Another photoa href="http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/zzf/media/Th20dol20Cristata20B2.jpg.html"; target="_blank">{{gwi:614385}}

Nice! The Ogi Matzu looks great.

Would T. plicata 'Haley Bop' be considered cristate?

'Haley Bop' is ALL cristate. LOL.

EDIT: technical malfunctions

This post was edited by unprofessional on Sun, Nov 17, 13 at 11:01

Zsolt wrote:
Cristata Tomszak - Mirek some work for you.

This is not 'Cistata Tomszak'. It's 'Cristata' foto by Tomszak :)

Mirek, its possible. I used to write after names the person, who made the photo, as the source.
Zsolt

Dave, your 'Haley Bop' is very beautiful!

Wolfgang

Thank you Wolfgang, but my Haley Bops are only golf-ball sized. Only the picture above is mine. The plant belongs to Larry Stanley.

~Dave

Sorry for the poor quality photo, a friend had recently discovered this unusual picea pungens (cristate?) growth. Is there anyone in Canada who is familiar with grafting such a specimen?

Terrance

Awesome!

I documented in October in a nursery.

Chamaecyparis obtusa Birgit

Zsolt

Another photo

Thanks,

also very beautiful!

Wolfgang

Lets see Sciadopitys bastards.
Cristata AC from unknown sources, documented at Malik in CZ.
Any idea where it comes from?

Zsolt

Sciadopitys verticillata Cristate Form of Wiel Linssen in the Netherlands. Documented this June in Etzelstorfer Gardens.

Zsolt

Another photo
Sometimes life is not simply, plant is small, focused from 5 cm.
Zsolt

{{!gwi}}

Once again

Congrats to Wiel. Trunk is also cristatous, absolutely perfect.
Zsolt

Interesting. I see this type of growth on my bottlebrush buckeye.

The cristate idea is spreading slowly overell...

I got today from Tibor Radi some photos of his own cristate.

Sciadopitys verticillata, names later.

Zsolt

Nice trunk

Finally a perfect cristate buddy area.

Zsolt

Zsolt, is there any confusion about your Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Birgit'.

I read in German Nurseries : Chamaec.o. ' Brigitte'. At Derek Spicer ' Brigitt' . Larry Stanley : ' Bridget '.??

Wolfgang

This means phonetic hearing. Everybody writes as they think. I have many problems of this at identifications.
Zsolt

Hello Wolfgang and Zsolt,

Here is something to consider.

Although there are many errors present, many plant scholars accept the RHS Horticultural Database as *the* definitive reference for cultivar names. Although I don't always trust the RHS database, I often use it in a tie-breaking situation unless I have compelling evidence to believe otherwise.

The RHS lists Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Brigitt' as the true name. They also list 'Brigitte' as an unchecked name. Perhaps, just a synonym for 'Brigitt.'

Auders & Spicer in the RHS Encyclopedia of Conifers describe this plant as being introduced by Cedar Lodge Nursery in New Zealand in 1989.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to the RHS database

This post was edited by Glaciers-End on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 20:51

David,
Brigitt was found by David and Noeline Sampson in 1990 really at Cedar Lodge. Larry Stanley introduced it to the USA and later came to overseas. Independent of this fact everyone writes as they hear it. In english speaking nurseries you cant never be sure, that a name is written correctly.
I also listed it on this name. You can check it on my page.
The photo above is an imported tree from Pistoia Valley, Italy.

I know RHS. They have 8000 conifers from the past in the Conifer Encyclopedia. I have 24000 among them 12000 newly published cultivars in the last 5 years. What do you think, what can I learn from RHS?

Zsolt

Zsolt,

thank you for the information about the Sampson family as the people responsible for finding 'Brigitt.' I had not previously known this information and I have updated my notes. I did a little more research and you quote the Sampsons in Breeder's Hall #24 that the name of the plant is Brigitt's Beehive. Now we have more confusion, so I must dig deeper.

Now here is what I think about databases ---

The RHS Horticultural Database is simply another source of information for me. Because all they list is the cultivar name, they are only useful for checking spelling errors.

Maybe a reason for this database holding more prestige is that the growers actually register the names with them. This would give them a little more credibility since the input is done by the finder rather than a second person publishing information seen elsewhere.

Be aware that in most cases less is more. The practice of listing every variation of cultivar names only perpetuates confusion. It is best to research, communicate and compare, then come up with a logical conclusion to why you think a cultivar should be listed the way it is. Then be prepared to defend your assertion.

In the case of 'Brigitt' (or 'Brigitt's Beehive'), the only way to be absolutely certain of the name would be to contact the Sampsons and ask them. I just sent an email to Cedar Lodge Nursery. I'll let you know what they say. It would not surprise me to see another clerical error in the RHS Database.

~Dave

This post was edited by Glaciers-End on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 21:16

Dave,

the Sampsons sold their nursery some years ago.

There are a lot of errors in the RHS Database.P.e. at Cryptomeria. They write after some culrivars the name sugi ( Sekkan-sugi, Rasen-sugi). And we know since a long time, this is not correct.
So I think there must be a lot of errors.

Wolfgang

This happened in 2011. Their son Greg was going to change, some earlier employee bought the nursery. The rich homepage was deleted, which was the best in the southern hemisphere. Lady Noeline told me once, the newzealander doesnt like conifers like us. The enthusiast Sampsons gave a lot of nice conifers to the world. As I know Larry Stanley was several times there and by him the Sampsons conifers survive anyhow.

I have no special problems with the name "sugi", this means cryptomeria pine in japan language. There are a lot of selections, which were named in japanese in the States. People gave japanese names without speaking japanese. Many confusions are rooted here. By this way the sugi is sure of japan origin.

Zsolt

Also Derek Spicer got a lot of cultivars from Lady Noeline.
What a pity.The old homepage was full of fantastic cultivars - I agree with Zsolt - and a lot are gone now.

Wolfgang

I set above 3 umbrella pine photos with "names later".
These are Cristate Form of Wiel Linssen HOL.
Zsolt

I made some astrological studies about Thuja plicata Haley Bop, which is a nice cristate form for us. As I know, the cultivar got his name after a comet in 1995. This comet was the Hale-Bopp, so I think that the Haley Bop is an incorrect name.

Zsolt

Hi Zsolt, I just sent a message to Larry Stanley. I'm pretty sure he named the plant and I'm pretty sure I know why he named it the way he did. We'll just wait for confirmation.

~Dave

Dave, the Thuja plicata 'Haley Bop' was named by Dick North and the story goes that the special growth was caused by the komet Hale Bopp which flew over the seed bed were this seedling was growing.

Didn't you pay attention when Larry told this to us when we visited him last January?
Now you see why a good memory is very important for someone who's taking care of a conifer data base...

This post was edited by coniferjoy on Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 8:40

I guess that Dick North must be a good gardener to find such wonders in the seedbed. The naming procedure was certainly not undisturbed.
We have a Halley comet, which comes back every 76 years, last time in 1986. Than we have this fresh comet Halle-Bopp. I think Dick is less good in astronomy, and finally gave a mixtured name, which he cooked from the two comets.
Anyway, Haley Bop doesnt mean anything.

Zsolt

Yes, Edwin. I remember hearing the story, but I wanted to see it again in writing so it is preserved forever. Brains and memories get foggy over time. You will find this out as you age.

The way I remember Larry Stanley telling the story is that 'Haley Bopp' is a fun play on words. Perhaps Zsolt doesn't know this, but in the 1960s there was a band named "Bill Haley and the Comets." A nickname for their kind of music is "Bop." Maybe now the name makes a little more sense to you, Zsolt.

~Dave

I like funny names.
Specially the radiating comet made me deep impressions.
Zsolt

Pawel posted this today on the FB Miniature Conifers page. This is a very interesting plant. Has anyone seen Pinus densiflora 'Mellands's Compact' before?

~Dave

Ouch ! It's terrible.
Pinus densiflora "Meylan Compact" !!!

Clement

Ok Clement, terrible,
Do you have any idea where comes this cultivar from?
I havent seen cristate forms on it.
Zsolt

Hello Clement,

I just did a google image search of 'Meyland Compact' and it looks nothing like the plant shown by Hanutkowo. Is it possible that they are two different plants?

~Dave

David,
try this. Thy first 5 photos are from me.
Zsolt

Here is a link that might be useful: Meylan

yes, Zsolt that's what I mean. Your pictures show a globose normal looking plant. The picture from Hanutkowo shows a cristate monstrous form. I would like this difference explained. To me they are two different plants.

Dave

Pawel used to make much better photos. I hope he has some.
On the given photo I see nothing cristate.
Zsolt

Dave, the one at that pic doesn't look like a Pinus densiflora at all.
It's buds and needles doesn't fit for this species and I don't see any cristate forms either...

thanks, guys. I will get back to Pawel and see what he's up to here.

Zsolt, today by accident during packing orders I also found a 'Krejci' with cristate branches.
It looks to me that this will happen more often...

I'll show you pics of it soon in another topic.

Also I found. On the two plants :)

Take a beer guys!