That stinks..I get 10 times the amounts of roots in 4 pots when purchased from Dennis Dodge. That really stinks. Quick story. Approx. 3 years ago I purchased a 5" caliper Acer platanoided for a customer. While at the nursery here in NH. I hand picked the best one, brillant red leaves, gorgeous crown. A spectacular tree. Installed it properly or course. Soil ammendments and all that jazz. This was on a friday by the way. Monday rolls around. I go by to check up on it and I noticed at the top the leaves are starting to wrinkle. I check the moisture level... everything!! PERFECT. By next Monday the tree is dead as a door nail. My client spent with me approx 1900.00 to have us put the tree in. I warrantee the tree of course. We go to dig it up and I have LESS roots than you have. I swear. I should of took a pic. The wholesale nursery were I purchased it from gave me another. Thank God. I talked w/Marty Brooks as ACS meeting. All he does is sell old specimens through out the country. Every single one of his trees is dug by hand. All though he is dying breed. It is the right way to do it. Roots can go every which way and unless you have x-ray vision you don't know. He even uses bio-degradable burlap. So all have to do is remove the top portion. He said it works perfectly. Those are my 2 cents.

Moral of story: always it is the ones you most want to survive, the ones you can't replace easily, that will die. I bought a Chamaecyparis Alaska in the spring - wierd thing, never seen one for sale around here before. Planted a dozen or so conifers this spring. One died. Which one? Don'tcha know?

KarinL

Those roots imply stress on me. Next time you get one of these 'gems' - dig a hole smaller than the rootball and mash it in with cowboy boots while holding a beer and jumping up and down. Then whiz on it to provide constant nitrogen.

Dax

Dax,
Could you please provide more details on your planting method? SPecifically, does diet prior to whizzing on the tree make any difference? Does it have to be first voided urine in the morning or will any random urine sample do? Since bladder capacities vary so much is volume important?
I would really appreciate it if you could provide the details as I have a P. pungens 'Walnut Glen' I need to get in the ground.

Ok - I've been tricked here. Dave emailed with seriousness in his tone that I needed to answer a question from, "kvolk" who everyone including kvolk knows is someone I commonly like to confuse myself into thinking I know this person.

To answer your question - it's the style of boot that's most important. A boot can hold beer, one's foot, and most importantly it has a solid sole for transplanting ones weight including ammending the balance needed that any ordinary beer-drinking acrobat of the trade is already aware of.

Potency of whiz is something I am not comfortable with discussing.

Dax

So Dax, would I be correct in saying that the results of the potency taste test was inconclusive?

Hey Dave, that *really* stinks. Very sorry to hear your story. Many of us have been through this. It's total BS in my opinion.

We just bought a Fraiser fir, about 3 or 4 feet tall. A really nice and very healthy looking specimen. It was in a plastic ontainer and weighed a ton. So when we plant it, we find that many of the roots have been hacked off, including one that was about 1 inch wide! Made me very mad to see such a beautiful tree mangled like that just to get it into the container. It was on clearance for 50% off so we couldnt return it. We've planted it anyway, hoping the roots will grow enough to get it through the fall and winter.

I've read this same thing from many members of this forum. I guess unless you either grow it from seed or hand dig the tree yourself, you just never know what you are getting when others dig up these trees.

Best of luck.

Dave

Imagine a fat man bouncing whiz off his boots in broad daylight.

That's a cowboy baby...

Dax

Ok, I am almost afraid to ask how a 'cowgirl' would proceed with such a planting!

Dave, sorry to hear about the demise of your "pet" conifer. I'm not a big fan of B&B either, for the very same reason. I have to admit though, at certain times I can't resist the temptation, when I find something bigger that you don't see every day. The P.p. 'Ogon Janome' that I posted pictures of, early this spring, is looking pretty bad. I'm thinking about digging it up, washing off the roots and moving it to a different spot in the Fall. That's assuming it makes it that long. I'm almost affraid to see what kind of roots it has because it came balled and burlapped in that heavy, nasty clay soil. I guess it's my "pet" conifer.
As far as the rest of you go, you crack me up. I laughed out loud several times while reading the responses.
Have a great week, Dan

Are you going to wash off that clay, Dan? I'm thinking about whether to dig up my Sequoiadendron g. "Pendula" which I planted last summer in a ball of clay as I didn't want to bare-root it at that time - it's doing just peachy, though, so I hate to disturb it. I guess it's an easier decision if the plant's not doing well.

I'm hoping no one will mind this deviation from the previous gripping topic...

KarinL

KarinL, if your Sequoiadendron b. 'Pendula' is "doing just peachy" that tells me the roots have moved on to better soil. Sounds like you got a good dig on the root ball. Better left alone.

Dan, sounds like your 'Ogon Janome' is suffering from a bad dig. I would leave it till spring and see if it bounces back.
I have found out over the years that if a B&B conifer shows stress in the 1st year planting and doesn't recover by next spring there is a termite in the wood pile so to speak. You know what I mean. In simpler terms sooner or later it will be toast. Count on it.

To all you other guys who chimed in, I am glad you had fun with this post. No need to be serious all the time.

Dave

Dave, It was planted Spring '06, would you still wait until Spring '08? It looked great all last year and this Spring, then definately took a turn for the worse. If I move it, it will be to a more protected site. I figure since its a pine, it's got a chance, though it may be a slim one. I'll try to post a picture of it next Spring and hopefully my post will read "Miracle Recovery" and not "R.I.P.",though I realize it will more likely be the latter rather than the former.

Dan, Not knowing what kind of pine you have and the issues it is contending with and educated guess is all I can offer after you post a photo.

Is needle drop is occurring all over the conifer or do you have limb die back? Why do you think it needs protection? Was it potted or B&B?

Considering the time frame 1-1/2 years before taking a turn I would suspect something else other then whacked roots.

Post a new thread with a photo so everybody can chime in.

Dave

Dave, I was responding to your comment, "Sounds like your 'Ogon Janome' is suffering from a bad dig". Sorry for the confusion. This was the pine I was referring to and it was B&B.Didn't mean to put you on the spot with limited info. I've pretty much decided what I'm going to do with it. I'll post some before and after pics, next Spring if it makes it. Thanks, Dan

P.S. Pinus parviflora 'Ogon Janome' (suppose P.p. wasn't a very good abbreviation) Have a great week, Dan

The tree was still alive WTF? Hell, you could have shipped it to me instead of killing it!

"WTF" What does that mean in conifer terms? Please be a little more specific.

Yep, everything is alive till it dies. I probably jumped the gun by 1-2 weeks. It was time to move on.

The 'Silberlocke' is trash but I got and old bridge I can ship to you. I don't know how long you can drive on it but it's yours.

You have a nice day.

Dave

I hate strange abbreviations. Just write people. No fancy foo foo junk or items you think the whole world understands or mind-reads for that matter such as this example of: HLGTHCOR&UC which to me means "anything" when I read other people who do this (I realize when and everytime I begin to appreviate that people won't be on their toes to understand my lack of word placement - so I don't do it. It's that plain and simple.) _ but it actually means to those with schizophrenia: HIDDEN lake GArdeNS The HARper COLLECTION of Rare & Unusual Conifers. I agree with Dave. I had to stop in the middle of a thought and waste my time trying to figure what that meant as well, so ...... what the heck?

I'm not siding with Dave on this one or anyone. I did that one time. I write for my ownself.

That root system is and was trash.

Later.

WTF= Whack the Fir? I'll have to admit tho Dave, that tree did look like it had some sort of life left. But I also agree with letting a tree die with dignity, meaning cut it down (or pull it up) before it's a brown clump of tinder. Judging by those roots, there's no way that tree makes it anyway.

Dax- Here's a link for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Acronyms

I realize I'm going to get hammered for saying these things.

So come get me! :)

Dax

Sorry tsugajunkie,

Still had my old message on the screen.

timing on my part a miss hit.

Dax

Acronyms List for me.

I-----think not.

Dax

Sorry Dax, just thought it might help. Maybe I should have named the link Pseudolingo acroconym ;-)

tj

That's a handy list, tj. For those of us who read them from time to time!

KarinL

Thanks, I will have a nice day.

Just seems silly to toss out a perfectly good tree. It also seems to be a bit ridiculous atempting to grow a true fir in that part of the country then blame it's failure on the seller.

coulda, shoulda, whoulda...

Sorry Wadet. I blew up in my own face. I was silly thinking I was going to control HOW folks WRITE when I've done it myself ;)

peace everyone.

Dax

Try growing a tree without any roots. You just don't get it do you. WTF. Is that how you say it? You never did explain that. Poor choice of words especially on forum that is seen and read world wide.

Here's a conifer that has lost 2/3rd of it needles, top 1ft of its leader and has no roots to grow on and your blaming the loss on me.

I suspect you have a problem with me and it goes deeper then your letting on. It's evident by your negative response that doesn't agree with everybody else who chimed in.

Get a life. Go take your frustrations out on someone that can put up with your poor choice of words.

Dave

So, I used a common internet acronym, big deal. Lighten up.

>I suspect you have a problem with me and it goes deeper then your letting on.I wouldn't know you from Adam and I waited about a week to respond. I think you're being paranoid here.

For get it wadet. I don't have time for you. Go post a negative response some where else. This post has run it course long before you entered the picture. Go grow a Palm Tree.

Dave

Hey, you're taking this way to seriously. And enough with petty attacks. I've on these forums for about two years and have never had any problems with anyone. So, stop over-reacting. Carry on.

You have the last word. Hope that makes you happy.

As Dax says,

Peace everyone.....

Dave

"Pseudolingo acroconym"

What's this new species? First I've heard of it!

"Pseudolingo acroconym"
What's this new species? First I've heard of it!

It is a sub-species of the etherworld identified by a lack of spelling prowess and a penchant for shortspeak. Within a generation it will have no idea what the phrase "To more picturesque speech" means nor how to spell laugh. LOL ;-)

tj

Shoulda we end this post and move on. It has reached the point where nothing of value is being discussed unless some one can tell me how to grow a conifer without roots. Never mind.

I whoulda rather I coulda never posted this. Somebody shoulda stopped me.

Dave

Well Dave, I got something out of it. Thank you for helping with my Sequoiadendron conundrum - got distracted from saying that earlier.

Oh, and I came across a "Silver Show" yesterday (in a pot, not B&B) and snapped it up - a new pet for me.

KarinL

KarenL,

Good deal on the 'Silver Show'. Can you post a photo of it in the gallery side of the forum? I would like to see it.

I am out of pet conifers for the time being. I am sure another one will emerge from my family of conifers.

Dave

Hi guys,

Silver Show is the best of them all. A third has entered the market. I bought it and it's called, 'Silberreif'. There's no question in my mind that of the three, 'Silver Show' is the winner.

Dax

Dax, it was partly your posting some time ago comparing the various silver-backed ones that made me jump at this opportunity, I remembered your preference. Dave, I'm going to post it here rather than gallery, figuring it is on-topic enough that I can evade having to figure out the photo-loading process over there...

It was tied to that stake but it looked constrained so I released it for the photo and in anticipation that I will stake it better (she said optimistically).

KarinL

Here's this 'Silberreif'. First two photos are in shade. Then sun. Followed by my example Karin is talking about with side by side photos of (left) 'Silberlocke' - (right) 'Silver Show'. There's truly no comparison.

Dax

{{gwi:789558}}

{{gwi:789559}}

{{gwi:789561}}

{{gwi:789562}}

{{gwi:639997}}

A close-up of 'Silver Show' on my 5-year plant from a one-gallon (very "beefy" character to start with):
{{gwi:640000}}

The ones with nice, sensible, properly-shaped needles are even better still . . . ;-)

Resin

F L A B!

Dax

I've heard of sensible shoes, but sensible needles? :>) Actually, I agree wholeheartedly with Resin. This is one case where the straight species is ornamentally superior (IMO), while the silver-whatever's are more hype than anything. Korean Fir is such a beautiful conifer, I don't understand why its not offered at the retail level. You can find Silberlocke just about anywhere, but not so for a seedling Korean Fir.

Bob

When I have the acreage I'll stick to species!

Nice show of silver, Dax, thanks.

KarinL

EXCELLENT.