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midwestmama_gw

Talk me down from my ledge... ;)

16 years ago

We have a builder that we have planned on using. The only part we've actually hired him for so far is the plans and getting the bid all put together. We haven't signed on to the contract to build. We've held off on this until we are really ready to build. Then we need to have an attorney look the contract over.

So along the way the builder has gotten on my nerves, and I am sure I have done the same. To pick him we spoke with previous and current clients, checked their history with the BBB, went to houses they have and were building, and did the same with multiple other builders. This one seemed significantly better.

The part we have paid for states "unlimited" changes to the plans. We made some major changes several times. After the last round he said they'd have to start to charge us if we changed more. Made me wonder what they'd try to change on us in the real build. Also, I have brought numerous things that we are definately wanting in the build and we still have to fight repeatedly for them, things like geothermal heat, hide-a-house for the CV, etc... I think I've asked to hear the price of a standing seam metal roof at least 5 times. No answer.

So, here is my real question. Do I fire him and do this on my own? We haev the plans now, and while we may have to take them to someone to certify them, I can live with that. I have friends that have been GC in the past (they are all in construction for their living) and while they dont' want to do it now, they would help if I needed it along the way (they said this) I stay home so am able to go to the job site daily and can be at locations in the middle of the day with little warning. However, I do have one child at home.

I have asked for specifics, like the Toto Aquia III toilet and CREE L6 lights, gothic windows in some spots, etc... He has either eliminated these from the plans or his cost to upgrade to those is more than I can buy them from at the local store. The upgrade shouldn't cost MORE because I'm already paying the original item's fee, so it should only be the difference, right?

I was a teacher and my husband is an engineer, so we are pretty detail oriented people but have never undertaken such a project and I am not sure if the bank would go for it and if it really makes sense and would save us money or not.

Do I just need to stick to my guns, be patient, and ride this out? The builder isn't happy that I have delayed the project. They wanted it to already be dug but I didn't feel we were ready for that so we told him that we weren't going to dig before Spring now. He said prices may go way up by Spring, but we told him that was a risk we were willing to take and stood firm.

Thanks for all advice (and its ok to tell me I'm dreaming if I think doing it on our own would work out ok)

Comments (8)

  • 16 years ago

    If a builder/designer told me that my design phase with him included 'unlimited changes'...

    I would be inclined to think that the builder was:

    1) Naive
    2) Had Little experience with Building, Designs or Changes
    3) Was nuts

    ...and would think seriously about finding another designer and builder...and walk or run away...
    ---
    On the other hand, if I offered my customers' (as a builder/designer) a standard package that included 'unlimited changes'...never had problems before....then encountered YOU as a client...

    I'd have 2nd, 3rd, and 27th thoughts about entereing into a contract to build with YOU because your actions and reactions would make me think YOU were nuts and a bad risk.

    ---------

    That said, it appears you BOTH need to walk (or run) away from each other at this point.

    Pay the builder/designer for his license to use and modify his design, say thank you, and find some other builder and designer whom you would feel more comfortable.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Feel free to disagree.

  • 16 years ago

    Deja Vu. Our subdivision developer was going to be our GC on cost plus, we gave them our plans (which we'd already modified with the original architect firm) and 5 page spec sheet (hardwood floors, insulation, roofing, windows, I spec'd out everything except cabinets and fixtures), so they started getting bids.

    After 4 trys, they never got a window quote for our plan and specs right, and I was beginning to have second thoughts about their ability to build our house, when they cut us loose and told us to be our own GC. So we did. In my experience, Custom Home builders are rare, very rare. If they have a standard set of specs, then they're just a Home builder, just not a Tract Home builder, but not Custom.

    Either keep looking for a builder whose specs align more with your specs, or look into being your own builder. If you're having to push and have the builder do things over and over again when it's just on paper, what's it going to be like when it's wood, nails and concrete?

  • 16 years ago

    "The part we have paid for states "unlimited" changes to the plans."

    All that means is he will allow changes, it says nothing about the cost of the changes.

    You can select a 24 karat gold commode.

    Be prepared to pay for it.

    The cost of some changes will be more than just the cost difference in the material.

    If he planned on buying all the plumbing supplies from a single house it might be a single pickup/delivery.

    If the change requires a different source you have added another pickup/delivery.
    While a large order often gets free delivery, smaller orders are routinely charged.

    He has followed the letter of the contract ... he allowed the change.

    Now you have to deal with the cost of the change, something it appears is not covered in your initial contract.

  • 16 years ago

    What type of building contract are you looking at? Cost plus or fixed price?

  • 16 years ago

    Manhatten, Can you please clarify why you would run from me? I am not trying to be a difficult client so if there is some different way I should be going about this, I would like to hear it.

    bdeck, I get it, you reminded me of some of our issues. On the spec sheet the builder specified a 4 inch deep 20x20 slab outside of the garage, only our garage is 32 feet wide. When I asked about it I was told that they just needed to redo a few things then. There were multiple issues like that. It took 5 requests to get a drain in the garage added.

    brickeyee, the unlimited changes were to be free from charge. The design phase is $2000 and included designing our house with unlimited changes. I asked clearly that no matter how many times I come and change it. They agreed, that was all in the price. They were clear that the changes may affect the price of the build, for example changing for bigger square footage, more expensive finishes, etc... but all changes made before we move to the next step (and contract) were included in that $2000.

    I am fully aware that several of our changes will increase the cost of the build, which is not the problem. My concern is that even though he repeatedly (and in the contract for this phase) said that there were no charges for changes made to the plans at this phase, he then changed and said there would be charges for more. If he's willing to do that, then what else are they going to try to change later?

    pps, it is a fixed price contract.

  • 16 years ago

    "The part we have paid for states "unlimited" changes to the plans. We made some major changes several times. After the last round he said they'd have to start to charge us if we changed more."

    Sorry, but that's a recipe for disaster. Every change you make costs him time and money if he reviews it, and leaves him open to disaster if he doesn't. And the cumulative effect of numerous lightly-reviewed changes can be catastrophic. Plus, constant changes make you look indecisive and unprepared, and make him suspect you'll be a nightmare to work with.

    ----------------

    I wrote the above after reading only part way through your post. I design software for a living, which is similar in many respects. (Hubby's a builder - we compare.) Manhatten is saying exactly what I tried to say above. There's just NO WAY that type of arrangement can work unless you already know *exactly* what you want and make very few changes. (At which point, what good was it?)

    Your clarification to Brickeye makes it clear that this builder is either naive, desparate or stupid...

  • 16 years ago

    Run away! We are in the middle of a build. I went with hubby's choice of builders and should have stuck to my guns. It is now 2 years, the costs keep increasing, and the builder says he cannot meet the bank's deadline (that deadline is 26 months after we started excavation).

    You really must have a builder with whom you BOTH are comfortable and confident! Also, get really specific on the details, and insist on fixed price.

    Best of luck!

  • 16 years ago

    We have been discussing it and are looking at switching to a construction manager. Is there any websites or resources you can recommend on this? I have found some owner/builder sites, but few that talk about construction managers. I'm looking for some to see what specific tasks the manager would do, what is expected out of each of us, where can I find contracts to have a starting point (though we have an attorney we'd take them to)

    I'm not sure that is what way we'll go, but would like to be able to read more about it. I have tried searching the THS site too, searching project manager and construction manager but didn't find a whole lot, so if you can give me some good search terms it would help!

    Thanks