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retroreno_gw

Help with new system decision

18 years ago

Hi. I am the owner of a house built in 1952 (with mostly older windows and ducts), and am in the market for a new air condidtioning system as our compressor recently died. I'm hoping someone here can help me figure out which way to proceed or at least give me some insight.

The compressor on our air conditioning unit went out a week ago. We live in Georgia where we have hot and humid summers, and relatively mild winters. I have no idea how old our a/c and/or furnace is, but I do know it's no where near new. In addition, we put an addition on our 1500 sq ft house (about 500 sq ft, putting us now just under 2000 sq ft) a few years ago and our current system has never effectively cooled that area, and herein lies our first problem. We have obtained 3 estimates thus far, and they all appear to offer differing solutions and each one seems to be in conflict with each other as to why we have this problem.

The first quote was for a 4-ton/13 SEER a/c unit and replacing our gas furnace with a matching unit, including rerouting the furnace vent so that it heads out the side of our house via a pvc something (tube maybe), as our furnace is currently vented out our chimney flue and this does not meet today's local code. He also proposed an additional option of replacing all of our air ducts to effectively reconfigure the air flow throughout our bigger house.


The 2nd quote was for a 3-ton/13 SEER system including replacing the gas furnace and installing a rubber liner in our chimney to properly vent it out the chimney. He seemed to think that our ducts were fine (with the exception of some insulation repair), but that our master-bedroom addition wasn't effectively cooled because the blower needed to be stronger.

The final quote was for a 3-ton/15 SEER system that included a heat pump (for which we could get a rebate from our local electricity co. to almost cover the cost) since in his opinion the furnace is fine and we should run it into the ground. This would give us a dual system where we could use the gas to when desired to heat up the house quickly but the heat pump to save money. He didn't think the blower on the furnace or the ducts presented a rpoblem, but felt we needed to add a few returns and possibly another supply. He also didn't think the venting of the furnace was a problem, despite the fact that it doesn't meet current code, and we would not need to worry about the venting until the point when we replace our gas furnace.

I'm sure I've left some pertinent information out of what they said, but this is how I understood it. Can anyone help me? Do any of these proposals sound crazy or does one sound more probable than the other. I want the best, most efficient system that we can afford, although I don't necessarily care about bells and whistles. I also do not want to replace our system only to find that it doesn't solve the problem of adequately heating/cooling our addition. Can anyone help?

Comments (7)

  • 18 years ago

    You should do a cost comparison between heat pump and gas furnace as main heating source, and look at how long the payback would be. You will have to extrapolate a little because of rising energy prices. Offhand, I would say that if you are in a TVA service area, the heatpump would likely pay for itself in the long run. In a non TVA service area, it may be a close call.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks frog. I saw a cost comparison program that Tiger, I think, posted. I plan to do that today when I have time to track down exactly what I'm paying. I'm not sure whether we're in a TVA service area or not. I know they are not who I buy from, but where my provider gets it, I don't know. Something interesting to look in to.

    Does anyone else have any ideas as to the most probable reason for the lack of airflow to our bedroom addition. My husband said the air "trickles" out of the vent in that room. Also, it doesn't get as warm in the winter, either, but that is not as bothersome to us because we just use more blankets. Thanks in advance for your time.

  • 18 years ago

    retro

    first of all, I live upstate SC and know Ga weather/climate very well including Hotlanta and coastal areas. You do not want to be undersized or borderline for AC cooling. I strongly recommend a Man J load calc both cooling and heating. Insist upon this and get it in writing. If operating costs are important to you, then yes I would look at a heat pump to leverage your reasonable electric rates in Ga. I would replace both outside and inside units for a complete matching system.

    1.my first choice would be a 15 SEER HP with matching var speed air handler

    2.second choice would be 15 SEER HP with 80% eff two stg var speed furnace(dual fuel).

    3.third choice and assuming you plan to use/keep existing furnace would be a 13-14 SEER Heat pump with matching coil. what is age, mdl,size of furnace along with blower rated size?

    of course ductwork will need a thorough inspection, electrical breaker panel will need to be checked if you elect my first choice,and now is the time to address any hot/cold spots in home which usually indicates poor ductwork size/design issues not necessarily equipment size.

    you saw the link on the fuel comparison calculator.

    I can make some suggestions on equipment if you like. Regardless what you may have been told, all HPs are not alike.

    IMO

  • 18 years ago

    Visit these links....In GA you would benefit from a HRU on your AC/heat pump. I spec a 13 SEER unit...cheaper to buy....and the HRU will bump it into the 15 range. Plus you turn off your water heater for the summer.

    http://www.trevormartin.com/about.asp

    http://www.turbotecproducts.com/EPhome.html

    http://www.p2pays.org/ref/11/10104.pdf

    Gary.

  • 18 years ago

    Tiger, where in upstate SC? I am originally from Greenville.

    First off, I am way in over my head. Even trying to input the correct figures into the cost comparison program required a herculean effort on my part. I don't know if I made it more difficult than it had to be or what, but it seemed I needed to do quite a few calculations in order to enter the information needed in the required form. Thus, I don't know how accurate the info I received was, but I figured that it would cost 1.47 for the heat pump compared to 14.02 for the gas. Does that sound anywhere near possible? Further, I'm in Athens and have GA Power so to the best of my knowledge we are not using TVA.

    We had a 4th company come out Friday, and I requested he do a manual j. He came out and measured square footage and windows, and said he would get back to me by mid-week. How does that sound? On a side note, esp. considering our old house and windows, as well as the fact that our current system was not working adequately, why was a manual j not the first thing any of them did?

    As far as our current gas furnace, I think it is an early 90's model based on the copyright on the manual. It is an Amana air command 80, one of the horizontal GSI models. Is it worth keeping if it is still working? I know nothing about the blower rated size.

    When you say replace both the inside and outside units for a complete matching system, what do you mean? Are you talking about replacing the a/c and the furnace, or are there inside and outside units of the a/c. Obviously, I am clueless as to what I am doing. lol

    Gary, I've never heard of and HRU. This is something you purchase as an add-on on the heat pump? Thanks for the links. I'll have to look into it a little more--I gave it a cursory glance to even find out what an HRU is.

    Sorry if this is disjointed and that it's taken me so long to get back to this. Thanks to all of you for your time.

  • 18 years ago

    It's a fairly small box that mounts near your condensing unit. Your A/C guy cuts the discharge line from the condenser's compressor and the hot gas is routed to the HRU then back to the condenser unit. Water is circulated between the unit and your water heater thru a heat exchanger. The A/C is already moving a lot of heat around...might as well use that heat to supply your hot water. The price of the HRU's are about $350 at the supply houses...usually a special order. Install cost can vary mostly due to routing the water line...but PEX water line tubing helps cut that expense.

  • 18 years ago

    Hurricane Fay caused my HRU to not supply enough summer hot water for the first time since I've used one of these devices (25+ years). We had 5 straight days of rain and the cooler conditions kept the A/C use so minimal that I was forced to turn the water heater back on...Fay's gone now...water heater back off.