Before anyone starts evaluating, I need to ask, If you've just started framing, how can your plumbing be in place already?

Congrats on a new home! How exciting! Not a pro here, but at first glance in the kitchen, it seems that the busiest working spaces, clean up and cooking, are bunched together with a major walkthrough going right through them, and all that lovely counterspace in the L will be for what? It's far from cleanup, far from the cooktop.

Where do you plan to store the dishes/flatware, serving pieces, and cookware? Can you label those?

And, not on your list of q's, but where will your dryer vent out?

ML- our home is a slab foundation. Plumbing is not "complete" but is stubbed up through the concrete. We are in a warm area of the country!

Thanks BP! My mom who has her interior design degree asked the same thing about placement of serving pieces etc.
There are tons of drawers on the side with the cooktop so I was thinking that of course pots and pans would go there. And probably utensils.
Big serving pieces for special occasions will be in lower cabinets next to fridge. Daily dishes in upper cab??

I really am ashamed to say I have not been able to take the vision any farther. We spent forever working on the floor plan. I just wonder if there is any way to make it better at this point?

I forgot to mention that I am checking with our builder on the location of the dryer vent!

Just playing around, also noticed that from the dining room there was a lovely view of the cooking and cleanup, maybe not what you'd want. So I just reversed that wall, putting the door on the other side.

This way, main passage isn't through the working zone, bringing in groceries is easier, you can store the everyday dishes on the LR wall (convenient for plating from the stove), the fridge is closer to prep/cooking, and you can put all the baking and serving dishes on the pantry wall, and use it as a serving area for parties.

Is this kind of what you meant for the "secret pantry door"?

Just a jumping off point, others here are so much better at this.

Would you consider U-shape?

Wow! Thank you @bp!! I know my hubby is not into the Ushape, but I like where you are going with the other! I will keep you posted on what he thinks. Thank you so much.

uponthehilltop-what are the dimensions of your space?

Dang! You have a mile of counterspace! It's going to be a beautiful kitchen. And those two fireplaces would be nice to have right now!

@Autumn- I am out and about and cannot get the email with my kitchen dimensions to load right on my phone. Will post dimensions just as soon as I get to my computer!

Thank you for the interest in helping!

Okay, I had to stop by my hubby's office, pulled it up on his computer and snapped a photo because it is a PDF. Hope this helps. Thank you all so much!

Helps if I actually load the pic!

upon-I was hoping if you posted dimensions you'd get more input from the people that know what they are doing. ;) So, I hope it helps!

Sometimes you get many more responses that way if they can see what kind of space they are looking at. I am by no means an expert!

You have A LOT of space there! My layout is very similar except the doorway is on the other side of the fridge and I do not have that whole other wall where your oven/micro is.

I like what pbathhome did in the first one moving that doorway over. It keeps your major sink/stove work space less of a walk through.

Are those aisle widths cabinet to cabinet or edge to edge? Its a 3" difference.

Hey Debra! My understanding is edge to edge...texting builder to verify!

Cabinet to cabinet :(

I think I'd only be concerned about it on the range side though (more traffic there?), not the oven side. You could make your island 4' which would give you 3" right there.

How often do you use your MW?

What about by the refrigerator? Doesn't even a counter depth fridge stick out a little? I would try for at least 42" all around. Its easy to do. Just change the size of the island.

Great input! What do you guys think about the island being longer by adding a couple inches to the length on the breakfast room side?
The only thing is that technically, it would bump out into a walking "zone" but only by a smidge....

Are you planning on stools at the island?

Are you planning the the pantry door to be even with the counter, or tucked back as in the original plan but looking like cabinetry?

I'd be more concerned with the aisle width on the refrigerator side than on the cooktop side - unless you're planning on a French door refrigerator. Debra's is right that even counter-depth fridges, unless they're fully-integrated, do stick out by 2-4". I think you'd have a hard time opening the door on a single-door fridge. If anything, rather than making the island longer (it's plenty long at 81"), I'd just scoot the whole thing down about 4-6" to give you a wider aisle in front of the fridge.

If you flipped the work area to the left, and took the pantry door around the corner, and moved the island up, you'd have this:

@bp - Thank you. I am very interested in the design you posted. I am going with a French door refrigerator. Planning for stools under the island that slide under.
I was hoping to allow the cabinet doors for the pantry to be level with the rest of the cabinets. What do you think?

@Debra - thanks for the input!

@Autumn - I agree the cooktop side is the main concern

@SJHockeyfan - Thanks for those points to consider...head spinning...time to think it over!!

Hilltop, what is a counter depth fridge? Is that smaller than the typical fridge you buy at Sears?

Have you thought about what it would be like to cook a dinner with tings in both the oven and on the cooktop? Happens here plenty. Or to bake -- with the fridge and sink in the wrong places for easily getting butter or eggs or washing the gunk off your hands.

You have a to-die for counter run, but it isn't supporting a lot of function unless you bake a lot -- but if you bake a lot, the rest of this kitchen isn't set up to support that.

I've been mulling over some ideas for your kitchen too. But first I want to ask how you use your kitchen.
Are you the sole cook or are there multiple cooks in your family?
Do you like to cook? Or are you a baker? What are your priorities for your kitchen? Do you entertain a lot?

jdez- A counter depth refrigerator is smaller on cubic space within the fridge and definitely does not hold as much. You lose depth....

lascatx - Is it fixable do you think??

mlweaving- Thanks for thinking on it. I am the only cook in my house, literally. We have one child and my husband is allergic to dishes and cooking, or you would think so, lol. Although he is good with laundry, but I digress...

I cook mostly on the stovetop. Mostly vegetables for us and pastas for our daughter. I might use the oven for one protein item, but many nights I don't even touch the oven.

We love to entertain friends but have never made a habit. We host family for Thanksgiving and Christmas. So, maybe 5 times a year total, that we entertain. We are hoping to change that though in our new home.

Any feedback is appreciated. It's funny, my old kitchen was small and the dishwasher literally could not be loaded if you had to get something out of the oven. SO, I have looked at the open spaces as a blessing. We spent SO much time on the overall floorplan that I am just now beginning to realize I may have missed the boat on function.

I am running out of time. Framers are moving forward and things like changing the location of the pantry door get more expensive daily because they are beginning to frame above and he mentioned today to let him know ASAP if I want anything moved :(.

We are weeks out from electrical, so I feel like flipping the island can be done, and even at this point, changing the cooktop and or microwave/oven combo could be done with ease.

I forgot to mention, the only thing I use my microwave for is to boil water, lol. I had even toyed with the idea of putting it in my pantry!

At this point, I am pleading for insight. Feeling the pressure of only having one chance to make it right, and fearing that it cannot be remedied?!?!?

Of course it's "fixable". ;-)
This is truly a first world "problem".
You just have a lot of room and the goal is to make it function the best it can for your family. If you built it as drawn it would be perfectly adequate, and coming from a really small tight kitchen it would take you a long time to realize you wished you'd changed it.
If you have some time now go look at some of the kitchens in the finished kitchens blog (linked on stickied post at top) for layouts that might be similar to your rough space.
I'm making dinner, and the marina connection where I live is acting up. If I can get on tonight I'll draw up my thoughts. Maybe some others here can too.
I can't do it on my iPhone, which is what I'm on now.

Also, try to envision getting up in the AM and making coffee, making breakfast. Where do you have the coffee maker? Where is your daughter? Where do you keep the cups, bowls? Etc?
And go back through pages here and read some of the threads asking for input on design. You'll get a fair idea of the concepts that are recommended over and over and you'll start to look at your design with an eye toward what mods are right for you.
IMO you have too much spread out over too great an area and not enough aisle space. You've got a lot of unproductive counter space. If you're a big baker lots of counter space is desirable. If you're not maybe you can give up some counter space for better function.

Look through the attached link. I looked through them and I think may will be helpful to your like the work triangle, walking distance, countertop space, etc. 31 sounds long but its really not.

Here is a link that might be useful: 31 design rules

OK, I'm not a kitchen expert. So, I'm posting only what I would do with this space, based upon what I've learned here from reading others who are experts, and my own experiences in remodeling 5 old houses and then building one other. The worst kitchen I ever worked in was ironically the biggest.

So I really like what bpathome did with putting the pantry door around the corner, and it's what I would do, given that I wouldn't want to give up all the counter and cabinet space by leaving it where it is.

I would leave the door to dining room where it is, I'd flip the island around and put all of your working kitchen to the left as you come through the dining room door. The refrig is close enough to the edge that traffic won't want to go through your work space but will instead go outside the island.
I'd use that wall you added to your plan between the great room and the kitchen as a place for a shallow cabinet wall. I'd probably look at the option of lowers and uppers with a shallow counter there that you can use as buffet or staging area for the dining room. The pictures I could find where people have a wall like that chose not to put in a counter. One is the finished kitchen by GW member Beaglesdoitbetter (gorgeous kitchen)

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/new-house-kitchen-phvw-vp~597532)

[Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchen-ideas-phbr0-bp~t_709)
The other is a bit tighter than I envision yours would be, but it gives you the idea

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/products/walnut-wood-kitchen-island-countertop-with-sink-by-grothouse-prvw-vr~911378)

[Traditional Kitchen Countertops[(https://www.houzz.com/products/traditional-kitchen-countertops-prbr1-br~t_439~s_2107) by Germansville Kitchen & Bath Fixtures The Grothouse Lumber Company

If you really didn't want to move the pantry door around the corner then you could give up a section of cabinet and counter. You'd still have as much counter space as many folks have, but you'll lose quite a bit of cabinet.

By doing this you have landing space for your refrig, plenty of adequate space around your range for landing space, minimal steps between areas and you're not looking at cooking mess from the dining room.
The shallow wall of cabinets will give you plenty of storage for your entertaining serveware and other items you don't use daily.
I'd recommend looking into a micro drawer or a set up like was recommended for jdez in the last day or two of building a shelf in the cabinetry to set it on. On the end of the cabinet run would be ideal if you move the pantry door around the corner.

It's an option, maybe not the best but I believe certainly better than what's on your builders drawings right now.

Have you decided on kitchen cab's yet? What did the KD suggest? Have you looked at appliances? Your plan calls for a cooktop and built in oven, but I think you'll find that you get a lot more value for your $ if you buy a range instead of components.
I'd recommend spending a bit of time over on the appliances board researching sinks and appliances before you decide what you want.

Found some more walls with shallow cabinets.

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchen-traditional-kitchen-toronto-phvw-vp~155229)

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107)

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/woodmeister-kitchen-4-traditional-kitchen-boston-phvw-vp~213729)

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Holden General Contractors Woodmeister Master Builders

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-craftsman-kitchen-los-angeles-phvw-vp~2182213)

[Craftsman Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2116) by Venice Architects & Designers kari richardson architect

This post was edited by mlweaving_Marji on Sat, Jan 4, 14 at 23:30

Someone posted pictures recently of their 12"-deep base and upper cabinets and what great storage they have. Things don't disappear in the back! They would work well here, and give a little room to play with the island, or just more room to pass through or hang out on the island. You found some wonderful pictures, mlweaving :)

You know, with the pantry entrance even with the counters, you walk a good 2+ feet in before you get to pantry. Why not put that space, 3 feet long!, to use as counters/cabinets, and have the entry around the corner? Especially if the work area flips to the left, you'll probably store the everyday dishes on that wall, and pots to the left of the stove.

So, here is mlweaving's layout, but with the pantry around the corner, integrated back into your houseplan. What do you think of the flow and the use of the LR wall for storage?

Just for fun, work zones to the right, door on the left, pantry as original:

Thanks bpathome for putting it all into the plan. I don't have a program where I could have done that easily (don't have photoshop or paint)

Uponthehill, before deciding on that last drawing just realize that if you do that, sure you're hiding mess from the view of DR, but, all the aisles are narrower than the recommended 42" because of the counter overhang AND you've got the counter stools sitting in the pathway and in front of the pantry door.
So when dh walks in from work and your daughter is sitting at the counter doing homework or just hanging out while you make dinner he's either going to have to squeeze by her or more likely cut through your work area. And if he's sitting at the counter stool and your daughter wants to grab something from the refrig she's going to leave the hearthroom and again walk right through your work area. In theory it may not sound like much. In reality over the course of years it can be incredibly annoying.

I just reread your initial post here and realize that you were building an oven/microwave stack on the end of the counter run. That's another good reason to put it at the end, and move the pantry door around the corner. For some reason I thought you were putting your oven directly under your cooktop, in which case a range is def a better idea.

Another idea to keep in mind while planning cabs is drawers in bases as opposed to doors.
Illinigirl did an amazing job of analyzing her kitchen work zones while working on her plan. If you can go back and find it it's enlightening. I saved one of her photos.

She determined her work zones and made sure she had adequate space for each with landing zones where needed. She also figured out where everything was going to live in her kitchen and how she would access it and where it was being used before building. It's a good exercise. If you start to think about where you're keeping the dishes, where the coffee maker lives, what drawer you'll use for flatware, it helps to layout your cabinets.

Wow, ML and BP- thank you both so much! I cannot wait to analyze this with my hubby later this morning. We are in for a cold day here and may have ice tomorrow. I think it is time to sit down with pen, paper and your inspiration and see what we can do!!

I will keep everyone posted throughout the day.

Thank you all so very much!!

one more

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-minimalism-traditional-kitchen-toronto-phvw-vp~1122022)

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Toronto Kitchen & Bath Designers BiglarKinyan Design Partnership Inc.

upon-my suggestion - actually draw it out on graph paper to scale (1sq = 6" or whatever). It works wonders and if you make a copy of your original with the outside dimensions only, you can play around with it easily. I sketched so many I can't even begin to tell you. Then you can easily lay it out maybe how you WANT and then see how that effects your doorways and if it is possible to move them at this point then you'll know just where. You can print free graph paper from many sites online so you don't have to run to the store, ask me how I know. ;)

If you don't use MW much then you surely have enough room in the pantry for it.

If it's not too late I agree with bpathome on the pantry door. Your kitchen for being nice and roomy actually seems to function tight appliance location wise with the placement of some of the doorways I think. ??? So with it saying it's 12'4 on that side it's actually more like 9' due to the pantry. Not that that's bad, mine is 15x9 but no other wall where your oven is which allows easier config of island with seating I think, or less choices and opportunities for analysis paralysis. It seems almost harder to figure out with all that space. :)

I like the shallow cabinets, they look very useful without gobbling up the aisle. I just wonder where you are thinking to put your everyday stuff from out of the dishwasher and what you'd use the shallow cabs for since you already have a great pantry.

Good thing it's a slow day due to weather, lots of time to ponder kitchen stuff.

https://www.houzz.com/photos/monticello-drive-traditional-kitchen-dallas-phvw-vp~846694

Funny thing is, I have loved the above kitchen for awhile now! Of course, they have not answered any questions that others have posted. What do you guys think the depth is of those cabinets on the right??

@Autumn- thanks for the advice! I am definitely going to trace the space multiple times and play around with options. Thank you so much!
You all are amazing!!

Inspiration picture:

[

[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/monticello-drive-traditional-kitchen-dallas-phvw-vp~846694)

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Fort Worth Design-Build Firms V Fine Homes

edit: you don't see anything stacked 2 deep in the cabinets. I'd guess standard upper depth of 12" maybe? The bowls on the left seem to have some extra room but again are not double deep.

edit 2: check 2littlefishies kitchen. She has a baking area with ovens and a small sink on the opposite side from sink and range. Just a visual but not identical to your space. Scroll down a ways, lots of pics.
2LittleFishies Kitchen Reveal

edit 3 (shaking head): here is her layout from top down - it appears to be a 15x15 space not counting the banquette. Scroll about a quarter of the way down or less, lots of images: Fishies Kitchen Layout

Have fun sketching - I hope it gives you an epiphany. :)

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 9:44

Wow! My head is spinning! There are so many possibilities! Off to do some sketching now and will post pics later!