The Evolution controller would still be a good option to control the furnace. The 114ANA is just your basic builder's model air conditioner. Not a bad unit, but nothing special. The 124ANA would offer better coil protection. The 165ANA can interface with the Evolution controller to provide the Evolution diagnostics.

Wow that was quick! Appreciate the information. What other than diagnostics does the 165 provide over the 124/114?

Should be a bit quieter. Do you have the exact model number of the furnace that includes sizing info as well as the coil model number? These are needed to compare actual efficiencies. I will provide links to the literature of the three units for you to compare/view. You can see that the 124ANA is a better unit than the 114ANA in several respects: coil protection, high and low pressure switches, compressor blanket, etc...

http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8114-100-50-080207.pdf
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8124-001-25-041907.pdf
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8165-999-25-041106.pdf

Of course Bryant's Evolution outdoor unit would be the best option with 2-stage cooling, but that would drive the cost up. It's a great unit if you can fit it in the budget. Would make a great match to the 3-stage heating of the 95S.

neff

what area of country do you live?

what is your electric rate?

The Evolution furnace with Evolution controller is top of line Bryant HVAC. Why go 1/2 way with low end builder grd condenser. Substitute the Preferred 15 AC or HP(mdl 165A AC or 265ANA HP) and you will have one heck of a system. Make certain the matching evap coil provides the best performance/efficiency numbers. Most important!

IMO
Good Luck!

I appreciate all the info.

tigertunes,

Live in north west IL.

As for electric bill, here is what is says on the bill.

Energy Charge: 1,320 x 0.09195 121.37

So I am guessng 9.195 cents per kW?

So what is the typical (Just guestimate) price difference between the 114 and the 165 or even the Evolution? Would they have to recalculate the duct work?

Price varies by dealer and location so it would be futile to take a guess. If the sizes stays the same, the ductwork shouldn't have to be redesigned. Since the Evolution comes in full-ton sizes only, that may change things slightly.

Well the HVAC guy gets back from vacation tomorrow, but I have a bad feeling we are already too far into the installation to change. I was noticing today they already have the condenser coils installed on the furnace. Am I correct in thinking we are stuck. Guess we will find out tomorrow.

I guess I am just wondering if the coils would have to be changed going from 114 to a 165 series or even an evolution? Here is a picture of what is installed so far:

What is the full model off the evap. coil above the furnace? Also, what is the full furnace model number?

The furnace model number is 355CAV according to the manual. As for the evap coil I will have to get that off it tomorrow. I am not able to zoom in enough to see it. I am guessing whatever is usually installed with the 114 model.

Bryant's Puron evaporator coils can be used in many different matchups, so the condenser upgrade shouldn't be a problem. Just need all model numbers to verify with ARI.

Appreciate the info. Should hear from the HVAC guy tomorrow. Hopefully they are able/willing to upgrade. Just hate to always think "I wish I would have". I will let you know what they say tomorrow.

It would be nice to have an upgrade, but if not, it's not the end of the world. The 114A isn't a bad unit, but it doesn't have many of the features that I'd like to see in a unit, such as louvered coil protection (albeit the 114A DOES have a dense wire coil guard), high and lower pressure switches, compressor sound blanket, etc.

If the condenser hasn't been set outside, I don't see what the problem would be with upgrading.

Well that is reassuring. There isn't a compressor outside yet. And the nice thing is even if they have it already ordered which I am sure they have, it isn't like they would be stuck with it for long.

"The Evolution furnace with Evolution controller is top of line Bryant HVAC. Why go 1/2 way with low end builder grd condenser. Substitute the Preferred 15 AC or HP(mdl 165A AC or 265ANA HP) and you will have one heck of a system. Make certain the matching evap coil provides the best performance/efficiency numbers. Most important!"

neff

you are the boss. get the outside condenser/coil changed. and with your inexpensive electric rates, it would be a mistake not to leverage with the 265ANA Preferred 15 Heat Pump.

IMO

While we are considered Midwest, we do have some really long cold seasons that sometimes hover down towards the 0-15 degrees f. With that in mind we have already decided to stick to traditional Furnace/AC vs a heat pump setup. And my wife likes the house very warm in those cold times. I am very interested to see what the difference in price will be between the 114/165/Evolution. Will find out today.

The heat pump would be in addition to your furnace to create a dual fuel setup, where the heat pump runs at milder winter temps and the furnaces takes over when the heat pump can no longer provide enough heat efficiently. I think this is where Tiger was going, since you had reasonable electric rates.

neff

the HP would run down to outside temp 30-35 degrees and the backup furnace would run below these temps. The idea is to take advantage of your good electric rate vs the more expensive nat gas.

but even at that, why would a GC or HVAC dealer recommend top of line furnace and pair with a low end builder grade AC. Definitely upgrade to the better outside condenser Preferred 15 with correct matching coil. You will not regret it!

IMO

Well spoke with the HVAC dealer today. Found out the 165 is $1250 more than the 114. And the Evolution is $1500 more than the 165. After letting me know the numbers he started crunching numbers to see what the SEER difference is between them. According to him with the 114 and the the furnace we have an effective 14.5 SEER. If we went to the 165 we would only bump up to 15 SEER. We didn't even discuss the Evolution due to the extra cost involved. So we changed the thermostat to the Evolution and called it a day.

Definitely charging a premium on those upgrades... Glad you went with the Evolution thermostat. Did you discuss the 123A by chance?

Honestly I completely forgot about the 123A. I was pretty much set on the 165 but he talked me out of it.

At the same time we are already over budget by a good amount. And while I would love to just say, ahhh go ahead and put the bigger model in there. It is probably for the better that they are not too eager to sell me the bigger one.

One thing that was weird about the price was when I first asked he said it was $1250, but later in the conversation he mentioned that it wasn't worth the $700 upgrade. So what I am wondering is if the upgrade was actually $700 and $1250 was going to be the price of the unit by itself.

Could be, sounds about right for the 165A, but prices vary. I'd still like to see if you got the tin-plated copper coil (preferably, 10 year warranty I believe) instead of the standard copper coil.

neff

I agree with Ryan. The 114 is simply low end POJ. There is a reason Bryant's website does not show a picture or provide specs. The 165a is compatible with the Evolution controller. Neither the 114,124,or 123 are compatible with the Evolution controller. Will it work? Yes, But why cripple a nice system with such low end junk. And it is very obvious on the pricing/selection of the outside condenser that your GC/HVAC dealer is looking out for himself, definitely not you. Don't be surprised when you see the 114. Such a shame.

IMO

I agree that with the nice indoor section, it would make sense to go with at least the 165A outside. I think the upgrade prices he's offering you are unreasonable. Only difference he should be charging you is actual equipment difference in my opinion. What else changes besides the equipment? Nothing really.

Dang it you guys lol. Actually according to this chart the only air conditioners compatible with the evolution thermostat are the preferred and above.

http://www.bryant.com/products/acheatpumps/ac/comparison.shtml

You know, from the time we started planning and building this house we have never flip flopped on anything. (Amazing I know) But it is also the only decision which I am not 100% confident of. I feel like a schmuck calling him back and changing my mind again. Feel even worst that I didn't research this a long time ago. But that is part of the first time builders experience.

That being said, something has to be said for the fact that we have not changed one thing on our plans since the build started. From what I have heard this is rare.

I think I remember reading that other air conditioners could be used with the Evolution control, but only select models had the ability to interface with the Evolution control BUS to provide diagnostics. Something you'll have to ask your contractor about.

don't feel like a schmuck. It's your house. Remember that.

You will be glad to know the HVAC guy called this morning and we told him to just go with the 165. I do feel better now :) Thanks for everyone's input.

neff

Congrats on getting the 165-you will not regret it.

I just hate seeing nice new home construction with a low end HVAC and GCs/HVAC dealers making poor decisions and/or not laying out a homeowner's options for upgrade and then pricing the upgrades at absurd prices.

Let us hear back from you when you move in and test drive the great system you will be getting.

The only change I would have made was the 265 HP in lieu of the 165 AC. It would have paid for irself by leveraging your good electric rate.

IMO