Everyone is just about sick of hearing about the garden right now and what I'm going to plant, etc ;)

I can't start my seeds for at LEAST 3 more weeks, and I'm counting those weeks down!

I'm feeling garden deprived also :)

Laura

Laura, you know what I've always wondered...why is it that plants drop their seeds in the fall or winter, and they seem to do just fine sprouting when it's time for them to sprout, but we have to wait 'til the last chance of frost?

That's what's got me actually planting, the volunteers that are sprouting already.

rachelellen - You know - you've got a point there.

I feel a bit guilty mentioning it, but I'm harvesting a few things already - not tomatoes tho, mind you. But, cool stuff - planted last October already. As you mentioned - nature has a way. I spilled some of my precious Bibb lettuce seeds - under a mandarin tree - and they look better than the later lettuces planted afterward (when weather "warmed-up"). Also, the celery that I planted several years ago, that I let go to seed - and boy, did it ever! They sent seeds all over - and the chickens really love all the extra plants I toss in to them.

I've always said - that I think the reason store tomatoes taste so bad, is that they didn't weather the rigors of rain, cold, searching heat - like home grown maters do.

Of interest, my son is in Florida - taunting me with stories of picking tomatoes ripening in the fields now. Sheesh - with our recent high 30+ temps - I couldn't get away with it, but I did start some paste types under lights the other day. Maybe this year I will "do" more cannings.

Bejay

waa waa waa.. Here I must wait until the May before most things can get planted outside.

> Laura, you know what I've always wondered...why is it that plants drop their seeds in the fall or winter, and they seem to do just fine sprouting when it's time for them to sprout, but we have to wait 'til the last chance of frost?

Gosh, there's no need to wait till last frost for things that can tolerate cold! Lettuce does better if you plant it way early --- like bejay, I had great crops from volunteer seeds, and since then I start my lettuce, as the seed packet says, "as soon as the ground can be worked." Ditto peas.

Have you heard about winter sowing? Some folks follow nature's lead and put out seeds in midwinter, in little containers with vented plastic lids, so they'll sprout whenever they decide they're ready. (There's a winter sowing forum here on Gardenweb where you can read all about it.)

But some plants, like tomatoes and basil, are from places (South America and the Mediterranean, respectively) that have VERY different climates than my zone 5 Ontario garden. Tomatoes are perennial vines in their native habitat, living 2-3 years, but it doesn't ever frost there.

Like Ken, I have to wait till May to plant out such tender plants if I want to be sure they are safe from frost. What I have taken to doing with my beloved tomatoes is planting out a small number of early varities a few weeks early --- around May 1, when last frost here is more like May 20. If frost threatens, I can protect that small number by covering them. And at worst I'll lose a dozen plants. And at best I'll get tomatoes earlier! (Not usually a full 3 weeks earlier, 'cos they grow slowly in the cool spring. The ones planted later catch up a bit.)

That still means starting them no earlier than early March, though. To curb my cravings at this time of year I usually start making bean sprouts. ;-) Or I start some flower seeds that take a longer time to germinate. But mostly I pore over my garden catalogues and dream and plan. Sometimes I think I love my garden best of all in February, when the beds are rock-hard dirt covered in 18 inches of snow, because nothing has gone wrong yet! ;-)

Z

About the only thing that does quite well over winters is the dill seeds that drop off the seed heads. I plan to plant some dill seeds soon, but must wait until the soil thaws out as its like a rock right now. I start my plants indoors and then about the begning of May, place them in my outdoor greenhouse (6'x8') so they can 'harden up', and get used to strong sunlight. Usually they are ready by the end of May. I was too soon one year, and planted all my peppers and tomato plants about May 15 one year, and we had a frost about 6 days later, which killed about 80% of all my plants. Most local garden shops and nurseries also lost a lot of stock due to the cold snap. Once in a while, we will have a failry warm May, whch has no frosts, but I can never tell what that will be happening. Losing 200+ plants to frost isn't something I can take lightly. Today, I saw some red winged blackbirds for the first time this year. Looks like they are heading north now for the warmer weather which may come soon.. Usally after seeing just a few, the rest arrive in the thousands, and then my back yard is loaded with them.

I couldn't stand it so I planted parsley, basil and thyme for a windowsill garden in the kitchen!

I can transplant later or just let them grow there.

Soon, though, I'll be planting the early stuff like Zabby said!!!

Deanna

It was 25° below zero last night. I don't even want to LOOK outside, much less GO out there! The itch won't hit me till about mid-April when it seems that the snow just won't go away and the nights are still so cold and I still can't even think about getting out.

Our last frost date is May 30. Although it's been getting earlier. I feel pretty safe with May 15-18 now.

Ann

I must have got lucky last year!

I was going back reading my blog on the garden ...and I was able to start working in the garden & prepping the beds in middle of MARCH! I put my plants out with the wall-o-waters at the first of May, and was thinking (last year anyway) that I missed about 2 good weeks of planting time (with protection of course) ;)

Our last frost wasn't until the end of May, but we didn't have an extended cold so the wall o waters worked great for me on their first trial runs :)

Few more weeks and I can dig all me seed starting stuff out...woohoo!

Laura

I can't imagine using Wall-o-Waters' here. With 200 or more plants in my garden, it all has to be done at the right time, the end of May for Z6. Luckily, with the small greenhouse and plants started indoors, I can safely put them out by May 1, and if we do get a late frost, I just close the door and turn on a small electric heater for the overnight cold temps. Here, the ground wil be quite hard for at least another month.

I've been itching for the last two weeks and finally decided to clear an area in my sewing room to start some seeds. I have a regular sized south facing window in there and also have a grow light that I will jerry-rig over the plants. I usually germinate my plants on top of my refrigerator in foil pans with the plastic covers then move them to the sewing room.

If anyone gets an opportunity to get Revolution Pepper seeds or plants, give them a try. I got the plants last year locally and they far out-produced any bell pepper plant I've ever had. They are a great sweet bell pepper that kept producing until they were frozen out. I've only been able to find the seeds at Tomato Growers and the plants at a little local market. This year I plan to plant a lot more of them for canning and freezing.

bcskye, I found a source for your seeds on line.

Zabby, I'm afraid that my veggie gardening is limited mostly to pots because we live in a rental at the moment (the landlord would likely frown if I tore up the grass), and none of the planting areas I do have get enough sun...or if they do in the Spring, by halfway through the summer because of fences and such) they don't anymore. So, I have pots on a shelf in the back yard and pots in my driveway. If I plant crops for cold weather harvest, I can't put my warm weather stuff in soon enough. I do plant things like radishes, carrots and herbs around the base of my tomatoes, beans and cukes...I'm wondering if lettuces would work that way as well...by the time the real summer heat came, they would be a bit shaded. Hmmmm. It would be awfully nice to pick my whole salad again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Revolution Pepper Seeds

Thank you, rachelellen. I found that same website after I made my posting here. I'm trying to decide which would be the better deal price-wise. Regardless, thank you for your research, too. Also, they'd make a great container pepper and produce quite a few per plant.

Have you considered hanging some planters of veggies? I've seen where some people have grown some tomatoes and cucumbers that way. I grew Mesclum in a 18" long, 6" wide and 6" deep planter out on my front deck last summer and it did great. It grew quite heartily until it finally got covered by a snow and ice storm. Even the wild turkey thought it looked yummy. I would think it would do good if were a little sheltered in the hottest part of the summer. You could even build yourself a tiered planter with slightly smaller planters on each tier as you go up.

The problem with hanging planters is that in the summer heat here, you can't keep small ones watered enough, and I really don't want to put hooks big enough to support larger ones (my landlord might frown on that as well).

Now, a tiered planter sounds interesting. I have thought about adding a standing shelf on top of my shelf out back, so I could grow tender lettuces and herbs on the bottom shelf, protecting them from the worst of the afternoon sun.

Keeping an even moisture level in the containers is a real problem here. Last year I mixed some of that polymer stuff into the soil to help retain water, which helped, but sometimes I still had to water twice a day...and this is in large pots! I found that growing the radishes & herbs in the pots with the other vegetables helped retain the water as well, I guess the leaves near the soil helped shade it a bit or something.

I have a banister out on the front porch that I am itching to put containers on, but my husband is a big man, and it is a narrow porch, so I am resisting, sensing catastrophe. ;D

Seed saving.. Have you tried that? When I come across a really good vegetable that performs well here, I will save some seeds from a few of the yield and dry them for the following year. Works very well for peppers, tomatoes, garlic chives, asparagus, dill, coriander, cantaloupe, and other melons, squash. My seed needs are less each year, and I have quite a collection including expensive impatien seeds and other flowering plants like petunias. Some flowering plants like portlaca (moss rose) do quite well even in very dry situations. I usually plant many of these too, and they need a lot less watering. The polymer stuff is a great help too.

rachelellen,

Hey, if you garden in containers, you are of course much more restricted in space and the quantity you can grow, but you get a lot of other advantages, chief of them being control over the environment! Much less worry if you start warm-weather crops early, since if a late frost threatens you can protect seedlings more easily by covering the pots or bringing them in somewhere overnight. And of course, in zone 8 you're a very different situation than I am here in the True North. (I can't even see where my raised beds ARE in the yard now, let alone get to them, the snow is so deep, sigh....)

I gardened largely in containers before moving to my small town --- had some tomatoes in the backyard, and a balcony jungle of herbs, peas, peppers, blueberries, strawberries....

Now I have lots of space but I still grow my herbs in pots by choice. Keeps the rampant ones in line and makes it easier for me to baby the finicky ones. In theory it also means I can keep some tender ones going by bringing them in over the winter, but my long-term success record with that isn't so great. I've never had a rosemary last more than one winter. Currently I have a wee bay tree looking good in its second midwinter, though. It'd probably look even better if I hadn't harvested from it in its first year. (What can I say? I needed bay leaves late one night. ;-) )

Nice info about the revolution peppers. I tried Gypsy for a few years, and while they did better than the sweet bells I'd tried, they still didn't really produce enough to be worth the trouble, so I mostly grow hot peppers now and let my the local farmers sell me the sweet bells. But I probably won't be able to resist giving Revolution a try...!

Z

Zabby, rosemary grows like a weed here...it'll take over the whole garden if you aren't careful. Once, I had planted a redwood tub with herbs and during the winter, when I wasn't paying attention, the rosemary pushed the other herbs all out. After a couple of years, I tried to move the tub because I was moving, and the darn thing had sent a big, thick root through the drainage hole and deep into the earth.

I'm kind of surprised that you haven't been able to keep one through the winter, indoors, being that around here it's almost impossible to kill them! :D

prarie_love -

I thought you might get a chuckle out of this.

We had a "storm" yesterday, with light snow falling on one of our major eastward freeways. Thousands of cars and trucks were stalled with slight snow that fell.

BUT - all was not lost, the stranded motorists were rescued and spent the night at a local Indian casino.

Now - that really should help boost a flagging economy anyway.

I grew up in the midwest - my grandfather homesteaded on a farm in eastern Dakota/western Minesota border area. I lived with an aunt and uncle on the family farm for a few years, and remember it vividly.

As I was depressed to see the snow packed up high over the window one winter - my aunt gave me a nasturium seed, which I planted in a cup of dirt, and that little rascal sprouted on the windowsill!!!

I'm wondering if I can make a dill crock using some bok choy, ancho peppers, green onions, broccoli, garlic and a Thai pepper. That's what I have in the garden - a bit here and there. Maybe I'll give it a try.

A bit OT - but just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Only storm here that crippled everyone was the blizzard of 1978. After that ordeal and a week off work, it was not a very good time doing any traveling. Most cities and towns had police barracades and you were only allowed to pass if you showed ID or were medical personnel. That day, I was over 9 hours on the road, trying to get home. It usually took only about 45 minutes.

rachelellen,

Oh, it's easy enough to kill rosemary --- just move somewhere that the winter temps. regularly get down to -20 F! There was a new variety out a few years ago claiming to be hardy in zone 7 and in zone 6 with protection, but it turned out to be a BFSL ("big fat smelly lie," as my husband says). All the gardeners I know ran out and got it, and not a one had it still alive the next spring.

And it just doesn't seem to thrive if brought indoors, though it might hobble along for a few months or a year. Even thouse who (unlike me) are good with indoor plants seem to find that. I do have one friend who had one pot last several years by dint of ONLY keeping it indoors, never letting it OUT. It grew very slowly but survived where the ones brought in from their garden never did.

So far the bay is doing well, however. I just have to remember to bring it in soon enoug --- the last one I had was killed in the fall from an early cold snap.

Still, I wouldn't really trade my climate. I appreciate each season all the more for the sharp contrast with the others!

Zabby, off to peruse seed catalogues

I got my fingers dirty!

Had the day off yesterday and played in the garden. Planted lettuce, chard, spinach, dill, snow peas and radishes.
Dug in the dirt, ripped out old plants, found an acorn that just started to split so popped it into a pot.

It was sunny and about 50 degrees. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh......

I think I can make it until spring really gets here now.

Deanna

Deanna,

If it was 50 degrees, the soil could be worked enough to plant cold-season crops, and you've been digging in the dirt, I say that MAKES it spring for you, you lucky dog!

I can't even get TO my backyard for all the snow --- we just got a half-cord of wood delivered for the woodstove and had to stack it up in the driveway and on the front stoop 'cos we have no path to the back --- can't even make out the outline of my raised beds, which up till the latest dump of snow I could just see the pattern of in the otherwise unbroken sea of white....

Argh. Really, I like my climate, and I can embrace winter --- right up till about Valentine's Day. But about now I DO get sick of it, and alas, there is plenty more to come.

Definitely time to start some sprouts.

Z

Went out to get the mail today and noticed 3 sheets of my vinyl siding had come loose, and one was almost totally out. It was way up there, so I had to use the 40 foot ladder, and try to prop it against the front steel awning on my house. The garden was all snowy and VERY muddy, when I was carring the ladder. I hate heights, but had to climb up and put at least one big long nail into the siding. While there, I found 3 seperate HUGE paper wasp nests. Luckily, none were active. I suspect there are many more nests all over too.

I too am getting the garden itch...BAD. I feel very deprived since I couldn't have a garden last year. I have rosemary sprouts under the lights now as well as Blue Bedder sage and carnations. I've winter-sowed a lot of things, mostly flowers. In another week or so I will put out flats of lettuce and in a few weeks my cabbages and such will be started out. Winter sow works really well for these as they are protected from bitter cold and actually thrive in their little micro climate. Plus, they are all hardened off when you want to plant them in the garden. I don't have room for most of that under the lights since my peppers and tomatoes will take priority when it is time to start them inside. I can't wait!!!! Lori

I noticed last night that my Thyme I planted a week or so ago is popping up!! Of course, it's on my kitchen windowsill.......but still.....it's a bit o' green to keep me going.

My garlic and shallots planted last fall are up too.
Strawberry plants are there, but vewwy, vewwy quiet....

Oh, come ON Spring!!!!!!

Zabby, I've been bit before by a few gorgeous days in February.........and a hard frost in April.....it ain't Spring yet!!! (grin)

Deanna

I never thought my thyme would survive a winter here, after I started them from seeds last spring. The leaves are deep green and have a purple coloration now, and have survived many a heavy snow load, ice and very cold temps. Hope it does well this summer too, when I plan to make more herbed butter. All my other herbs are totally gone, and after buying what were supposed to be French Tarragon plants last spring, I found they had no flavor, and felt that it was not the French type, but the inferiour Russian version, which has no character whatsoever. I contacted Gurneys and told them about the fakes, and was refunded my money. This year, I must look carefully for some plants, as I like to dry it for use later.

Rachelellen, for the 'polymer stuff' go to the pet department in your store and buy the jug of crystals that you can put in the cat litter to absorb moisture. It is the same stuff that the plant nurseries sell in the little packets for an absorbant amount of $. I pay about $7 CDN for a 3 litre jug I believe.

Here, it is still very much winter. I am buying my wave petunia seeds and Kelsey onion seeds tomorrow to start this weekend.

We don't plant anything out until the third to last weekend in May.

I took cuttings off my plectranthus plants yesterday and have to get the cannas going soon also.

Brenda

Wow, thanks Brenda, I never would have thought of that! I will definitely check it out at the pet store, as my experiments with it really helped, particularly in keeping my tomatoes from getting that blossom end rot you get when the moisture level is so inconsistent. If I can get it less expensively, I can use it in all my pots and have to struggle less with keeping up with watering.

ksrogers, I wonder if that is why the tarragon in the stores around here is so bland? When I lived in the Bay Area, I used to buy it at my favorite produce market and it was simply wonderful, but ever since moving to the valley, it tastes little better than grass that was maybe grown next to tarragon.

It's funny, one doesn't think of herbs as having different cultivars, but I have two pots of marjoram, and they bear only slight resemblance to each other.

I bought a kumquat and a bare root nectarine the other day. The gal at the nursery told me to top the nectarine right above 4 "limbs" (twigs, more like) as soon as I planted it, but I chickened out, so it's in a nice pot, untopped at the moment. I was screwing up my courage to do it today, but a storm came in and it's been too wet and icky to do anything in the yard. I know I have to do it, but it seems such a brutal thing to do to a new "baby" I just brought home.

My daffodils are starting to bloom and I put in some primroses the other day, so the yard isn't looking quite as winter-bleak. But, the green beans I planted indoors in pots on the 10th sprouted, and then mysteriously grew no leaves. Finally, I dug one up and have deduced that the plants succumbed to the craving for fresh greens in my one indoor-only cat. Grumble. So, now I have dug up a pot full of sprouting bird seed from under the feeder to do duty as kitty-salad, and must start over again with the green beans.

BRE is usually caused by very rapid growth during the heat of summer, combined with high amounts or fertilizer. Its a calcium deficiency and can be remedied by spraying the tomato foliage with a calcium solution (actually a mix of water and calcium chloride). Is more noticeable in the early formations of tomatoes that are somewhat pointed at the ends, like some plum types. I used to have the problem here, but now actually sprinkle some calcium chloride (yes, the ice melting type) into my garden soil then its tilled just afterwards. Calcium carbonate can also be used, but is a bit slower acting. They also sell a liquid concentrate spray you can mix with water and spray on the foliage. Its also helpful with many pepper types that also get these sunken ends.

It is also caused by moisture fluctuations which interferes with the plant's ability to take in and process calcium, which is the problem I had in my pots as it gets so hot and dry around here that I can water thoroughly in the morning and find the soil dry by afternoon. Adding the polymer solved the problem for my plants. Being careful not to add it into the very top layer of soil also helped encourage the plant to send roots deeper, giving it more protection against moisture fluctuation.

> It's funny, one doesn't think of herbs as having different cultivars, but I have two pots of marjoram, and they bear only slight resemblance to each other.

I too was amazed to discover the range now available in what one thinks of as an ordinary spice-rack herb. And the number is growing like crazy, particularly of proprietary cultivars (presumably because they are profitable).

I got a "golden" marjoram last year, which was very pretty and had an almost identical flavour to the "common" kind. And the range of thymes and mints and lavenders is positively astounding!

I try to get to visit the Richters' Herbs greenhouse every year or two --- it is such fun to walk up and down the miles of aisles of little herb starts. It's amazing how many them I suddenly find myself "needing" LOL!

And at least I am certain of getting a true, flavourful tarragon there....

Z
Z

Here is a link that might be useful: Richters Herbs

Tarragon here, is scarce and after the Gurney issue, I am reluctant to buy on line. A small plant seller, located underneath the butcher shop at the local steakhouse (Hill Top), had a sick looking plant he gave me 4 years ago for free. It was the best of any I have ever grown. It only lasted two years, after dieing out in fall and then sprouted all new greens the next spring. Wish it had lasted longer, as I didn't get to harvest much of any leaves. I might check into Richters, and may get some from them.