"1 4TWX5ADAA1000A TRANE XL15i Single Stage Heat Pump "

--- Please clarify the model number. It should have numbers where the "ADA" is. This is needed to determine actual efficiency. The problem with the XT80 furnace is that you likely will only get around 14 SEER or less with the XL15i. I strongly advise you to go with the XV80 variable-speed, dual-stage furnace. The XT80 is NOT a variable-speed furnace.

If you go with a variable-speed system, then you could get the Honeywell VisionPRO IAQ thermostat. It controls the dual fuel system and can slow the blower down to dehumidify if set up properly.

Sizing is very important, as is proper ductwork. How was the system sized? A Manual J load calculation is the right thing to do. No system will perform well and be efficient with a poor ductwork system. From what you're providing, it looks like they already determined sizing, and it mentions that they would do a load calculation. Ask to see the results and specific heat loss and heat load values. If they can't provide them, they probably didn't do one.

ryan,
thanks for the quick follow up. We are trying to make a decision quickly because it is hot without air! We do have a separate system that is working in our finished basement.
I will have to ask what the model # is, I cannot find any other documents. He did a load calc. He also suggested variable speed, dual stage furnace, but was trying to keep my costs down since I am on a ranch over a basement, south faced, fairly tight house. My wife is not a fan of heat pumps - what is your opinion? What about the price? We also have other quotes, including a lennox, but the others did not do a load calc. Lennox did not suggest a dual fuel:

Lennox Seer:15
XC14-036, CX34-38A R-410A
Two stage furnace: G60UHV-36A-070 (80%)
White Rodgers stat, new line set, etc.
$7501.00

Are these prices in line? Heat Pump or Complete Split System? Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Not sure what area you are in, but that Trane price is better than what I recently paid for a system that isn't as nice as yours. See my system and price below. I live in NC.

XR-14 Heat pump (4TWR4036C1) (R410A)
XT90 Furnace (TUX1B080A9H3) (This is a nice non variable speed furnace. It has a high efficiency motor.)
Coil (4TXCB036BC3)
TCONT803
10 year P&L
Some minor duct work.
All the other typical install stuff.

SEER 14.00 (34600 btu cooling)
HSPF 8.50 (36800 btu at 47* / 23600 at 17*)
EER 12.00

Price $7665

Not a great price, but I don't think it was way out of line.

I am in GA... just down the road, but the Atlanta area seems to be a hub for HVAC equipment. I am just having sticker shock from what I paid for an Armstrong Unit for my basement. I plan on staying at least another 10 years, but not going to retire in this house. Looking for an upgrade, not sure about heat pumps, my wife is cold all the time. Glad I found this forum == any more opinions on Heat Pumps or this system?

Your price for the above Trane system is reasonable. That is not a variable-speed furnace, though (the XT80--he may have gotten the model # wrong by mistake). Your wife probably remembers heat pumps from a while back. They are an efficient way of heating and cooling a home now, and I would not worry about lower discharge temperatures because when the heat pump isn't the best choice for the outdoor conditions the gas furnace will run. Brand isn't a huge issue anymore since they're all similar. I wouldn't have a problem with Trane or Lennox. The Lennox has a variable-speed blower.

Ryan or anyone that has the knowledge:
First, I am going to use the variable speed furnace. Second: 4TWX5030AA1000A TRANE XL15i Single Stage Heat Pump is the correct number. The contractor uses code to keep his competitors from using his load calcs? or something like that... anyway question for the board, he is giving me the choice of r-22 or 410-a? what would you choose? r-22 is actually more expensive...

R-410A. I like the performance numbers from the R-410A XL15i units. So I assume you are going with the XV80 TUD060 furnace. Not surprising that he doesn't want to give out his load calculation info so someone can underbid him.

Thanks for your help, install will not be until Aug 4, but company is bringing an emergancy unit over to install to get me cool till then. Thought that was pretty good. Good company that is.

You will want the following components for your system (make sure you confirm model numbers before installation):

XV80 furnace: TUD060R9V3
Coil: 4TXCB032BC3 - There is another coil (031) that would work, but it would provide less EER and SEER and significantly less HSPF.
Heat Pump: 4TWX5030A1000A

The blower in the XT80 would give you a bit more efficiency, but the variable speed is more important to have in my opinion for the comfort alone.

Good luck and hope the install turns out well.

Thanks for the model numbers. The salesman said he can get the honeywell stat, but says the trane stat is just as good. According to what I have read on this forum, that is not the case. I am going to ask for the honeywell and the above model numbers.
Thanks again,
Greg

Honeywell IAQ model number YTH9421C1002. They are similar, but the Honeywell IAQ has more abilities, such as slowing the blower down to dehumidify on demand (ask specifically to have it setup like this).

greg

the Trane is a very nice system.

I agree with Ryan. You want the appropriate matching coil that provides the best performance/efficiency numbers. This makes a big difference in operational costs.

A couple of thoughts.

1.The XL15i is one of the best HPs around. If there is one downside, it may have a recip compressor rather than the preferred scroll in the 2 1/2 ton mdl. Ask your dealer.

2.what size is your home? What size condenser are you replacing? Dealer performed a load calc and provided a copy for you to review? I notice the Trane HP appears to be a 2 1/2 ton while Lennox AC was 3 ton. Better check with dealer. I would not want to be undersized in Atlanta area.

3.I personally think a high eff HP with matching var speed air handler is a better choice for your area/climate. But if you must go dual fuel, then the XV80 furnace is the obvious best choice. If sized correctly, you and your family will be pleasantly surprised as to the comfort of the XL15i pump which will provide most of your heating needs.

4.Are you doing anything about an air filter cabinet?

5.And finally, I would substitute the Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ stat over the Trane 803. The IAQ has the "dehumidify on demand feature" which the 803 does not have and it's well worth it for Hotatlanta humid summer weather.

The idea that dealer is loaning you a condenser is outstanding!

IMO

Are you getting a new lineset (refrigerant lines) or are they going to properly evacuate them and flush them? I don't see that in the quote, but either way would be necessary for the refrigerant type switch.

Loaner condenser? Interesting...

Thanks Tiger and Ryan,
here is the latest:
1:recip
2:1800 sq. ft ranch over a full basement (basement has a separate system)lennox quote was by a tech that guessed I needed a 3 ton unit. My original is 2 1/2, load calc. says 2 1/2 should work.
3:Wife is against HP. We compromised with dual fuel system. I tend to agree with you, would like to try total HP, but then again, natural gas might come down in price in the future? Need to learn more about the system. What do you not like about dual fuel?
4: I already have an aprilaire 2400 air cleaner, and aprilaire whole house humidifier that they are re-using.
5:I will indeed ask for the honeywell setup.
6:New line set, it was listed further down.

Now, a new question for the group: I have a hot kitchen, with two doors,(garage, and back), stove, etc. and it never seems to get cool enough. I want to add another supply, they suggest floor vs. wall. What do you think? Try the new system first , then add later? or put it in while they are here? BTW: "loaner" system is up and working, install won't be until August 4. Floor vent or wall?

greg

again, you are getting great equipment and if properly sized, installed, and if you have good ductwork(something very often overlooked-it should be inspected), you will be well satisfied.

a couple of thoughts. I know dual fuel systems very well as I have one several yrs old. I also know Atlanta weather/climate very well as I live a couple of hrs up I-85 from Atlanta.

This past heating season, I used apprx 60 therms of nat gas as my HP performed well over 95% of the burden for heating my home. Not much use for my var spd XV90 furnace. You can expect similar experience as well as usage. Of course, the weather will dictate your usage but Atlanta's average low winter temp is low 40s. my point is that you will rarely use your furnace in a dual fuel application except for the blower. also, with a straight HP system with var spd air handler and electric strip backup, you achieve improved operating eff over dual fuel. that is a fact. The main idea of dual fuel is to leverage your relatively inexpensive electric rate against the more expensive nat gas. But what's to leverage since you will rarely use nat gas? Dual fuel is simply overkill for your area. If I could go back, I would have purchased air handler over a var speed backup furnace. And I expect the gap between electric and nat gas pricing to only widen.

now to your wife's concern about HP heating. 10 yrs ago, it would have been legitimate. With the equipment you are looking at, your wife will not know which source of heat is operating without checking the equipment itself.

going back to your reply.

1.recip is OK, scroll preferred
2.sizing of HP is important, I want to see the load calcs in writing and I don't want to be borderline in Atlanta for cooling. 25% oversize is acceptable for HPs especially with the HW VP IAQ stat which has the "dehumidify on demand" feature.
3.answered above as to your wife's concern
4.good
5.good
6.good

as far as the hot kitchen, I would add another supply or increase the size of existing supply(s). I would do it at time of your install. Why wait? No need to. How many supplies in kitchen now? Ask dealer to calculate load for kitchen vs current cooling CFMs to kitchen. If you add another supply, I would want it same as other.

just a few thoughts that I hope will be helpful.

IMO

Tiger,

Thanks for the follow up. As others have stated, this forum is great for us folks that are buying for the first time. There is not an apples to apples comparison site out there for HVAC, so this site is great.

I will follow up with the dealer to answer all of the questions since our install is a week away. My gut tells me to go air handler like you suggest, but possible future re- sale of the house tells me dual fuel. That way I have the best of both worlds in the new buyers view. Either way, I should be better off than my 9 seer, 60% goodman!

One more note: Another contractor called and said he could beat this quote by at least $1500.00. He is not a Trane dealer, but claims he can install and service anything. The company I am going with is reputable and has great reviews on the local websites. The owner also goes to my church and is giving me, according to you guys, a fair price. What do you think of saving $1500.00, but taking a risk?

Thanks again to everyone on this site!
Greg

I don't really like the idea of sharing bid information to have a competitor (albeit a friend) beat the price. That doesn't sound very fair to me. $7542 is a good price to begin with for that system. Are you happy with the current contractor? Looks like he's been pretty thorough--load calculation, etc...

However, this one's up to you. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time the contractor's lost jobs this way. Personally, I'd want a reputable Trane dealer who is familiar with the equipment.

Greg

I would not be concerned with future resale because you will have a HP either way which allows homeowner to take advantage of Ga electric rates. One other thought. Check with your electric utility(Ga Power?) to see if they offer special electric rate incentive for winter HP heating. Many do and you won't get any price consideration from your nat gas distributor. That's for certain.

I would find it difficult to throw your dealer under the bus especially since he loaned you an AC condenser. I assume you are only waiting because he is backed up since all this new equipment should be readily available. The loan of the condenser should be worth something. And if your dealer has been in business sometime and is a Trane authorized dealer/maybe a Comfort specialist, then I would stay put. Keep in mind yawl will have to see each other at Church which is an idea I like.

I personally think the size of your HP is more important than whether you get vs air handler or vs furnace but I do lean to the air handler because of reasons outlined in previous post.

IMO
Good LucK!

I have to ask---are you using your church buddie's loaner unit and actually asking if you should consider going with a 1500 lower bid from a non dealer who could only under bid your church buddie's bid because you told him the bid?
If I was your church friend and I lost the bid at this time, that loaner would cost you about 7,000.00 for the 2 weeks usuage and I'd be removing it at first light.

Wow! I don't know what I was thinking, only that $1500.00 is a lot of money. Money is not always the most important thing. All great points by everyone, I am staying put with the reputable dealer. The other guy is reputable, just not a trane dealer. The problem with this process is that you make 3 or 4 phone calls to dealers and they call back at various times. I can see now what a tough business this is and how much money/time goes into bids. I should have never considered or posted the other bid.

BTW- I have an EMC and they are not offering any rebates. The hp should save me in the long run.

Thanks again to everyone for their insight and expertise!

I'm in the process of replacing my 20 year old air conditioner with a heat pump. I've gotten several quotes on Trane XL15i systems. The quotes all seem several thousand dollars too high to me. For a 4TWX5036A1000A with a 4TEE3F40B1000A, the contractors want between $10,000 and $11,000. The price includes removing the old oil furnace and old air conditioner.

I'd feel much better if I had a quote for parts and labor. Trane does a good job of hiding their prices. I know that AC Direct will sell an equivalent size, but lower end, system for $2000. Can the Trane really cost more than $4000? Can installation really be $6000? That's 60 hours at $100 per hour! I really don't expect the installation to take two men four days. I also don't expect to pay $100 per hour. It seems like there is several thousand dollars that are unaccounted for.

Dave,

Those prices seem high, but think about it: oil furnaces aren't easy to remove, especially if it's one of the older style ones. Your job may require significant ductwork change that we don't know about. And on top of that, the company may just be expensive, or it may just be your area. Sure, you can buy a Goodman online and save some money, but don't expect a warranty on it and good luck finding a REPUTABLE company to install it. Your price sounds around $2k higher than what I would expect for a complete replacement by a competent company. Shop around and get a few bids for your job. You're not thinking about the cost correctly. The equipment and materials are one part of the cost. Then there is labor of course. Then you have to figure in overhead and warranty. Companies have to pay insurance, taxes, vehicle costs, office staff, etc. You can't just expect to pay for the equipment and for a couple of guys' labor. Perhaps if you bought the equipment yourself and had it done by a side-jobber, but the outcome with this method is typically not very good and not warranted.