chuckbl

Carrier provides excellent equipment.

I will offer some general comments. For your location climate, there is nothing wrong with an 80% eff furnace as long as it is paired with a heat pump. If you elect a straight AC condenser, then go with 95%+ eff furnace. With the Infinity furnaces, you want the Infinity interface/controller regardless whether 80 or 95% eff. Unless I missed it, I see nothing about a whole house air filter cabinet. I certainly recommend one-my pick is a 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet. You do want a tin plated coil as designated by the ATA suffix on coil mdl number.

What size furnace and condenser are you replacing? I always recommend that linesets be replaced as long as they are accessible.

I would want to see the load calcs for both heating and cooling-mainly cooling. I question whether three ton is enough. I don't want to be borderline for cooling in NVa.

you may be challenged on your options for qualifying for the tax credit on an 80% eff furnace paired with heat pump. since Company #2 quoted 4 ton condensers,what did he say about the tax credit specifically option #3?

IMO
Good Luck!

tigerdunes:

As always, you have been very helpful. I agree that 3 tons seems too small for the house. The existing AC is 3.5 tons. Both companies' bids offered media cabinets as an option. Company 2 offered an Aprilaire 2210 Media Air Filter for $545. Company 1 offered a "Carrier media filter assembly" for $526. We certainly plan on getting a media cabinet.

Company two did NOT expressly state that the heat pump bids qualified for the federal tax credit. Great catch. They also failed to include the coil model numbers for the heat pumps, so we have some follow-up questions to ask. Am I right that the absence of an "ATA" in their bids also means no tin coils? I will follow-up.

Again, thanks for your help. I have been studing your posts in preparation for this process and they have been a great help?

chuckbl

Rewgardless of dealer selected(and it should be an authorized dealer),I would insist on a load calc, get it in writing, and review it carefully. If you have any hot/cold spots in your home, now is the time to address those issues with dealer. And make certain dealer performs a thorough inspection of ductwork system.

those three ton condensers bother me.you will note company two quoted larger furnaces as well.

IMO
Good Luck!

I will clearly insist on a full load calc before moving forward. All of the contractors are factory authorized.

I found the following AHRI certified system that looks like what I was quoted as option 3 by the second manufacturer. It qualifies for the tax credit and seems to have good number:

ARI 3495933
HP: 25HPA648A30
Coil: CNPV6124
Furnace: 58 CV(A,X)110-20

EER: 12.60
SEER: 17
HSPH: 9.75

Any thoughts on this sytem for my region?

One other question--many of the model numbers quoted have numbers that vary slightly from what I could find on the ARHI website. For example, I was quoted 25HPA648A003. I could only find 25HPA648A30. What do the numbers after the "A" mean. Do they have any import for purposed of AHRI certification?

Thanks again!

chuckbl

a nice system. I doubt you would rarely use the gas furnace except for very cold days. Definitely not the high stg unless we go in deep freeze.

since you would be going up in size with the HP condenser, ductwork should be examined very closely for any necessary modifications.

don't fret over those mdl numbers. they are the same.

IMO
Good Luck!

This is very similar to the other question. I'm hoping an expert can help me out too.
We are in upstate SC. One thing that worries me. I've gotten several quotes. No company mentioned any kind of load calc and only one measured. I think this must be common practice in our area. Not sure what to do about it.

We are replacing our 20 yr. old upstairs system. The upstairs is about 1600 sq. ft. with cathedral ceilings in the two large rooms.

I have gotten two quotes
Quote #1
Carrier 25HNA936 Infinity 19 Heatpump
Carrier chphp3617ATA Indoor coil
58CVA090-16 Gas Furnace
Infinity Controller

Quote #2
25HNA636A003 NOMINAL THREE TON 16 SEER HEAT PUMP
58CVA070-1-14 VARIABLE SPEED FURNACE WITH TWO STAGE HEAT
CNPHP3617ATA THREE TON COOLING COIL
SYSTXCCUD01 INFINITY CONTROLLER

The first quote is significantly higher than the second. I'm not sure what the main difference between the quotes is or which is best and most cost-efficient in the long run. Quoter #2 said that our energy savings wouldn't be enough to justify the cost of the Infinity 19 over the 16.

These represent second quotes. The first were as follows:
#1
25HPA636
58CVA-070-1-12

#2
25HNA636A003 NOMINAL THREE TON 16 SEER
58CVA070-1-14 VARIABLE SPEED FURNACE WITH TWO STAGE HEAT
CNPHP3617ATA THREE TON COOLING COIL
SYSTXCCUD01 INFINITY CONTROLLER

The quotes were changed when I requested the Infinity heat pump, as opposed to the Performance. I based this on some reading.

I know this is a very specific question. I'm trying to understand as best I can and not be taken advantage of by contractors. It's a HUGE investment and I want to get it right.

Thanks for any advice.

gaelcat

start your own thread.

I live in foothills of SC and will be glad to comment.

TD

TD (and others)

I have been trying to analyze whether it makes economic sense to have a 95% furnace if we use the heat pump configuration described above. The extrra cost for an Infinity 95% furnace would be $1850, and it doesn't look to me that the cost savings in reduced gas costs would justify the expense.

Am I offbase?

chuckbl

if you lived in a colder climate, you might could justify it. I would stay with DF-a correctly sized HP paired with backup 80% VS furnace. I suspect your payback on a 95% eff furnace in a DF application is more than 10 yrs.

IMO

As a point of reference, in mid nc I spent $200 total for gas this winter on a 4000 sq ft house in a dual fuel situation. I suspect the averAge would be more like $120. This is with the downstairs only as ng and 90% furnace.

So average for 80% might be $140 and 95% might be $110. So $30 a year might be the difference. So 60 year payback

We received some more bids, including one from a Bryant dealer. Our two best options seesm to be:

From Carrier dealer:
ARI 3495933
HP: 25HPA648A30
Coil: CNPV6124
Furnace: 58 CVA 110-20
Infinity Control
5 year labor/10 year parts warranty

Cost Before Rebate: $8830
Rebates: $1100

Net: $7630 before tax credit

From Bryant dealer:

285BNA042 (Evolution 15 seer Heat Pump)
CNPVP4821 (Indoor Coil)315AAV060110 (Evolution 80% Gas Furnace
Evolution Control (Allows you to control your Humidifier and give outdoor temperature)
Slab, Other installation materials

Total: $8387.61
Discounts Available:
Bryant Instant Rebate: $700.00
Company Full System Coupon: $400.00
Total after discounts: $7287.61

Given that Bryant sells in half ton units and Carrier only in full ton units, the sizing is pretty comparable and both have agreed to do a load analysis before finalizing our deal. Any thoughts about these two options?

I've never heard of the 285BNA from Bryant. I'd double check that. There's a 266ANA and a 265ANA, and also a 286ANA, but no 285BNA as I can tell.

That makes a difference, because the Bryant dealer is selling you a single stage heat pump and the Infinity has 2 stages (25HNA6).

Ryan:

I found a 285BNA on the AHRI site, but not on the Bryant site. Like you, I have otherwise not been able to find out much more about this mdl #. The Bryant quote seems to be ARI#3708022, which has less impressive numbers than the Carrier quote:

EER: 12.50
SEER: 15
HSPF: 8.5

The Carrier proposal had:

EER: 12.60
SEER: 17
HSPH: 9.75

Unless I am missing something, I think the Carrier proposal is much better. Is there another configuration that I should ask Bryant about?

Thanks to all who helped me with this project--especially tigerdunes and ryanhughes. I learned a great deal lurking on the site even before putting on my own posts. I deeply appeciate the help offered here!

In the end, I went with the following Carrier proposal, subject to a heat load calculation/duct work inspection taking place next week:

ARI 3495933
HP: 25HPA648A30
Coil: CNPV6124
Furnace: 58 CVA 110-20
Infinity Control
10 year labor/10 year parts warranty
Aprilaire 2210 media air filter

Cost Before Rebate: $9665
Rebate fom Carrier: $1100

After a newly announced 20% Virginia rebate (around $1500) and the federal tax credit, the net cost is about $5565.

The Carrier system is a good one and with the incentives you can take advantage of, I think you're getting it at a very reasonable price. Great to have a 10 year parts/labor warranty should something go wrong.

Chuckbl,
I just read this thread and found it extremely helpful, as I am a neighbor (in NWDC), have a similar size home (a bit smaller), and am in the midst of researching similar quotes.
I'd love to contact you for a lead on who you ended up going with in our area, particularly for the warranty. Is there a way we can be in touch?

Chuckbl,

As dcjoshy is, I am currently looking at the same system you purchased and would be interested in what company you went with. I am in Northern Virginia and have three quotes but none similar to what you ended up with (ignoring rebates and tax incentives).

Thanks,
Craig