Direct vent has no safety issues and is by far the most efficient fireplace. There are some vent limitations I believe but nothing significant in a small room.

We're putting two direct vents in our house. A portrait style in the corner of the master bedroom that will be visible from the bed and the sitting area & a free standing, direct vent gas stove with a vintage look for our cozy keeping room off the kitchen. They can have a small footprint and are very efficient, as well as safe.

What manufacturers are you looking at?

drjoann - no idea! We are putting two regular masonry fireplaces in and I had no idea this was even an option. In trying to rework my house plans we added a very small (10 x 12) study to the right of my entrance hall but we don't want another chimney!

No idea such a thing even existed so I didn't think a fireplace was even a possibility for that room, but I really wanted it as the location will likely make it a dead end room (which I don't like, although it will have a pair of slim french doors opening onto the front, perhaps onto a patio) so I wanted something to make the study a destination.

We may panel it but also may do shiplap as a less expensive option.

Do you have any recs as far as manufacturers go? My only wish is to have a herringbone firebox - and to have it look as much like a real fireplace as possible. All gas is preferable because of the location so we don't have to haul wood in from the screened porch.

Quick google showed that Napoleon, Monessen, Avalon have herringbone patterns. I'm sure there are more.

What is so neat about a direct vent is that the vent is coaxial so that the outside doesn't get hot.

Ours is a Lennox, although I don't remember the exact one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lennox Fireplaces

I have also seen nice ones at Majestic (also known as Vermont Castings) --- their Chateau model is pretty, and looks real --- I think it has a herringbone pattern as well. I looked at Isokern last week and was very impressed with their fireplaces, though I do think a chimney is required. You can choose a herringbone pattern, a running bond or any other as it is completed on site, not a panel like many of the other manufacturers. I would also like the gas for some of my interior fireplaces for the same reason as you---lugging logs into a dining room for example (though having 3 boys for you and for me, this should be no problem :-). I plan to use a Peterson gas log in the Isokern fireplace. Another thing I really like about the Isokern is that it dosn't have the glass panel on the front.

Anyway, I don't know where you are in your plans, but wanted to mention the Isokern because it might work for some of your applications --- not sure about the study though without the chimney....

Good luck and I look forward to hearing other responses as I am in 'fireplace mode' myself!

Rachel

Here is a link that might be useful: Isokern

Thank Rachel - we are in the very very beginning. We actually planned on masonry fireplaces for our other two areas (den which will also serve basement fireplace) and keeping room (which will also serve screened porch and another basement fireplace).

I just stumbled upon direct vents when trying to figure out if I could put a fireplace in our small study . . .

I really appreciate the hints and name brands. I will have to go and check them out. I am going to ask my architect about recs too so I will likely be asking questions about others.

Dumb question from new homebuilder: Why would you opt for a direct vent fireplace if you have a chimney vs a masonry one, other than the fact that the masonry ones aren't efficient which I don't care about - the less heat the better in my view as we will be turning it on for atmosphere not heat :)

Is it less expensive to have a direct vent? Is it just easier because they are prefab? Wondering if we should investigate for our other applications.

As far as hauling in logs, my boys range from 9 to 4 so I have a few years yet before they will be helpful in that regard!

I think many people choose direct vent throughout, mainly because full masonry can be cost prohibitive, and for the efficiency. Gas logs are sold as the "green option," so there is that element too vs. woodburning. I certainly like the look of the masonry better, but we have 5 fireplaces in our plan as well, so I am looking for a few ways to reduce the expense, while still getting the look I am after. That is how I stumbled upon the Isokern --- it is just a "modular" way of creating a masonry fireplace, therefore saving some money versus a full masonry fireplace --- the dealer I spoke with in Charlotte said that I could generally figure half the expense of full masonry, but more than the direct vents. I think it is all a matter of preference, because I love the woodburning idea, but with 3 youngish boys (9, 7 and 4), I'm just not sure we'd sit still long enough to really enjoy the fire. Right now, we have a gas fireplace on our screened porch --- today, the kids run out, play, get tired and a bit cold (though it is in the 60's today) and they plop down, turn on the fireplace (flip the switch) for 5 minutes, then run off and play again...Given that we might want to convert to woodburning in the future, I plan to have the plumber install a shut off switch both the fireplace, and outside the fireplace. With that set-up, we can start off day one with a gas log, but down the road, if we want, we can remove the log and use the fireplace as woodburning (after we shut off the gas outside the fireplace).

We are in the beginning too --- we have a plan and are still working on it, but hoping the break ground this spring. Sounds like we have some similarities!

I have put three direct vent fireplace in our new home. In this area all masonry is the standard and if we ever have to sell I don't know how it will be received. It is a high end home but for efficiency and cost we opted for the direct vent. The direct vent has the permanent glass across the front. They make them now so that it can be very difficult to even tell without looking very close that the glass is there. We went with the Mendota in the family room and kitchen and a Heat & Glow in the bedroom. I took a couple of very picky friends to look at them to tell me if they looked "cheesy" and they were shocked at how beautiful they were. They have remote controls on the Mendota where you can actually use it as a furnace and have the remote control back by the sofa and set it at a certain degrees and it will keep your room and that level.

Our city would not allow a prefab gas, it was either masonry or direct vent. These government regulations drive me crazy. I would have gone with a prefab gas over a masonry but couldn't. I didn't want to deal with the logs and mess at this point in our lives and have a problem with smell from the logs lingering because of headache problems so we ended up with the direct vent.

From talking to my friends with masonry without the gas logs they end up not using them very much. Everyone is so busy that the feature of being able to just turn it on and off is very appealing and yet you still have the ambiance. Some people just need the real thing though to enjoy it.

Decisions, decisions :)

Thank you all for all the input. My parents recently put gas logs in a gas starter fireplace in their living room. They are gas starter with wood burning in their den and library. They opted for no remote control (although their logs did offer that option). Personally I love the remote control as I will be much more likely to use it . . . We will probably put gas logs in all fireplaces except screened porch initially. There are very realistic gas logs now - in fact, my parents asked if our gas logs were real on Christmas Eve and they are builders grade - sure it improves if you step up a bit.

Interesting to know about the ability to convert. Like you - gas logs are a convenience thing for me but I don't want to commit myself to permanent all gas.

Rachel - our boys are 9, 7 and 4 also, and my sister is in Charlotte. Are you there? You may know her :)

All of the builders I have talked to here are doing isokern now. They look great, are lighter weight, being made of lava rock, and eliminate the need for a highly skilled mason. We are doing a double back to back Isokern woodburning unit for our family room and screen porch fireplaces. We will have a direct vent Isokern in the living room, where our fires will be more infrequent and I just don't want the mess.

Also, the difference between masonry and isokern, based on the preliminary pricing I got back, is about $12,000 per fireplace - or maybe that was just for the double sided. At any rate, it was a substantial savings.

For me it was all about convenience. I dont want to cut wood or buy wood, haul it home, haul it in, dont want to deal with bark or bugs, dont want to deal with ashes, don't want to chance the smoke and and clean the soot... oh that is another reason, I am allergic to smoke, and I am hardly around it so I forget about that, so I guess that is now at the top of the list ha.

Okay, so originally, it was all about being user friendly and convenient, and efficiency was next and a nice bonus that it actually would heat the room if wanted but you dont have to turn on the blowers, and then the cost was the last factor.

Been there done all that other stuff. Just want a nice little fire, then turn it off and forget about it.

Buckheadhillbilly, do you mind if I ask whether your double-sided Isokerns are see-through or solid backed?

They are solid backed. One is on the screen porch and the other behind it in the family room. I saw a back to back unit in a house under construction, so I believe that is an option with Isokern, although the builder may have just fashioned it to be back to back. Looking at the website, it looks like they do have an option for double sided

Here is a link that might be useful: double sided isokern option

I'd just like to second (or third) the opinion that you will use a gas fireplace so much more often than wood. You will also use a direct vent so much more often than gas logs that aren't direct vent.

I've had all three in NC. I was pretty busy with work with my wood fireplace and used it I don't know what the weather is like in Athens but I assume it is just a few degrees warmer than here. Efficiency is important. When you know it is free (or nearly cost equivalent to your furnace), you will likely use it a lot more often and get that much more enjoyment out of it.

Saying things like "I don't care about efficiency" might raise the ire of some people (myself included).

This is a great discussion - we are going to have three fireplaces in our house, and all were quoted as masonry. To be honest, I just accepted that and didn't question it much further, although I did indicate that I wanted the fireplace in the loggia to be as cost efficient as possible. I had heard about isokern, as it was touted as a great thing in a already built house I was looking at (before we decided to build). Looks like I have some research to do!

Thanks for all the input!

David - not trying to raise your ire :) I guess I am saying that from the standpoint of having a masonry fireplace now. We don't use it for heat, and so it is not something I am used to even considering. You are right though - it is masonry with gas starter and gas logs, and we don't turn it on much because even the bending down with the lighter is more effort than we want to make some days (WOW that sounds lazy!!!) As you can see, ours is not remote control!

As far as efficiency, part of the reason we don't use the masonry fireplace for heat is it gets very hot right next to it, but doesn't really warm the room. Is this what you mean, or just that a lot of heat escapes through the chimney?

And Buckhead - thanks again for another super useful tip! I guess that answers my question about whether Isokern does direct vent. Is that the one for your bedroom? I assume there will be no chimney there? That might be worth investigating for my den depending on the cost and look with two chimneys instead of one.

12,000 is nothing to shake a stick at :) After all, I do hope to be able to decorate the place when all is said and done!

Also glad to know they can put them back to back. As you know we have the same situation in our keeping room and screened porch. Are you doing gas both places or wood outside (which is what I think we will do, but haven't decided yet!)?

Next question, can you stack the fireplaces? We will have two fireplaces in our basement below the upstairs fireplaces, at least that is the current plan. One (in the basement den type area) will likely stay in some form. The other (in the gameroom area) is there just because there will already be a chimney, so cost could definitely sway that decision.

Thanks to all you very knowledgeable folks!

Buckhead - see you are doing wood in living and screened :) Thanks again!

One more question about the Isokern. It seems like they don't offer a direct vent but only a B vent? My understanding is a b vent needs to be vented vertically through either a masonry or metal chimney, which may mean we can't use it in our study on the front of the house (don't want another masonry chimney and don't want a metal chimney on the front). We can easily vent horizontally as it will be on the front and side of our house on the non garage side so very unobtrusive.

Thanks again! You guys are great!
Am I understanding this correctly?

Wow, this is all so helpful, thanks! We had 4 masonry chimneys drawn on our house, and Builder suggestd switching some to direct vent. Builder said most heat goes straight up the chimney with masonry, and the others heat the room up much, much better. My husband likes the house to feel like a sauna, so he wants to switch all of them to direct vent. I don't like heat, so we'll probably compromise....

Gardengirl, I particularly appreciate that you & friends researched this for me, for the 'cheesy' factor. I will go research, thanks!

highjumpgirl - check out Isokern. It looks as far as I can tell like a masonry fireplace. You don't have to have glass on it which is a benefit for me. In fact, if you have glass doors you have to open them to burn it.

The direct vent ones (again from what I can tell) all have glass in front of them. Even the clear view ones with no doors have glass, but just recessed into the fire box. Also, it appears you can get some nice looking custom glass doors which work with various manufacturers so you are not limited to the doors on the fireplace. Or you can get a clear view and put a pretty screen in front.

Athensmom, I understand what you mean about not wanting another chimney. Isokern seems to have something called 'offset block' which according to their description allows you to 'move vertical chimney from side to side to pass objects above the firebox.' I am not sure how far you would need to move it, but it might be possible to use this configuration to get the venting out to the other chimney area. Also, this might be how the stacking works. I scanned a page from their catalog that shows how the stacking works...The guy I spoke with in the Charlotte sales office was named Scott --- he was very helpful about the technical details as well as the possible configurations.
I am not in Charlotte itself, but in Davidson, which is a little town on the north side of Charlotte. Is your sister in Charlotte?
So glad to hear other good feedback about the Isokern. I really liked it when I went to the showroom, and then went the next day to look at some other fireplace 'units.' The Isokern looked great in comparison.

We used 2 Isokerns in the house we're having built. One is outside on a porch and the other in our great room. They will both be faced with stone. I really wanted masonry but it was just cost prohibitive.

I love a real woodburning fireplace but I don't like some of the issues. The one outside will have a gas line installed but we plan to use wood. The one inside will be gas only.

We also have 3 other fireplaces inside. The bedroom fireplace is direct vent. We have ventless in the study and livingroom. Our building code would not allow ventless in a bedroom.

Yes, all the heat goes up the chimney but much more importantly is that it draws conditioned air up the chimney with it so that the net effect is to not heat up your conditioned space at all. It feels hot nearby but it is actually drawing your heat up and putting it in the chimney.

Also, each chimney becomes a leak for conditioned air. So that even in the summer when you are not using it, there is conditioned air lost.

Who remembers to close the flume each time? Even if closed it leaks plenty.

I think I remember a 7% number as in each fireplace adds 7% to your HVAC costs. Really really hard to believe but I thinks that counts really old fireplaces that are particularly leaky.

I think very few people know this or think about it. But either way, a direct vent is 70-80% efficient nearly matching an old gas furnace. It also heats where you are which helps the efficiency from a practical standpoint.

highjump, I'm interested in hearing what you think of the direct vent after you get a chance to look at a few. Keep in touch :)

Hi all, I think you probably have your question answered Athensmom but just to add another 2 cents...we found the full-masonry to be less $$ than the Isokern.

Our plans also called for stacking fireplaces (three, one on top of another: basement media room, family room, master bedroom) and we priced both the Isokern and full-masonry (no prefab boxes at all, all masonry through and through - sorry to be redundant but sometimes people don't know what I mean I have realized). Given the state of the building economy, we found full-masonry to be much less expensive than the Isokern system with a masonry veneer. Now, of course it has been months so I can't remember the difference.

We also wanted oversize fireplaces and ash dumps, air exchanges, etc. which were going to be harder (impossible) with the Isokern, but I still would have gone with it to save the worry of the skill level of the masons. Thank goodness, they did a great job and the fires burn beautifully.

When I did the research I thought the Isokern systems looked really great, but we made most of our decisions on cost and this was one of them.

I saw the arrangement that mythreesons scanned in several houses under construction. Isokern's system is like fireplace legos. You can shift the chimney to go around a firebox upstairs or just to balance out the shape of the room above. The builders here seem to love them. The one country builder I talked to is still building full mansonry fireplaces, but his price for the fireplaces was quite a bit higher.

katrinavhh, It may be more economical to do masonry when you have a three story deal all sharing one chimney. Sounds like a neat arrangement!

Hi all, I think you probably have your question answered Athensmom but just to add another 2 cents...we found the full-masonry to be less $$ than the Isokern.

Our plans also called for stacking fireplaces (three, one on top of another: basement media room, family room, master bedroom) and we priced both the Isokern and full-masonry (no prefab boxes at all, all masonry through and through - sorry to be redundant but sometimes people don't know what I mean I have realized). Given the state of the building economy, we found full-masonry to be much less expensive than the Isokern system with a masonry veneer. Now, of course it has been months so I can't remember the difference.

We also wanted oversize fireplaces and ash dumps, air exchanges, etc. which were going to be harder (impossible) with the Isokern, but I still would have gone with it to save the worry of the skill level of the masons. Thank goodness, they did a great job and the fires burn beautifully.

When I did the research I thought the Isokern systems looked really great, but we made most of our decisions on cost and this was one of them.

Thanks katrinavh - we will price it both ways also. I will be making this decision on cost as well so good to have options!

To my knowledge gas fireplaces are generally available as:

open hearth B-vent (double-wall vent to roof)
glass enclosed B-vent (double-wall vent to roof)
glass enclosed direct vent (through the wall vent)
glass enclosed catalytic vent-free (vents to room)

Is there a reason you did not consider the B-vent types?

Here is what a direct vent looks like on the outside of a house:

macv -

The only reason the b-vent didn't come up on my radar is that the room will be on the front of the house, and I was hoping to avoid another masonry chimney for cost and aesthetics. I am not a fan of a wood chimney or stucco chimney on a non stucco house. The direct vent could be on the exterior, side, non garage wall so very inobtrusive. The glass front is not particularly appealing to me, even if it is a clear front one without the louvers, but I think it might be workable with a pretty screen or simple doors.

I gathered from what I read that the b vent must vent vertically and it would have to take a pretty long span horizontally before it could either tie into a chimney (if that is possible) or vent as a metal chimney on the rear of the house.

Am I understanding this right? As far as the study/library goes, my architect is afraid the fireplace will swallow up too much of what is to be a tiny little room. He is sending me his revised sketch today so we will see where it stands.

Very useful info for all our other applications though!

How big is the room?

That is a good question! New addition to the sketch. He is faxing it today . . . I specifically requested small as we don't have much square footage to work with, I miss having a study which was in the original plan at 15 x 16, and it eliminates the need for bath/closets at the front of the house (with constantly closed blinds). I was thinking cozy little nook with a writing desk and a couple of club chairs but we will see what he comes up with. . ..

When we had a high level discussion about masonry vs isokern from a cost perspective, an my builder echoed what many are saying on this thread - that his guy does masonry for the same or a bit less than isokern.

I still haven't done my research since the search feature isn't working on Gardenweb, but I got the impression that masonry is better in general.

I have a masonry fireplace in the family room, vinyl tile floor and direct access to the porch where the wood lives. We use it fairly often. In the nice great room with wood floors and no outside door access, we have the direct vent gas fireplace. It's not used very much, cause we don't spend a lot of time in there. Still like having both options. Sometimes it's nice to just flip a switch and the fire is on!

Ok macv - I have an answer for you :) 12 x 12 so I think I can lose 2 feet for a fireplace and bookshelves and still make it work. . . have to draw it out to be sure. It is actually slightly bigger than my current living room which is cozy but has plenty of room as well, even fully furnished. . .

Here is a 12x12 TV Den with a gas fireplace. The fireplace took up 14 inches, the straight hearth took up 9 inches and the curved hearth added 4 inches.

Talked to my architect today and he said that Isokern/Firebrick and there is one other manufacturer is what he was drawing into this house. He said they aren't as deep so they work better when you are putting them into smaller sized rooms (our den is 19 x 17 wide with the fireplace on the end but part of the 19 is taken up with wallway needs, as is part of the 17). He said he liked them a lot and uses them a lot because they don't have the depth requirements of traditional masonry and also they do a much better job of heating the room.

We are going for a more cozy, older house look and so we are trying to keep rooms functional size but not huge - no great rooms, etc.

So I guess we are getting Isokern style fireplaces :)

I've only skimmed all the detailed posts in this thread, but I just had to chime in that I HATE my direct-vent fireplace. It just never seems right, and the booklet that came with it said to crack a window while using it. sigh... Plus, for us, it was the only gas appliance, so we didn't even turn it on most winters. I wish it was electric instead! My new house's fireplace (built by Ryland) is supposed to be direct vent as well. I don't really have a choice. We are putting it in since most people in our price range expect a fireplace.

xine - I am going to doubt that is a direct-vent fireplace. There would be no reason to crack a window. Now a vent-less - that is a different story.

I believe the Isokern B vent gas fireplace is twice as deep as a conventional factory built B vent gas fireplace unit which doesn't appear to meet your original goal. In fact, it's only 4 inches shallower than a conventional full depth zero-clearance wood burning fireplace. Am I missing something?

xine does appear to have a vent-free gas fireplace. I guess you could say it vents "directly" into the room.

macv - he was talking about using isokern for our other 5 fireplaces (2 in basement, one screened porch, one den, one keeping), not the fireplace in the small study, which is 12 x 12, where there is currently not one.

I think he was talking about the depth difference between traditional masonry and isokern standard - he did say the fireplace was 2 feet (?), and the back to back isokern (in keeping and screened porch) is 4 feet. As one is on an interior wall and one is a back to back fireplace, we don't have the option of pushing the chimney outside, and our rooms are not very big so the 2 feet for the fireplace and 20 inches for the hearth make a difference I am finding!

I think the plans are getting very close to being finalized and we were able to put two doors in the study (one from entrance hall and one connecting den and study with walk through butler's pantry like bar in the short hallway, which is a great place for the bar which we have been struggling with). I am going to have an interior designer look over the plans to be sure about room size as far as furniture placement, sight lines, flow, etc. and I will have her weigh in about the fireplace as well.

How deep is a traditional b-vent? If we just have to find a foot for it that is less problematic. . . The hearth doesn't bother me as you can easily push an ottoman right up to the hearth (it will not be raised) if you need to. I still would like to have one but now that the room is not a dead end I feel much better about it not being necessary.

Macv - love the fireplace and surroundings, but also interested in the wood flooring. Is it Brazilian Cherry? Who the manufacturer and where did you purchase?

The depth of a conventional B vent gas fireplace varies from 16" to 22" in my experience.

The wood flooring is some kind of prefinished cherry that the owner selected. I'll ask if I run into her anytime soon.