When I make rye bread, I use a few of the flavor add-ins from King Arthur flour. Some of the most flavorful is their sour rye flavor, either deli rye or Heidelberg rye flavor. Yes, I do add onion too, but its usually the dried granulated type, that used to be sold at Bj's, and Costco. I now buy it from either Spices etc, or Penzeys. Now, both warehouse companies don't offer the granulated type anymore. Instead, they only sell the chopped and powdered. The chopped is too big a piece and the powdered is clumpy and less flavored. You could use some fresh or dried chives or shallots too, to add a bit of color. When I make a multi grain bread, I use another item from KA, and it contains flax, wheat berries, sunflower, spelt, sesame, and many other almost whole grains. I also add regular rolled oats. All of these very course grains are place in a small food processor and whizzed a few seconds to chop them a bit finer. Without doing this chopping, the wheat is VERY hard.
Back to rye, I use rye flour (small amount) along with bread flour, and because rye has very little gluten, I like to add a bit more wheat gluten. As an extra measure to keep it fresher longer, I add some ascorbic acid as well as lecithin granules. The combination of added gluten, ascorbic, and lecithin help to keep it longer without spoiling. KA also has a champagne yeast, quite expensive, but you use only a 1/4 teaspoon to make a starter for two loaves. Malt is the sweetener I use for the yeast rise. Recently, I stocked up on several bread making supplies, which also included pumpernickle flour, bread enhancer, which has the gluten, ascorbic, and malt. When I add caraway to my rye, I run some through a small coffee grinder (blender type), along with using some whole seeds. The use of some of black caraway is also used, and is great to give it a old world flavor. The black caraway is quite strong, so use less. My grandfather, the polish baker, used to call the black caraway Russian bird seed, and use them in his bagels, and a few bread types. Up until recently, I still had a small amount of his black caraway, whic had turned rancid after about 40 years in my pantry, but luckily, I found much fresher caraway from a spice dealer (mentioned above). Soft pretzels will be next, as Alton Brown had a recent show about them, and seemed to follow the same process I do, which was to dip the formed pretzls in boiling water with baking soda added. This gives them a gloss and browns them better, as well as allowing the pretzel salt to stick better. I didn't apply any egg wash though, which isn't really necessary. BTW, that same process is used for making bagels, which are also dipped in boiling baking soda water. KA has a powdered and liquid barley malt additive that can also add some outer color, or mixed in to the dough as the yeast food (sweetener).
One last point. Adding potato flour will help some breads stay moist longer. I must say that I wont buy any commercial hot dog rolls anymore, as I now have switched to the potato flour hot dog rolls, that last for days longer without going stale.
Happy bread making.

Bejay,

My bread book says to add dried onion to the recipe.

Lynn

Ken and Lynn -

Thank you. I made a copy of your post Ken. Hopefully, I won't repeat my questions too often. (This getting old is for the birds!).

My observations -

I have the gluten enhancer, and use it whenever I bake - 1 tsp per cup of flour as I recall. In the past, I have purchased a flour (big bag) of flour that had more gluten. It made great pizza dough.

The extra strong rye is what I would like to find and perhaps I will give King Arthur website a visit soon. Most of my extra additives are purchased from Henry's Mkt (Wild Oats) and these can be purchased in bulk. Rye, however, was not among those available. But, I did find powdered soy flour, wheat germ, cracked wheat (what's the difference?), bran and whole wheat flours. They all seem to be nice and fresh, and very reasonable. You can scoop them out of buckets - measuring individually.

They also have organic stuff - which I don't usually buy, but when I want to get starters for yams or sweet potato, for instance, or maybe ginger, they sprout better (no sprout inhibitors sprayed on them). Which reminds me, better get those yams going pretty soon. Temperatures warming here.

I also see a recipe for bagels in the book I have - and they would go well with the new-found, home-made cream cheese that I made from the postings on yogurt awhile ago. Appreciate the "heads-up" on the wash for them, which you mention in your recent postings, Ken.

Now that the weather is warming - bread making may be a back-burner otherwise. Some broccolli and cabbage plants are beginning to produce, as well as lots of bok choy and fresh lettuce.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Lucky you with garden veggies. Here its still a long way off. Temps outside last night about 1 degree F, and right now its only 12 degrees and very windy.

The rye flour coms in two types, light and dark, te dark is a bit stronger tasting. NEVER use all rye flour for ry bread, as its just too heavy, and has nearly zero gluten. Here, I don't measure the gluten and use quite a bit of it. Wheat germ is only a small part of the wheat kernal, and can go rancid very quickly. Gracked wheat is the whole wheat kernal that is broken open. Gran is the outer coating of wheat, and cracked and whole are the same thing, except the call the whole wheat a 'berry'. These, added to bread in their dry state are going to be VERY hard, unless you chop tem in a food processor (hence, cracked wheat). Soy flour is nice for anyone that is alergic to wheat, but keep in mind it also has very little gluten of the type that gives dough elastic properties. Suggest you give that sour rye flavor additive a try. The have warnings on the outside about being a very strong acid, which it is. Only a small amount is needed. One interesting note about doughs, I am now starting to taste the raw dough and seeing if it has enough salt, and flavor before its finally risen. Some breads do well with just a single rise if you like big holes in them, but they do need more kneading first. I was also considering starting a a champagne yeast starter like a sourdough starter, by using the store bought yeast, add it to some whole wheat flour and get it bubble a day or two, just like the sourdough. Additinally, there is no reason why you can use sour dough as a base for your rye bread, as sourdough can still be made in a large batch, then add just rye flour to it for the final bread.
Funny you should mention creamed cheese on bagels. Thats exactly what my mom did for many years. She had my dad buy her big tubs of yogurt which she strained and made into cheese, then he would go to the big bagel bakery in Chelsea where they were making bagles from 5am to 1 pm, and the line went out the door.

Here is a VERY simple recipe for bagels. You could also make sour dough type bagels wich are really good with creamed cheese. The recipe link has instructions, but instead of the pinch of yeast with flour and water, overnight, you would replace that part with a batch of the sourdough starter. A light sprinkle of pretzel salt is a great way to serve these too.

Here is a VERY simple recipe for bagels. You could also make sour dough type bagels wich are really good with creamed cheese. The recipe link has instructions, but instead of the pinch of yeast with flour and water, overnight, you would replace that part with a batch of the sourdough starter. A light sprinkle of pretzel salt is a great way to serve these too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Simple bagel recipe

found delcious rye bread at publix in fl. .. one of the ingredients listed was 'rhe extract' ... does anyone have any knowledge (how, why. where) .. thanks jt

My best guess? A typographical error!

typo yes "
'rye extract'

Probably not a typo. There is rye extract. (See link below for info on one brand.) It's akin to wheat grass juice.

This comes from an earlier post of mine on Cooking:

Here are some rye tips that could prove useful with high-proportion rye recipes:

1. The gluten structure is more delicate so gentle kneading is best. If you knead too much, the gluten strands break and the sugar chains exude moisture into the dough, leading to an unappealing gumminess.

2. Rye flour is sweet and those sugars will continue to develop at higher temperatures than wheat. What this means is rye breads with greater proportions of rye baked at the usual temperatures are more likely to collapse in the oven. This is where the acid in a rye sourdough comes in handy. (Rye is not only low-gluten but has sugars called pentosans. Sourdough works beautifully with rye because the acid counteracts the sugars.)

3. Rise dough for a shorter period. Bake at a higher initial temperature. Then lower temperature for a nice crumb-set and best flavor development.

4. If there's lots of rye in the bread, don't cut it too soon. Let it cool completely. A high-proportion rye can even benefit from sitting a day or so before cutting. Like fine wine, it needs to age.

Also, if you're adding wheat berries or other hard, chunky amendments to the dough, it's a good idea to add those near the end. Say you're adding 7-grain cereal. Added early the sharp bits tend to cut the gluten strands, resulting in a less well-risen loaf.

If necessary, pre-soak or cook briefly to soften the grains and compensate for the fact that they're being added late in the process.

I hope this helps.

I second what Ken said about KAF's rye sour and also their seed blends. They also sell high-protein flours which are excellent in conjunction with rye or for baked goods like bagels.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Rye Extract

I also use ther heidleberg sour flavor and deli rye flavor. Both are quite strong, and only asmall amount is needed to get a decent rye bread. Starting a sourdough culture, specifially for rye, is a great choice too. My grandfather the baker had a sourdough rye culture for many years, and they need a bit more care compared to regular wheat sourdough starters. Because of the higher natural sugar in rye, the sourdough culture 'dies' sooner, but once a little bit of regular flour is added to the rye starter, it can survive quite well for several months, before it needs a 'feeding' again. If its fed only rye, the feedings (adding a little flour and water) would have to be done about every 2-3 weeks, or it can be dried and saved for a base rye starter after a longer time. One way to add more sour character to a sourdough is to use a little buttermilk, or sour cream. Some of the multi grains (especialy wheat berries) are quite hard, so I run them through a small food processor to chop them up a bit more. Then, they are added at the end of the first rise. I still have some pizza dough flour. Just used up about 4 pounds of Durham wheat semolina that was in my freezer. I made a huge batch of pasta sheets. These went into a big lasagne that was in a big pan 22 "x 14"x5". It took all the pasta, 3 pounds of shreaded carrots, 3 pounds cooked spinach, and 3 pounds of cottage cheese mixed with Asiago, amd mazzarella cheese and some eggs. It cuts like a big cake.