kt, I'm sorry this has sat here so long with no one commenting on it. I don't know anything about the publishing industry or about who are considered the best writers. I am at a strange in-between stage in my development as a gardener, a stage maybe somewhat akin to being a teenager.

Anyway, I can never find anything at the bookstore that really suits my needs. And lately I've taken to borrowing everything I want to read from the library, rather than filling my house floor to ceiling with books (don't laugh, that has been the state in the past). I finally clicked on the link you provided to that old thread, and it prompted me to Google Ken Druse and request a couple of his books from the library -- the propagation book that he mentions and the one called The Natural Habitat Garden. I hope they're good, and if they are, I just might lay down the money and buy them from Amazon.

That is a fascinating thread and if I had time and others had the patience, I could write a book..no pun intended...on the subject. Garden books are an important part of gardening...and of the culture of the time. I am always sorry to see people say that their favorite garden book is the inevitable "Well Tended Perennial Garden" or something like it. Useful, like plumbing, but ultimately not what gardening is all about for those who truly love gardens. And there are so many garden-lovers on this forum.

I purchased "The Natural Habitat Garden" by Ken Druse a year/two ago. I have enjoyed it very much and it's been very usedful for me.

I've always enjoyed the native plant material in my area and on our lot. I like that the "natives" offer great all season interest while requiring minimal human intervention ("care"). Anyway, that book has helped me use the native plants as a quiet, uninsistant backdrop of carefully selected "specimen plantings".

Another title I've enjoyed a good deal is, "The Woodland Garden, Planting in Harmony With Nature" (revised edition) by Roy Forster and Alex Downie; c.2004 by Firefly Books, Ltd..

The recommendations came from the good folk on the Landscape Design forum in response to my frustrated post about breaking out of the contrived, "sunny border" mindset.

I was away when this was originally posted, but I used to hang around the garden writers forum a lot. I have a good sized bookcase devoted to garden books, and love reading them during the winter. Druse is one of my favorite authors; his "The Collector's Garden" is really fun (though certainly not a "how to" book in any sense). I like Hayward's design ideas, and also collect books by people like Hobhouse and Dillon - good writers and great gardeners.

My local bookstore has a small gardening section, and I try to buy books there, just to encourage them to keep stocking them. It's also nice to be able to look at the book before you buy it.

LOL about Tracy Disabato-Aust, Ginny - I don't think she'd appreciate being compared to a plumber, but I agree, she's not exactly inspirational. I collect books with great photos of interesting gardens, and you just can't have too many of those.

I bought and read the DiSabato-Aust book on a recommendation from someone on GW, and you're right, it makes gardening seem like an awful lot of work. I mean it IS a lot of work, but it isn't a fun or entertaining book to read. I got two Ken Druse books from the library after reading the thread that kt linked to, and I liked The Natural Habitat Garden the best. I'm planning to actually go out and buy it, it seemed like a good resource book to have.

I have the American Horticultural Society's Propagation book, and while I liked Ken Druse's writing in his propagation book, I didn't think I could justify buying it as well.

Chelone, what you said, about the Natural Habitat book helping you to use the native plants as a quiet, uninsistant backdrop of carefully selected "specimen plantings" is exactly what I want to achieve with a five-year plan in my garden.

I'm going to check out the others at the library.

Dawiff,

One of the things I've noticed about my "evolution" as a gardener is that I'm infinitely more appreciative of what grows all around the cultivated portion of our yard.

I grew up west of Boston and our backyard abutted a brook. Mum was ALL about letting Nature have a part of the yard, too. Our next door neighbor "filled and levelled" to add a perfect lawn. Yawn! We had skunk cabbage, Osmunda cinnamomea, Arisaema tryphillum, and host of other fascinating and often ephemeral plants. We had salamanders, too. It was wonderful to be able to walk the short path through that wonderland so full of interesting things. None of the neighborhood kids cared a FIG about the perfect lawn, lol. They wanted to hang out at my house where it was "wild" and you could actually find amphibians.

Our home is in the center of our massive, 2.75 acre "estate". Sometimes I wish it was sunnier, but when I look at the stand of Osmunda cinnamomea and put a price tag on the MATURE plants that happily occupy a wet, southerly locale I'm OK with things as they are. They are happy campers, returning year in, year out and I don't have to DO anything to maintain the "show".

So, I'm all about using the natives and carefully selecting and placing the things that will indulge my propensity for intervention/"show" with an eye to easy care/maintenance.

My goal is an enclosing, shrub border that provides privacy, habitat with minimal care. A border that initially APPEARS natural, but one that only those who know their plant material will realize is partially contrived and conceived by a humanoid. Low maintenance and easy care go hand in hand with an understanding of the locale one wants to plant. Our lot is low and to the "wet" side; we plant material that will prosper in those conditions. Really "special" indulgences are planted close to the house in the cultivated area.

The first time I "got" that concept was wandering around the groves surrounding Versailles. Everything LOOKED "natural", but it was only after careful scrutiny that I realized how planned it all was. I began looking at shrub planting differently from that point on.

Personally, I've found this a rather challenging project, requiring a lot of careful observation, a good deal of patience, and a lot of compromise. It's taken longer than I'd've liked but I'm liking the results. Ken Druse's books were encouraging.

Best to you!

I like Ken Druse a lot also...I have his Propagation book and the Natural Habitat Garden which was inspirational to me. Until that point I had never heard of a name for the type of garden that I cultivate!

Like others have written here, I have learned over time to be more of an observer and less of a control freak on my property. I watch for what grows naturally on the property and take my cue from that, incorporating those plants into my landscaping and allowing them to flourish - within reason. I do a lot of weeding out of the "bad" stuff and watch for "good" stuff to seed in. It's amazing what will grow if you allow it.

The key to this type of gardening is to know thy weeds. Learn to identify and pull the invasive plants when they are small, and learn to recognize seedlings of native plants, and encourage them. It's not a low maintenance gardening style but it certainly gives you a real connection to your gardens in a way that is very different to the weed 'n feed, mulch and mow everything gardening mentality...

Great points, Ellen and Chelone! Like Dawiff, I'd like to have a garden that looks, at first glance, like a natural setting.

Since I live in an "in town" area, I don't have much room - and no stream or anything like that - but I've reserved a section of my back yard for what we call the woods, all of about 25 x 25 feet. Not much actual native material there, but a wild and sheltered feeling. It's much more work than it looks like, but it's a great place to work when it's too hot anywhere else in the yard; it's always cool there, and there's always something unexpected to see. I need to figure out how to create a seating area there that does not look like it was "installed" - tricky since there is no native stone in this area other than irregular cobbles.

Along these lines, there's an interesting book by Claire Saywer called The Authentic Garden: Cultivating a Sense of Place (or something like that, I seem to have misplaced my copy!).

Some of my favorite things, even in the cultivated areas of my garden, are volunteers that appeared out of nowhere; a giant asparagus in front of the house, strawberries cavorting in a mixed bed -these are clearly not natives, but it;s also pretty clear (I hope!) that the resident gardener didn't put them there. Just a little chaos to spice things up, I guess.

Dawiff,
I am thrilled you checked Druse out and found him to be a worthwhile read. One of my favorites that has yet to be mentioned is "The Natural Shade Garden" where he not only examines the differences in the different degrees and definitions of light, ie shade, full shade, part shade, ect in a way that is clear enough for the beginning gardener but also explores how to modify shade with a pruning primer early on in the book. In my opinion he has the rare talent which Rick Darke does as well of understanding natural light in the garden. I have always wondered why landscape designers have not included the capturing of natural light by plants being as important as the fundamentals of spatial definition, proportion and scale, form, pattern, texture, tone, and color.
Ginny,
SoooÂ. when are we getting together to write our book?? I couldnÂt agree with you more regarding the "Well Tended Perennial Garden" it is much like Allen ArmitageÂs books an invaluable reference but nothing beyond that. I find that gardening much like I imagine cooking, would to be more of an art than a science, yes both depend heavily on science but the art of gardening does not end with the knowledge of any particular plants needs to thrive.
Chelone,
Wow, what a well written description of your journey as a gardener. A border that initially APPEARS natural, but one that only those who know their plant material will realize is partially contrived and conceived by a humanoid. Low maintenance and easy care go hand in hand with an understanding of the locale one wants to plant. This has been a long time goal for me but all too often I find myself stuffing some new cultivar that I just had to have in the mix and it stands out like a hooker at a debutantes ball. I also struggle with transitional plantings between the woodland and more formal cultivated areas.
Ellen,
I have learned over time to be more of an observer and less of a control freak on my property. I watch for what grows naturally on the property and take my cue from that, incorporating those plants into my landscaping and allowing them to flourish - within reason. I do a lot of weeding out of the "bad" stuff and watch for "good" stuff to seed in. It's amazing what will grow if you allow it. I have been attempting to encourage some native grass to take over in some areas and have found mowing to be more successful as the grass doesnÂt mind it and the other native ground covers are stressed, unhappy and hopefully will eventually not return.
Dtd
I need to figure out how to create a seating area there that does not look like it was "installed" - tricky since there is no native stone in this area other than irregular cobbles. What would you think of a driftwood trunk? You might even convince your workmates to give up some space on board so you can bring home driftwood from afar!!!!

kt, Thanks for defining the focus of Ken Druse's The Natural Shade Garden. I wasn't quite sure how it would differ or what value it added if I was already checking out The Natural Habitat Garden (which also covers wetlands and woodlands, which are shady). But it sounds like it could help me in defining the type or degree of shadiness I have. LOL at the hooker at a debutante's ball.

Chelone, your garden and your development as a gardener sound similar to mine, although you are several steps ahead of me. I also have some natives like ferns (sone kind of Dryopteris and sensitive fern) and skunk cabbage that I let grow where they want. But unfortunately, I also have loads of non-native invasives, like oriental bittersweet, autumn olive, and multiflora rose, and natives that I don't want like poison ivy, pokeweed and jewelweed that would just take over if I let them. But a control freak I am most definitely not. My lot is low and wet as well. I would love to see pictures of your garden. When we first moved here 25 years ago we had lots of salamanders, which fascinated my DS. But they have since disappeared. We still get loads of frogs and snakes and turtles.

I'll be checking out some of the other books recommended by other posters here too.

Here's a question for those trying for a natural looking garden: How do you integrate paths into it? Right now I have gravel paths. I started out with bark mulch paths, but they grew just as many weeds as the beds, so I gave up on that idea. I spend enough time weeding the beds, I don't need to weed the paths too.

Paths... (a subject near and dear to my heart)

I'll be honest, I LIKE paths! and I like paths that look like paths. They were one of the nicest features of the woodlands and groves surrounding Versailles (IMO). I took care of my elderly mother in my home for 3 1/2 yrs. and the 4' wide stonedust paths allowed her to SAFELY negotiate the gardens on her own. We would snowblow them and the sun would finish the job, the moisture draining away safely, never freezing and leaving icy places. It was really a godsend because she was able to get out daily for fresh air and sunshine and keep moving, forestalling the inevitable decline that comes with strokes and advanced age. I gained a new appreciation for accessiblity in those years and when visiting lovely gardens with uneven, natural stone paths and irregular stairs the first thing I think of is that they are open invitations for twisted ankles or falls. Lovely and romantic? unquestionably! but I think a neat gravel/stonedust path and good stairs can be every bit as attractive. (personal opinion)

My late FIL was a landscape architect and did a considerable amount of work on several state parks. One of the best things I gleaned from him was the necessity of some sacrifice to gain access and derive more enjoyment from "wild" areas. What is "lost" is usually more than made up for by the ability to actually get out and see what's nearby. My love of pathways is my nod to the formality I love in gardens but have never been able to achieve in any convincing manner.

To that end, we have decided to continue with our personal "interstate system", increasing widths to 5' or 6' where we're able. 4' is really too narrow for two people to stroll side by side and it's too narrow to facilitate easy access with a small tractor. We have decided to "go gracious"

I believe that most of Garden in the Woods paths are now stone-dust. I know they had a problem with wood mulched paths washing away in the past.

If the path is level, peastone gravel makes a great path. In natural areas, I am playing around with a base of peastone with small cobblestones pushed into it. It looks great, but it's a lot of work!! I'm only doing this in small areas. Flat rocks and flagstones can also work as a path, just pushed into the grass, and mowed right over.

I wanted to mention again for anyone who may not have stumbled on it Ken Druse has a nice web page that also includes the pod casts from his sirus radio show Real Dirt. The topics of this gardening show are unlike most tv gardening shows, not focused solely on the beginning gardener, are timely, and relevant to the east coast. So why do I have a hard time listening to the show? I am not sure perhaps I am expecting too much, in my opinion there is an over attempt at playful banter between Druse and Vicky. I would much rather that time be filled with content. I am not sure why the contemporary format of dispensing information in the electronic media insists that I believe the folks dispensing this information are all best friends. One of the most blatant examples of this are the morning news/talk shows. Drives me crazy and frankly I just donÂt care if they a friends or not just give me the information. Perhaps I am just so starved for a gardening show that has meat that I am just too intolerant. I would love to know what you think of Real Dirt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ken Druse - Real Dirt