I think the Eastern Redbud, the "common" understory tree, is hardier than the Forest Pansy. I have a Forest Pansy that has been in the ground for 4 years and this is the first spring where it looks quite healthy, full of buds. I find that in the summer it requires a lot of deep watering to keep the leaves from looking wilted. In the first year, I had to prune several branches that had died.

While I love the look of my tree it is definitely a "pansy" in the old-fashioned sense of the word.

They are not really native to this area, more to areas to the south of us. That said, it is a gorgeous tree in the right spot. I planted about 5-7 bare-root redbuds about 4 yrs ago. The ones that were biggest at planting have done the best, and the ones that have done the best overall are situated in full sun in a location protected from northern winds. My property has very consistent moisture too.

I have also heard of problems with the Forest Pansy cultivar. I'd try the species Eastern Redbud instead...

I lost a Forest Pansy I planted after 8 years. One winter it split down the middle of the trunk. I planted it to replace an Eastern redbud that went down in a storm one month after I bought the house. I am giving up on redbuds even though I love the look of Forest Pansy. It gave me only a so-so spring flowering.

No one I know has had any luck with Forest Pansy in New England. As others said, the Eastern redbud can thrive but it needs a very favorable position. Farther south, the redbud is almost a weed.

A good tip is that if you don't see it growing wild, and it is a North American plant, it may well not be suitable for our area.

I have a redbud that I've had 4 years and is doing well. I fell in love with them when I lived in southern OH for a year, and really wanted one, despite now living at the northern edge of their range. I specificially researched for a strain that came from a northern source, and was thrilled to find one from Bailey nursery at a local nursery (who to their credit warned me that it was borderline around here.) I've also seen them at Plymouth State University, in Plymouth, NH, about 40 miles north of here. I do know that the Forest Pansy specimens that I saw in Cleveland, OH, were lovely, but that is much closer to their native range.

Mine gets several hours of sun a day, but is sheltered in the afternoon from heavy duty sun, since in OH redbuds grow along edges and in open woodlands. It was in a big pot when I bought it, and I just planted it, mulched it, and have left it alone since then. It blooms reliably and has gotten larger every year. So maybe you can get a hardier stain than Forest Pansy if you really want a redbud.

There is some misinformation on this thread. The Eastern Redbud is native to Massachusetts. In fact, it's native range extends into Canada. It is more prevalent down south but you will find it in the wild here, too. I have two of them that are doing great. They have been putting on quite the show this spring, too.

It is correct that a tree from a northern source will be hardier than one from a southern source, but this really only applies to people on the edge of it's native range which is z4. For z6, it shouldn't matter where the source is.

Now all of this goes out the window with the Forest Pansy cultivar. It's only hardy to z6. Anytime you buy a tree at the edge of it's hardiness range, you need to prepare for the worst although the temperatures over this past winter were not low enough to kill this tree. I'm thinking that there was a cultural practice at play here. It's not unusual to lose a tree in just it's second year if it's needs were not met. Did you continue to water it after you planted it and into it's second year? Was it sited properly? Is the soil OK in the area in which it was planted? Even though redbuds are understory trees, I would plant these trees in full sun in New England.

I checked my William Cullina book (my bible :-)) and it shows the range of Cercis canadensis from southeastern NY to PA, MI and eastern Nebraska south to northern Mexico and Florida. Is that range not correct? I have to admit I've only ever seen them in MA as planted specimums, not wild ones. Where do they grow wild around here and what kinds of conditions are they growing in?

That range isn't correct. The name "canadensis" tells you all you need to know. It's a latin term that means "indigenous to Canada". If you click on the link below, it will show you a map of this tree's native range. You can click on the abbreviation of an individual state to see the tree's native distribution in that state. You probably haven't seen one in the wild because you don't live in an area of the state in which they are naturally distributed. They aren't as ubiquitous in this part of North America as they are further south.

Here is a link that might be useful: Native range of the Eastern Redbud

Correction: the map to which TreeOracle linked does not show the native range.

"native and naturalized populations are mapped"

The web is a wonderful thing but you need to read the fine print. The disclaimer is on the state maps which are aggregated onto the main page.

Here is a link that might be useful: Forest service fact sheet on C. canadensis

And we all need to be careful about making assumptions from botanical names. The specific epithets "canadensis" and "virginiana" (and their variations) are very common. But they only mean that the type specimen was originally named for the general location from which the naming botanist, such as Linnaeus, thought it came.

And both "Canada" and "Virginia" meant much wider areas two or three centuries ago than they do today. Botanical nomenclature is a hornet's nest--but a fun one to read about.

Where do I even begin.

I think someone needs to take their own advice. The phrase, "native and naturalized populations are mapped", will be found under any state listed not just MA. Secondly, the phrase includes the word "native" which makes my point. I don't understand the conclusion that the map does not show the native range when the phrase says it does. BTW, I'm not taking my information from the USDA site. I'm just using it to illustrate what I already knew to be true.

There is a complete lack of common sense on this issue. How can a tree be native to one state and not a neighboring state. Trees do not observe state lines. The states make up the same land mass and any tree will spread out on this land mass until it reaches a point where it's cultural requirements are not met. With the redbud, it's technically hardy to z4 although this is pushing it a bit. That is why it is not native to northern New England but it's cultural requirements are met in southern New England and it is native to the region. Just because it is not common here doesn't mean it isn't native. This tree is generally considered to be native to eastern North America although it's most commonly found from New Jersey to Florida.

OH, did you think I said the legend was only on the MA map? How odd; I said "The disclaimer is on the state maps."

The legend says "native and naturalized maps are shown", so an area on the map that's colored may indicate that it's native OR that the trees have naturalized there but are not native. That seems fairly straightforward to me.

I provided a link to a map that shows the native range, which is as described by Cullina and quoted by Ellen.

Funny thing -- NEWFS does *not* have any redbuds this year, as "they did not overwinter at the grower". Hmmmmm. Not a good sign. I think I need a different pink understory tree. I have a couple of juniper virg there, so no malus, I believe. Crataegus will get too big. Cornus florida seems to have so many problems, but maybe that's the way to go? I am trying to feed the birds. Any favorite amelanchier cultivars out there?
Thx,
ML

I'm not sure what the controversy is? Native and naturalized are not the same thing, although the USDA site does lump them together based on reports of the plants growing in various states. For somebody not interested in the distinction between native and naturalized, that's not a problem. But if you are looking for plants that have evolved over time (ie not just due to humans planting them) to grow in the wild in New England, then Redbud is not technically native.

They do very well here in my cold central MA river valley, with lots of moisture and protection from north winds, but only because I planted them...

If you truly want a redbud, I think you should try another one because they are definitely hardy in your zone.

As far as other flowering trees that bloom pink, I have to recommend a cornus florida that I have called "Cherokee Brave". It's very vigorous for a dogwood and it has put on a very good show every spring since I've had it. The flowers are dark pink.

The main problem with Crataegus are the thorns. It's unbelievable that such a beautiful tree can have such huge nasty thorns on it. This genus also likes full sun so it may not flower well at your site which sounds like it gets a fair amount of shade.

I've seen a cultivar of cornus kousa around at several nurseries for years that has pink flowers. It is called Satomi. It's a nice show when it flowers and it has the added benefit of the large fruit at the end of the summer that adds to it's appeal.

Most amelanchier cultivars bloom white. There are a few exceptions but I don't recall ever seeing them for sell locally. Even then, the flowers are not a strong pink but more of a pale pink. You'll probably have to order them from a mail-order nursery. I have an amelanchier cultivar that blooms white called "Autumn Brilliance". It's a great tree. It puts on a nice flowering show in the spring, forms a lot of fruits, and as the name implies puts on a terrific foliage show each autumn.

If your site gets enough sun, you might consider a cherry such as Kwanzan or Okame. Both are fairly ubiquitous at the nurseries in this area.

Hi,
Wish I had time to look these up for you, but I'd certainly try New England Nurseries in Bedford, MA, Seasons Four in Lexington and very likely, Weston Nurseries in Hopkington.
I've got one on a hillside, and I don't think the flowers are striking from the distance I have to view them. Autumn foliage is pretty (it is autumn brilliance) but we have a 150 year old sugar maple, and that is hard to match.

Get some gardening in before those books swallow you whole!
xx Marie

Ellen,

If you are going to use that logic, then there is only one state in which the redbud is truly native and it naturalized to all others. If you were going to invoke such a definition, then just about any tree that you pick would not be native to this state.

The New England Wild Flower Society was mentioned in an earlier post. If you go to their website, they list the Redbud as a native alternative for the Silk Tree. They also list a class that you can take to learn about plants that are native to this area. I recommend that several of you sign up for this course.

We have an Eastern redbud doing quite well. Planted near a roadside it endures salt and wind. Planted at about 4 1/2 ft it is now about 18 ft after 7 years. Soil is sandy loam. There was some freeze burning of branches the first years but none after being established. It did not bloom much for the first 5 years much like new lilacs. It is blooming now and we get quite a few cars that stop and ask about it.

TreeOracle,
I'm not sure I understand your logic? Naturalized means spread through a region through human intervention (brought here from elsewhere and then naturally spread on its own). Native (as generally defined) means a plant that was growing here before European settlement.

Despite their name, New England Wild Flower Society educates about, and sells plants native to the US, not just New England. So their recommendation of Redbud as a native tree does not necessarily imply that Redbud is native to New England. In fact, it is their book (authored by William Cullina) that defines the range I mentioned earlier.

Ellen (graduate of NEWFS certificate program)

Dirr lists many cultivars of redbud, and says which are hardiest, in the Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. Of the pinks, he lists Withers Pink Charm as very hardy. Quite a few of the others are white, and he doesn't specify the color of Northland Strain, which he says is very cold tolerant.

He also mentions that sometimes these leaf out very late after a bad winter, and that they sometimes die at temperatures that they normally can survive, i.e. it may depend on other factors like wind, timing and duration of cold spell (early spring frosts being especially bad), water levels, etc.

If I'd lost one, I would use a different kind of plant as a replacement, because I'd be concerned that verticillium wilt might have played a part.

Ellen,

To aid in the comparison, I would modify your definitions to read as follows:

Native - indigenous to a region and naturally spreads on it's own
Naturalized - introduced through human intervention and naturally spreads on it's own.

Let's just say the first redbud started in Kentucky long before any humans were around. Was it capable of spreading through natural seeding to surrounding counties in KY, followed by surrounding states. Obviously, yes. Was human intervention involved? No. Could this tree have spread to New England? Yes, because as the tree spread northward it adapted to northern conditions. The tree as we know it today has cultural requirements that are easily met in southern New England.

Now having said all of this, there are many cultivars being sold around the country that are not native to the areas in which they are being sold. Clearly, human intervention is involved and you could argue that those trees are naturalized into those areas. I think that is why the site that I linked to earlier talks about native AND naturalized populations. It is unusual to use both terms when referring to the same land mass because given enough time, the tree will migrate to the new areas on it's own as long as it's cultural requirements are met. That is why this tree is advertised as native to eastern North America and not Kentucky if you want to use my fictitious example.

Mayalena - You asked about trees to feed the birds? I tend to say this a lot, but one of my favorite trees is pagoda dogwood, Cornus alternifolia. It has lacy flowers, sort of like creamy-white Queen Ann's lace that mature into clusters of deep blue-purple berries in early August (don't plant near things that might get stained.) The berry stems are bright red. In autumn the leaves turn a combination of colors that make me think of an almost-ripe peach - light greenish-yellow, yellow, light orange. No disease problems at all, and here they grow from full sun to full shade, though they are denser and bloom better with more sun. When the berries are ripe, the entire tree that is just off my back patio positively quivers with birds eating the fruit. The winter branch structure is really nice as well - truly an all-season tree, though not overpoweringly stunning in any season except the two weeks of bloom.

At our last house we had a crabapple that was a great food source for birds returning in early spring: cedar waxwings, robins, and ruffed grouse all came and gobbled the frost-softened and sweetened fruit. In addition the spring flowers and the fall fruit were decorative. Crabapples come in a variety of sizes, so you should be able to find one that's a good size for you.

A couple large shrubs that the birds enjoy the fruits of include many of the viburnums and hollies, both winterberry deciduous holly (Ilex verticillata) and the evergreen ones. You need a male to go with your female berry-bearing plant. The viburnums need another cultuvar of the same or similar species to fruit well. There is an old thread on the shrubs forum on viburnums (if it hasn't fallen off) that tells what kinds of viburnums will fertilize what other kinds.

Recently I bought a forest pansy from NYBG. It was potbound, so a week later I transplanted into a larger container, it also appeared to be wilting slightly. I have it on a very sunny roofdeck here in NYC. It is in full sun and watered deeply. The leaves are curling in and some of the inner ones are yellowing. I thought this tree would be fine in this location, but I'm wondering why this is happening. We are having a really hot week- perhaps that's it? Any ideas?

genatac, I am definitely not a tree expert and would not have answered this question but for the holiday and I think there may be few around to respond. I would say that it sounds like it is too hot and may have too much sun. A rooftop is as hot and sunny as it gets, I would imagine, and don't forget the wind factor too. If it is in a larger container and can't be moved, for today and for awhile until the heat wave diminishes and/or the tree acclimates, I would figure a way to shade it, if at all possible. The other thing you can do, is call the NYBG where you bought it and ask them for advice on whether this tree is meant for those conditions etc. That's about all I can think of....

I am in southern Maine in an area that used to be zone 5 and is in zone 6 according to the new maps. You do see Redbud around here. However, they are notoriously fickle. hence the nickname "dead bud". They seem to do best (from what I have seen) in "village" type areas where the houses are on smaller lots. That means less wind moving through, more hot top and concrete for warming, etc. I wish I had a good location for one, but I do not. My lot is very windy. I managed to kill a Magnolia this year, in fact.

Just noticed that this thread was revived, and I had a fun time rereading all the sniping from last year! My, we've developed some skill at dealing with troll-like creatures on this forum.

Genatac, I agree with everything PM2 said. I'd shade that plant as much as possible, until this dreadful heatwave passes, and make sure the soil isn't overheating to the point of cooking the roots - make sure you have some nice fluffy mulch on the soil, preferably light colored.

There's no chance you planted it deeper than it was growing, is there? The flare at the base of the trunk should still be clearly visible, if it's got one.

And when you water, you need a drip applied directly to the rootball, not just to the soil you've added around the perimeter. Last, if the soil has peat in it, it may drain too fast after being really dry, so it needs to be soaked whenever that happens. A tray under the pot should be left full of water until the soil's saturated, then it should be allowed to drain out. Really dry peaty soils will just let the water run through, and the plant doesn't get access to the water it needs.

Good luck!
- DtD