I would think they are telling you to drain the vegetables and then ADD the drained vegetables to your spiced pickling liquid and continue on with the next step.

Ms. Donnie

I agree, they are telling you to drain the vegetables, then add the drained vegetables to the pickling liquid. When the vegetables are hot, pack them into jars and use the hot liquid that they were just heated in to fill the jars with brine.

Annie

Thanks for the responses!

It seems like you wouldn't end up with a very crisp pickle. I wonder why that step is needed, when the other pickle recipes have you put the cucumbers straight into the jar without heating them first?

Okay, I'm beginning to think it's the liquid I'm supposed to add, because this recipe only calls for 1 1/3 cup white vinegar, and 3/4 of lemon juice ... no additional water or liquids are listed, except for what is used to soak the cucumbers in. All of the other pickle recipes in the Ball book call for 3 or 4, or more cups of vinegar, and most even call for several cups of water. I'm thinking that I won't have enough liquid to fill 6 pint jars if I'm not using the water the cucumber were soaking in.

What do you guys think?

Nope, I still think it's the vegetables. You'll be filling the jars with vegetables, then adding brine only to cover. I do find that many times I make extra brine because I don't have enough, although I've never made that recipe.

My reasons for the conclusion are that (1) you are salting the vegetables to remove liquid. The liquid would be extremely salty and there would be no reason to remove it if you're just going to have to add it back in, and (2) it says "in a colander placed over a sink". If they wanted you to keep it, you'd place the colander over a bowl or container, you wouldn't be dipping the liquid out of the sink.

Annie

Agree - it is the vegetables. 2 stages to making pickles:

The pre-soaking liquid is never added to the recipe. It is drained off first. And if salt was added to it as this recipe requires then it is drained off AND the vegetables are rinsed before adding them to the pickling liquid or it will be too salty.

I'm looking at the recipe - page 306. Your pickling liquid is the 1 1/3 c white vinegar, the 3/4 c lemon juice, and the sugar. To that you add the drained and rinsed vegetables.

If you need extra brine to cover them you just make another batch of the vinegar, sugar, and lemon juice.

Dave

All of the other pickle recipes in the Ball book call for 3 or 4, or more cups of vinegar, and most even call for several cups of water.

I understand your concerns about not having enough liquid to cover - it is very likely that you won't and will have to make a separate batch of pickling liquid. That need is fairly common.

HOWEVER, the recipe is correct as is and it is important that you do not change the proportions especially by adding water to it. These cukes contain a great deal of water as it is.

So just plan to make a second batch of brine using the 1 1/3 c of vinegar, the 3/4 c of lemon juice, and toss your spice bag back into it while it is heating.

Dave

Well, I did it the way I thought made sense. You guys are probably going to tell me that I need to throw it all away now.

You do need to throw it away, sorry. That soak is only to draw out extra water in the veggies and help keep them crisp.
The brine will be way too weak now to prevent botulism. Remember, cukes are low acid vegetables. So are the other peppers, etc. You need the whole amount of undiluted brine to make them acid enough to can.
Yes, sorry, but throw them away.

Yep, sorry. You cut your vinegar ratio well below the 50:50 allowed safe rate. But you probably wouldn't have been able to eat them anyway as they will be way too salty.

You'll have to learn to trust your recipes. Especially when they come from such a reliable source.

Dave

There was only 2 Tbsp of salt, so I don't think they will be too salty. Can't I just refrigerate the jars?

Can't I just refrigerate the jars?

Your choice as always. But you don't even have a safe ratio of vinegar to water for refrigerator pickles so I wouldn't. I'd rather be safe. And you would be very surprised to discover just how salty they would taste.

Better yet, why not just rack it up to a valuable lesson learned? And for future reference, several pickling recipes will require that you make extra brine above and beyond what is called for in the recipe.

Also for future reference, just as recipes that call for more water than vinegar are unsafe, brine recipes should NEVER be cut/diluted with water. So any time you find yourself tempted, don't.

Learning lessons like this is all part of the process. ;)

Dave

Dave, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but just looking for clarification on something you said earlier. You mentioned a 50/50 allowed safe ratio of vinegar to water. If that is true, shouldn't I be able to add as much as 2 cups of water to this recipe, and it still be considered safe?

2 different things.

The 50:50 minimum ratio of vinegar to water is a general guide, a tool if you will, for evaluating the safety of a recipe. It is not a recipe in and of itself. And IF that 50:50 ratio would be still be safe would all depend on the rest of the recipe being evaluated - its ingredients.

In this case you have 14 cups of low acid cukes plus close to 4 additional cups of chopped red peppers also low acid and only a hair over 2 cups of acid for all that 17-18 cups. Then there is the garlic.

That is why no water is called for in the recipe because you already have all the water it can safely handle in the cukes themselves (they are 90% water) and still test safe. So no, in this case you cannot add any additional water whatsoever and be safe and you have no way of knowing how much you added from all the melted ice and the water drawn out of the cukes by the salt.

I can understand your desire to save all this work but it just isn't possible in this case because you inadvertently altered the recipe too much for it to be safe. It would likely pH test out right now well above the 5-6.0 level because of the pH of the veggies.

Dave

So if one messes up a brine, is it not possible to rinse off the vegetables and start all over again with fresh brine at the correct water to vinegar ratio?

If the wrong brine has been exposed to the pickles, it can be replaced up to about 12 hours, unless it was poured in while boiling, then its just too late.

Or in addition to what Ken said, if you have already processed the pickles. Then it is too late too.

It honestly does pay in time and $$ to review and make sure you understand any new-to-you recipe before starting it and allow time for questions if you have some.

Dave

Thanks guys!

"You'll have to learn to trust your recipes. Especially when they come from such a reliable source."

On the one hand, I'm hearing, never alter a recipe, and on the other I'm hearing, it's okay to double the brine if there's not enough liquid. IMO, if the instructions aren't clear, and the ingredients listed aren't sufficient for the yield, it's not going to instill confidence in the recipe. Not for me anyway ...

I interpreted that as making another batch of brine to have on hand just in case there isn't enough.

As far as I know, excess unused brine can be stored in the fridge for a few days until needed again.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a shame that you had to toss your produce. That's happened to me on more than one occasion.

A recipe can be as accurate as possible, bny most gardens prodice variable sizes and amounts of things. For instance, small pickling cukes would require pre per jar and proabbly use less brine. Larger pickling cukes take more space in jars and have larger spaces around them. This would probably require more brine. Even for that, quarts and pints can vary even more if used. Mayeb 3-4 big picking cukes per pint jar, vs, 6 or more smaller ones per pint. In either case, brines will be different amounts. I usually don't bother with recipies if I just wnat to know what goes into them. Instead, I try to taste and adjust things to my liking, but might be too much for someone else. As of this point, I have almost a half gallon of salt brine (Mrs. Wages dill pickle mix) and its in a jar in the fridge, waiting for more pickling cukes. I won't pick until tomorrow or Friday as I want a few bigger ones along with smaller ones in half gallon jars. I pack the larger ones at the bottom, and slice smaller ones between them, then use smaller ones on top. It makes for more cukes per jar, and uses a little less brine than a recipe would call for. Even for that, if I make just one half gallon of half sours, I can't really use a recipe, except for the amount of salt needed per gallon of water.
Two years ago, I was in a rush and didn't taste my brine as well, and ended up with very soft weak tasting cukes, a sure sign they would not keep in the fridge, so they were tossed out.

highalttransplant - we aren't going to be able to make you happy today and I understand why but please don't go looking for problems where none exist either.

The real problem is that you jumped into a recipe you didn't understand upfront and then, rather than postponing it, you went ahead. And then when msdonnie and annie gave you the proper instructions within just a few minutes, you disputed their advice and went ahead and did it your way rather than follow their advice.

We have all been there and done that and yes, it is frustrating, but it serves no purpose to blame or question the validity of the recipe or the assistance offered by the other posters.

For future reference, understand that needing to make extra brine for a recipe has absolutely nothing to do with the safety of the recipe or whether or not it should be trusted.

Extra brine may be needed for any number of reasons beyond the recipe author's control - the size of your cukes, the size of the slices, the way you fill the jars, the way you measure, etc. etc. etc.

And making an additional batch of brine, as it is called for in the recipe in use, does not alter the safety of the product in any way. It is just more of the same stuff.

This need has been discussed here often and is discussed at NCHFP and last I looked in the front section of BBB etc. books. And unless it is a recipe you have made before and so know that extra brine will be needed and made a note to yourself about that, it is not a batch you make ahead to have on hand. You fill the numbers of jars that you can, seal and process them, keep the rest of the pickles hot in the pan and whip up a second batch of brine in another pan then fill and process those jars.

These are all things that are learned with experience and patience but we learn best when we own up to our own screw ups and move on.

Dave

I apologize if I have offended anyone that responded to my question. I waited as long as I could, but there was no way that I had enough liquid for the amount of jars that were to be filled, not even close, so I just had to make a decision. I didn't know it was okay to double the brine, and I was just doing my best to follow the recipe. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate everyone's advice, but if I don't question things that don't make sense to me, I'll never learn anything. For example Dave, your explanation on why I can't add water, and still meet the 50/50 ratio, was excellent, and knowing why I shouldn't do something, is much more helpful than justing blindly following a bunch of rules.

Bonnie

but if I don't question things that don't make sense to me, I'll never learn anything.

Good point! And you'd love a series of good canning classes because in the classes you get to learn the "whys" and not just the "how-tos" and there are other folks in the class to ask some of the questions too and plenty of time for long discussions. ;)

But in this format, detailed explanations when you are already in the middle of a recipe are impossible to do. In that case - a rush job - you have to either put the project on hold or take the answers at face value and get the details later.

But no apologies needed - it was a frustrating day for you and lessons can be painful at times. Been there and had those - we all have. But just think about all you learned!!!

Dave