Mongoct, or other plumbing geniuses....

12 years ago

I have a hall bath (currently demo'ed to studs) with a tub(Kohler expanse)/shower combo. Its the kids bath- I have 3 boys. My sink faucets are delta so I figured I do delta for the shower and have located the related universal valve.

1. My initial idea was to mount a fixed shower head at about 7.2 feet from the ground and then a bar with a handheld directly below it. My rational was:
- While my youngest son is still a toddler, my oldest is 10 and projected to be about 7 feet tall when fully grown. I figured I'd mount the fixed very high so when he is grown he won't have to duck (as much)- I only have 8 foot ceilings so there is a limit on how high I could go.
-I am not sure what the experience would be for my younger kids with a shower head that high at this age so I thought I would install a slider with a handheld that I can lower for the little ones to shower and also use to chase and rinse the littlest one who often showers with the middle one. So ideally they could run at the same time.

I was thinking of using a delta universal valve, with a tub/shower trim set from Delta and an A/B/ab diverter with a separate control for the handheld. Possibly split the input pipes into hot/hot and cold/cold like I read on another of your posts.

My plumber does not like my plan. He feels it is way too much going on and it will be crowded and further would require a (dreaded) "change order".

It is possible I am overdoing it - I can lose perspective in the middle of a reno- but whatever I do now I will have to live with as Im not ripping the walls out later. I had considered a handheld only but I also have memories of the gimpy latches and sagging heads of yesteryear. We currently have a delta intuition in and its ok for a cheap solution but I get soaking wet taking the handheld out of the center to rinse the kids hair or whatever - so for dry "shower helpers", its not the best.

Finally, in terms of the tub/shower trim, I am debating between Delta's thermostatic cartage and its dual function pressure balance cartridge (both use the universal valve)- the trim that matches my faucet is the PB one (but still has separate volume control), but I'm not fanatical about this matching style as long as the finish matches. But I don't see a lot of difference. Its about 100 dollars difference in the trim price (do these trims contain cartridges usually?)

Can you tell me what you think of this setup in an alcove bath/shower combo and what the proper elements would be if it is ok? Objectively is this a couple more hours for a plumber or a whole other ball game?

THANK YOU!!!

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Comments (4)

MongoCT
12 years ago
I only have one handheld in my house, it's a Grohe Relaxa Top4 shower head:

I'm not trying to sell you on this particular head, but I'll tell you why I bought it; as an option, I could buy a 40" long slide bar instead of the more typical 24" bar.

I have my bar from 46" to 86" which puts the head between 53" and 90" above the tile. My shower has an 8' ceiling.

If you can find a longer bar in the Delta line, you could consider a similar set-up.

Here's what I recommend: I agree with your plumber. I think two valves or a valve/diverter feeding two heads on the short wall of a tub surround shower is overkill.

I'd install a shower on a vertical slide bar. Again, I only have experience with the Grohe Relaxa set-up, but it's been in for maybe 15 years and the head still easily slides up and down, the bracket that holds the head is rotatable...but it never droops. There are no leaks or errant sprays of water that leak out of any of the fittings.

For your potential seven footer? If he does indeed grow and you want the shower head at a higher height than you can get with a typical slide bar, spend $20 or $50 or whatever they cost, and buy a shower head wall bracket:

You can install that bracket as high up on the wall as you chose, and when your tall son takes a shower he can take the shower head out of the sliding bracket and install it on that high bracket.

When you build the shower, install a horizontal piece of 2-by-6 backer between two studs at the height you think you'd like the bracket to be. When you go to install the bracket, drill on a grout line and you can secure the bracket onto the 2-by-6.

I'm not trying to talk you out of what you want to do. If you really want to do it, fine.

Not that I typically hand out parental advice...but don't make the shower too comfortable of a place for your teenage kids. You want them in and out instead of taking 30-minute showers. lol

Regarding trim versus valve and cartridges? The valve body is the rough-in brass body that will contain what goes behind the wall. The cartridge is included with the valve. The valve trim is usually just the bright shiny chrome part that people ooh and ahh over.

In this day of specialized valves and trim kits, do make sure you match up the valve with the trim so they are compatible.

FWIW, I have thermostatic and pressure-balanced valves in my house. I notice no difference at all in water pressure or temperature control between them.

Good luck!
adh673
Original Author
12 years ago
Mongoct, you are amazing. I sooo appreciate your insight. I am going to re-read this a few more times but before you run, quick question- do handhelds require certain valve types? While I see it in the specs on fixed heads, none of the handhelds mention valves.
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MongoCT
12 years ago
No. Think of a handheld just like a regular shower head; both can be bought independently form the supply valve.

You can thread pretty much any generic shower head on most any generic shower arm. They have universal 1/2" threaded fittings.

Instead of a shower arm, the handheld units have a wall outlet or wall union that typically has a 1/2" threaded fitting. In a typical installation, the shower arm gets the water out of the wall. With a handheld, it's the wall outlet that gets the water out of the wall.

The hose then threads on to the wall outlet. Here's a wall outlet:

To be on the safe side, the handheld, the hose, and the slide bar should be from the same manufacturer. You can sometimes mix and match, but some handhelds have proprietary brackets for how the handheld hangs on the slide bar, as well as proprietary connections for how the handheld connects to the hose.

Most any wall outlet will connect to most any hose, as they have universal 1/2" threaded fittings.
loves2read
11 years ago
Reopening an older thread--
doing master bath remodel in house that has been replumbed with PEX--not sure what brand...
Does it matter what type of valves or mfg of plumbing fixtures we want to put in...
we will be removing the old shower and tub in one area to make large walk-in shower--
want a wall mounted shower head -- no rain or body sprays--and a hand-held on a bar...note what you say about getting a longer slider bar...

reason I asked is that am looking at California faucets and it sounded like the water source had to be certain circumfrence to work with the shower valve...