in pumice may be a stunner for many of you. I use the Huntington mix, the grow fantastic plants, and yes they have a schedule for watering and fertilizing. It works for them, they are professiionals. Plants are not kept damp all the time, they flower profusily or they won't sell. KZ Aloe will be available starting April 1

Hi all. Growing plants in pure pumice (or any other inert medium for that matter) is one of the methods known as soilless cultivation.It requires constant fertilising,so the pots or trays must stand on tables wich can be flooded and drained in order to re-cycle the nutrient solution.
Overhead watering with nutrient-solutions without re-cycling is both wasteful and highly polluting. T.

Sometimes you have to be clever and think of odd things you can use for your mix. You can buy poultry grit that is granite, but make sure it is the granite kind, in small quantities at feed stores. Also you can find fine pine bark at pet stores marketed as reptile bedding. I'm not sure I could find pumice here, and builders sand is delivered in a dumptruck.