Software
Houzz Logo Print
ksrogers

New pickle question

17 years ago

Just got an email from a new poster on the Harvest forum. Felt that I should make this email public so that everyone can see and comment on the definition and methods I use and recommend.

Initial email:

Ken,

I am new to GardenWeb, but absolutely love it. I stumbled across it a few days ago when I was looking for information on making pickles. Yesterday I made a large batch of Mrs Wages Dill Pickles (the quick process kind). Today I noticed in one of the posts about pickle crisp that you mentioned that the quick process mrs wages pickles should be kept in the refrigerator. I made 6 quarts and 6 pints. It did say that you can refrigerate to enhance the flavor but it didnt say that it should be refirgerated. However, you are correct I believe it was 11 cups of water and 5 cups of vinegar (although I could be wrong and I have already thrown away the package). Does this mean that I have to keep all of those jars in my refrigerator? How long will they keep in there?


My reply:

Would have been better to post this to the Harvest forum instead, as here, only you see the reply. With your recipe and the amount of vinegar and water, the end product doesn't have enough acid vinegar to be safely canned, but I suppose you could can them in a boiling water bath, but that would be a bit dangerous due to the lack of sufficient vinegar. In many posts, a 50:50 mix of water to vinegar is usually the norm, but I prefer to use all vinegar and no added water, so I can heat process much faster without the pickles turning too much to mush. Pickle Crisp is a food grade calcium chloride crystal and has since been discontinued by Ball, and can be bought elsewhere as mentioned in many posts. It acts as a 'buffer' in that it reduces some of the acid characteristics of vinegar. The vinegar needed MUST be 5% acidity and no lower. With your addition of 11 cups of water to 5 cups of vinegar is a ratio of about 75:25 and far too low in acid to be safely canned. Refrigeration is a must for them, and I would not add any Pickle Crisp to each jar, as that can have an even more negative effect on the brine and safety. Mrs. Wages has a bit of added preservatives if made by the recommended amounts of vinegar and water in the package, but because I deal with faster heat processes and prefer to use a steam canner as opposed to a BWB, I find that a straight 5% vinegar is much safer for my pickles, with no added water. I do add fresh dill weed and dill seed heads, as well as cut up garlic. Now, if this pickle were made with a Mrs. Wages dill pickle mix and I used ONLY water to make a salt brine and 'ferment' the cukes for a few days at room temperature, then refrigerate, they would also be safe just for refrigeration up to a year. Salt water brines are touchy in that the salt must be of the proper amount in order for the the enzymes in the cukes to induce fermentation, that causes an increase of lactic acid, instead of acidic acid vinegar. The fermented types can be refrigerated after about 3 days for a crisper HALF sour pickle, or from 10 days to 2 weeks for a fully fermented pickle and then into the fridge. These are considered quick process in some cases. A 50:50 vinegar/water based cuke would not be refrigerated at first if the vinegar was at least 50% of the water, as they will cure in about 3-5 weeks at room temps, AFTER they have been BWB after filling the jars. That 3-4 weeks of waiting is when most vinegar based pickles can be opened and enjoyed. Pickle Crisp helps to slow down the breakdown and softening of vinegar based pickles for the long term. After a year of sitting on a shelf, a PC canned pickle will be a little crisper compared to one that has been canned without Pickle Crisp (calcium chloride).

Comments (5)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I have a question on the 50:50 ratio. It may have been answered elsewhere but I am going to be a little lazy here. I'll e-mail you shortly and you'll know why...

    Anyway, I went onto NCHFP's site and their recipe calls for 6 cups of vinegar to 8 cups of water. I'm not sure what that ratio is, but it is lower than 50:50.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yes, its different a 50: 50 would be equal parts of water to vinegar. I don't like adding water to my pickles, only white distilled vinegar, as it gives them more taste and safety.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Tested and approved NCHFP recipes that call for less than a 50:50 ratio are one thing. Untested and family recipes are something else entirely.

    Just as with many other things in home canning (like oil), you can't safely generalize from one recipe to another.

    You can always increase acids and be safe but you can't decrease them without risk.

    Dave

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I guess I agree with Ken on the vinegar thing. I don't understand why people are always trying to water down the vinegar in pickle recipes. I want my pickles to be so sour they curl my toes when I eat them, and the pickling solution to be so strong that the metal fork starts to smoke and disolve when it hits the brine! Pickles are meant to be sour, and the flavor can be balanced with sugar and/or salt.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yes, salt has a LOT to do wit taming down the vinegar power. I use all vinegar and pickling salt for my brines an have that similar taste of almost being sweet when the proper amount of salt is added. Tasting a brine is always very important before you add any kind of cukes or spices. If I wanted a really sour pickle, I would add a bit of alum and ven citric acid as the 5% vinegar today is really too mild for a decent sour pickle. I plan to also experiment with some powdered vinegar and add that to the vinegar brine. The powder is quit strong and is similar to the coating they put on vinegar and sea salt potato chips. After eating a bag of them, my mouth feels like it had been sand blasted!