I the last 30 years, I can count on one hand the number of residential projects I've done where cove base was used. Usually that's strictly a commercial trim piece.

Bill,

I am going to have my laundry room tiled early next year and I figured that I would use cove because I want the walls tiled about 3/4 way up as well. Isn't that the correct way to do it when you do both the walls and the floor?

Bill,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know it was so rare to use cove. I guess it's a preference thing. I do think it's much easier to maintain (hence its commercial use) and I like the smooth transition from floor to wall. As you know, it is an added cost though.

I did it in my current bathroom and they installed it the right way with the cove going in first and the floor tile butting into it. (It still gets used around here but is often installed on top of the floor). I love not having a sharp corner and I would do it again.

The back of my kitchen counter is coved and it is one of the smartest things I did. It is so nice not having that corner to clean!

Start a trend. :-)

Cove works acceptably in commercial use since the buildings are often moreo solidly buiilt than residential (think concrete slabs and maonry walls).

Coves on inside corners in residential suffer from the same problem as trying to grout the change in plane.

Any movement in the substrate opens the joint up.

The cove cove piece will open at one joint or the other (floor or wall), since they cannot 'give' wioth any movement.

The crack location is simply moved to one edge of the cove.

So, what is the recommended way to merge wall and floor tile, especially in a laundry room? Grout? Caulk? I really wanted cove. I am concerned with the vibration of the washer and dryer.

susanelewis:

I think cove will be perfect for your laundry room. As far as a tile joint cracking (as suggested by brickeyee) if there are settling issues severe enough to crack tile joints then it wouldn't matter which type of tile is used as field tile joints are not any stronger than cove tile joints.

Cove is used commercially not because the buildings are sturdier, it's used because it's code. It's code because it's much easier to clean and less likely to trap dirt etc., I think the floor-to-wall transition that cove tile provides is more appealing. Obviously, it's matter of taste and practicability. I personally would never do a shower floor without cove, it's much easier to maintain and that's probably why it's often referred to as sanitary cove.

Deb, are you talking about where cove is installed first or the alternate method of applying the cove on top of the wall and floor tile? I do not like the idea of applying tile on tile.

There isn't a single crack between the cove and floor in any of the bathrooms in the house I grew up in. (1969) That said its construction was very good. The cracking did occur where the walltile was grouted at the tubline and this since has been replaced with caulk.

So, what is the recommended way to merge wall and floor tile, especially in a laundry room? Grout? Caulk? I really wanted cove. I am concerned with the vibration of the washer and dryer.

Although I agree with palimpsest-- for some reason, the joint between the cove and floor tile doesn't usually crack, I'd still caulk it just to be safe.

My husband insisted on having cove on areas of plane difference. The problem: any tile offering a cove piece was a)ugly, b)boring, c)poor quality & d) all of the above. Of course, all these are personal preferences. Although he would have preferred we get cove pieces, we opted for a more visually appealing style and made it work with the layout. He's going to caulk the heck out of it with clear silicone (and in the shower corners, he got a caulk that matches the grout color). I thought the cleanliness would be an issue too, but no. The counterman at our tile place mentioned that alot of companies have streamlined their product offerings during this economy. We did wait a month for some of our order.

So, Bill, to be clear, you do recommend cove in our laundry room install, just make sure the installer caulks the joint (not grout) between the cove and the floor? And, regarding the method of install, are you recommending the method of installing the cove first and then butting the wall and floor tile up to it instead of the alternate method of installing the cove over the wall/floor tile?

Susan, I've seen a few instances of cove base being set on top of floor tile and in those instances one of two things has taken place a) the tile installer used the wrong application because he/she did not know any better b) the installer did not want to take the time to cut the floor tile to the cove as, it's easier to cut it to the wall and then hide the floor's cut edge with the cove like hiding a wood floor's cut edges under quarter round. Either way, it's wrong.

Cienza, yes, cove is sometimes hard to find. Especially if you're purchasing from a big box store where most often they'll only carry white. Manufacturers and builders nowadays offer consumers the newest in trends, however, the cost for manufactures to make "trick" pieces for all these choices is cost prohibitive so, it's then the consumers decision on using the proper application (as in a shower wet area like a floor not so much the walls).

Shower floor tile is a bit restrictive because in order to maintain the proper drainage slope you must use the correct ratio of tile size to floor slope. On a large floor surface you can use small or larger floor tile, on a small or average shower floor you must use a smaller tile hence, the duel purpose of dot mounted or web-mounted 1x1 or 1x2 ft. sheets that give the installer the needed flexibility to transition the slope and the ease of installing a multiple of tiles at once. Manufacturers of dot and web-mounted tile, in most instances, have matching cove base.

Apparently, a lot of shower floors are done without cove, nonetheless the fact is that the dreaded cleaning of the shower floor to keep mold and mildew at bay is much easier with cove base. The 90 degree wall-to-floor transition that cove base eliminates makes for a much easier surface to clean. Showers stay wet and unless you're on your hands and knees with a tiny scrub brush mold and mildew is getting trapped in that 90 degree transition. You can use excessive caulk to fill-in the void, however, you're essentially trying to do with caulk what cove was designed for and you don't have to dig out the cove and replace it every few years.

We special ordered tile and for the floor we're using a 2x2 porcelain and matching a matte cove to these pieces not to the wall tile. Using a proper application for the floor did not detract from our ability to design our shower wall any way we wanted, as in our case, we're using a matte ceramic field along with glass tiles offset with a decorative liner. We chose 5/16 thickness for the glass to avoid having to build-up the base behind it and, at $38 a square foot, it's not cheap.

I'd suggest if you're building a new shower to consider using cove base. Again, it's easier to clean and maintain and, although it may not be available in all tile lines you can still design your shower walls any way you like and use a coordinating cove base and floor even from a different tile line. In my opinion cove base is well worth the added cost in its durability and cleanliness.

Bottom line is cove was expertly designed and has been around forever and will continue to be around. Why, because it was specifically designed for the purposes explained in the above post. Why don't more installers recommend and/or use cove base? It's more labor intensive and most of all they don't have to clean it.

FAIR WARNING - In the years to come, for all of those who choose not to use cove base in a shower floor "happy extra scrubbing, caulk removal and replacement".

Susan, I've seen a few instances of cove base being set on top of floor tile and in those instances one of two things has taken place a) the tile installer used the wrong application because he/she did not know any better b) the installer did not want to take the time to cut the floor tile to the cove as, it's easier to cut it to the wall and then hide the floor's cut edge with the cove like hiding a wood floor's cut edges under quarter round. Either way, it's wrong.

No, it's NOT wrong. You ought to check your facts before you make a statement like that. There are two different series of base- A3401, and AT3401. The A series is the one that you're talking about (and also getting harder and harder to find). The edge of the cove is raw clay, just like the other three sides. It MUST abutt the floor tile. The AT, however, is glazed on that edge, and made SPECIFICALLY to either abutt, OR set on top of the floor tile, and there are actually benefits to setting it on top-- that being that you can leave that joint between the floor tile and the wall open, thereby allowing more for seasonal expansion and contraction of the structure (speaking about useage OUTSIDE showers. IN a shower, it doesn't matter one way or the other, because the pan membrane is all self contained, and not connected to the structure except at the drain, so either way-- abutted or on top, it should work fine)

On a large floor surface you can use small or larger floor tile, on a small or average shower floor you must use a smaller tile

Wrong again. The rate of slope will be the same for both floors-- 1/4" per linear foot. So if you have a 10'x10' shower, or a 3'x3' shower, the 3' around the drain will be exactly the same.

Apparently, a lot of shower floors are done without cove, nonetheless the fact is that the dreaded cleaning of the shower floor to keep mold and mildew at bay is much easier with cove base.

The hell it is. Especially with the additives being put into the newest generation of grouts from just about all manufacturers these days, mold problems will soon be a thing of the past..... SO LONG as your shower's properly built. If not, you got bigger problems than the use of cove (or lack thereof).

Why don't more installers recommend and/or use cove base? It's more labor intensive

I don't know where you're getting this crap, but you're wrong again. I don't care whether I use cove or not. It's no more work, one way or the other. The biggest reason it's not used when the subject comes up is it's an unnecessary expense on a project that's usually already alot more expensive than the homeowner figured.

I don't know who you are, or what your back ground is, but you need to do a little more research before you come in here and make broad statements like this off the cuff. If you want to make accurate recommendations or statements, that's one thing. But this is so much hogwash, it's not funny. Especially your fair warning. If that's the case, as I said earlier, you've got alot more to worry about than whether or not you used cove.

Thanks, Bill, for clarifying this. It appears either way is acceptable as long as it's done correctly and with the right materials. When you are consulted on installing cove in a room where there is wall and floor tile, which method do you suggest going with (budget not being an issue)? Should I go with the integrated cove or because of vibration, choose to set it on top?

Excuse me, I see I've hit a raw nerve. My husband is a certified tile mechanic with over 25 years of experience and this is where I get my info. You're not the only tile expert in the world and the way you do your work is not the only way.

Granted. But to sit there and say that the wam most mechanics install base is wrong-- sorry-- I don't care how good he is or how long he's been on the job. That's not right.

you feel like anyone that says cove is proper is wrong because otherwise all your jobs for 30 years would be in question.

That's not what I meant at all. I have no problem using cove if someone wants to. What I have a problem with is someone who comes in here saying that if you don't use cove you've got a substandard shower. That's just out and out wrong. Not just the statement, but the fact that you had the gaul to say it. It tells me that your husband is the one with the knowledge-- not you.

Given a choice, the experts will use cove. It was invented for and made for this use and there's no denying it no matter how mad this makes you.

The only thing that makes me mad is that you seem to think that you assume your husband's knowledge through marriage. You have alot to learn. As for the "experts", some will, some won't. To most it makes no difference one way or the other.

Why you're so rude and defensive speaks to an obvious insecurity and an ego that's attached to your exalted advice.

No, what it speaks to is the arrogance and ignorance you show by coming in here and spouting off about a subject that in spite of how knowledgeable your husband may or may not be, you have no idea of that which you speak.

Sorry. You're the one who exposed the fact that you don't use or even recommend cove and now that I have explained it's superior functionality you want to belittle and berate me and my post. Get a life.

You're right-- I've exposed my fatal flaw.

What a maroon.

Oh-- one other thing-- there's no such thing as a certified tile mechanic. He might be a journeyman mechanic, but there is no governing organization-- not TCNA, not CTIOA, and not NTCA-- that recognizes any kind of certification in this country.

Bill,

As you well now, the certification I spoke of is certification of ANSI applications of various mortars, grouts, waterproofing systems and the proper installation of tile etc., per ANSI specifications. They're obtained through factory reps who put on seminars. My husband is a journeyman.

You mean where he goes to the local Dal warehouse or other showroom and gets a free supper while they sell whatever new product it is that they're pushing?

Or are you talking about going down to South Carolina to Schluter's (and CTEF's) compound and learning how to use their products?

Bill, I realize this has become a touchy subject but could you look back at my question and give me some insight?

Bill,

One more thing, don't you know you're a smart***? If you'll look at my posts you'll see I said it was in my opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinions. I never said not using cove was sub-standard I said it was better as far as cleaning. I feel this way and I offered up my arguments as to why. I'm not a tile journeyman and I never claimed to be. It's unnecessary and ugly to attack people. I wondered why people are choosing not to use cove. You replied that it was rare (and it's not) you then said it was cost. Okay. Fair enough.

Perhaps you'd be better suited to getting your own web-site as this one does not belong to you. After all, with your own site you can be a jerk all you want, however, on a public forum you should at least mind your manners. I won't be responding further.

Maybe you could at least answer Susan's question which she asked you several times. I guess you overlooked it because you were so focused on me. Susan's question was with cost not being a factor is it better to use cove that abutts to the floor tile or cove tile on top. What do you say Bill? And, I see you know about free suppers.

Item by item:

I've noticed in most newer shower floors the absence of cove tiles, why is this? Is it the added cost of these "trick" pieces?

The biggest reason, as I've said already, is cost of these "TRIM" pieces. They make for a nice finish, but so does a square corner, and although the cove DOES make cleaning a little easier, it's not by much at all, and for the added unnecessary cost, it's just not worth it to most people. The people who DO use cove are usually after a "period" look, such as using a pastel color with black trim, or using a cove with subway tiles and a hex floor-- that kind of thing. Very few people (although I won't say none) see it as a functional piece of wall-to-floor covering.

I always thought cove provided a more sanitary transition from floor to wall, the slight slope helps to keep water from pooling in corners and edges.

It IS slightly more sanitary, but not to the point where it becomes necessary, or even preferrable, when you consider the added cost just to buy the pieces. As for kepping water from pooling, if that's a problem, cove or no cove, you need to take it up with your installer because the shower pan hasn't been installed properly, and even if you DO have cove, you've still got a bigtime problem.

Could it be a matter of taste with the preference for a more box-like look or is it the cost?

Either/or.

I prefer cove and I'm using it in my new shower floor, am I missing something here?

No, you're not. That's your preference, and there's nothing wrong with that, just as there'd be nothing wrong if you opted NOT to use cove.

One more thing, don't you know you're a smart***?

I'm almost 53 years old. I've been like this all my life. YOU do the math.

If you'll look at my posts you'll see I said it was in my opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

You're absolutely right. It's your opinion that I've been shortchanging my customers for 30 years, and mine is that you have no idea of what you're talking about. WE are entitled to our opinions.

I never said not using cove was sub-standard I said it was better as far as cleaning.

Bottom line is cove was expertly designed and has been around forever and will continue to be around. Why, because it was specifically designed for the purposes explained in the above post. Why don't more installers recommend and/or use cove base? It's more labor intensive and most of all they don't have to clean it.

You stated unequivocally that the only reason not to use base is that the installer's too damn lazy. Yes. I take that as an attack on the quality of my work. And you're right-- it's unnecessary and ugly to attack people. But when I'm attacked, especially when I know for sure I'm right, I don't back down.

Perhaps you'd be better suited to getting your own web-site as this one does not belong to you. After all, with your own site you can be a jerk all you want, however, on a public forum you should at least mind your manners. I won't be responding further.

Actually, I DO have my own site. I'm here strictly to help people steer clear of those who don't know what they're doing...... As for being a jerk all I want, that's only with you.

When it Rome....

And yes, I DO know about free suppers. I've gotten enough of em. I also know about going to real seminars, too, not just sales demonstrations at the local showroom or warehouse.

Susan, in your laundry room, I'd probably go without the cove, and caulk the joint between the walls and floor, just to be safe.

Re all cove tile offerings being boring ugly or low quality: lol.

You just weren't looking at the right stuff.

I don't understand why cove is possibly more sanitary -- doesn't it introduce an extra grout line?

It moves the joint out of the corner and gives the corner a rounded edge, easier to clean. Some places like ORs have large radius coved floors: no corner for things to get trapped in.

Susan, in your laundry room, I'd probably go with cove. I'd have it installed abutted up to the wall and floor tile.

peteinsonj, cove would take the place of field tile where the floor meets the wall so, no it does not create any extra grout joints. And, as palimpsest said, it eliminates the 90 degree floor-to-wall transition allowing for an easier surface to clean.

Schools, hospitals, cafeterias, restaurants, even doctor's offices use cove tile and, you'll even find cove baseboard (for commercial carpet installations). Cove is also used in many residential shower floors (including mine) as well as counters.

Again, I'd suggest anyone doing a new shower to take a look at cove and consider it's wonderful benefits. Generally, it does cost a little more (than field tile) in my opinion, worth every penny :) it's not too hard to find cove that will coordinate nicely with the rest of your design. For instance, I know daltile makes a lot of choices in cove.

it's not too hard to find cove that will coordinate nicely with the rest of your design.

But for anyone reading this thread, it should be noted that many, many tiles do not have cove pieces available. So I think it's more a design issue that you'd want to decide before you shop for tile; if you shop for tile, find one you like, and then ask "does this line have cove?", the odds are you'll be frustrated.

We just re-did two bathrooms, and in the process looked at hundreds and hundreds of tiles at a number of showrooms. Of those, only a small fraction had cove pieces available. It may be that certain manufacturers, like Daltile, offer cove on many of their lines, and I'm not trying to suggest that cove is hard to find if you decide you want it -- I'm only saying that it greatly limits your choices in the tile universe.

-- Eric

It has been nearly 6 years....

How is the debate on to Cove or Not to Cove?

I am just now remodeling my bath and installing a tile shower and floor. as I love Old houses and this one is nearly 100 years old - I am chosing little hexagon black and white for the floor and a subway tile style shower with some bling of course.

Should I cove?

My Tile store and Tile installer are really strongly urging me not to use cove tile on the bottom run of wall tile to floor. They say it will make the room look like a commercial space and it is not in fashion.

I am trying to make the floor look as though it was done around the time of construction and all the photos I find of vintage tile bathrooms are using cove. So confusing.

Cove it--especially for a house built in the "sanitary" era. :P

How beautiful!

Has anyone recently used Schluter Cove-Shaped Profiles for the wall tile and floor tile transition in their residential showers?

I restored an old home 10 years ago including new tile in 4 bathrooms. I live near a bay in a moist climate. I recommend with 100% confidence to use cove in bathrooms and all wet damp areas. Everywhere my tile installer used caulking in 90 degree transitions (neglected to use cove) is a massive pain to keep clean and free of mold. I curse it all the time. Everywhere I have cove is easy to keep clean. I learned the hard way. There is a very excellent reason that cove exists. Good luck! Cheers!