It isn't the water softener.

Tangling is separate issue. My first thought would be overloading.

As I said, I have older Duet 9400...very similar to yours...and do not have this problem. A few tangles once in a while -- as with any machine -- but nothing like what you're describing.

I can't help but think there are things being missed in diagnosing both problems.

Well I bypassed all the soft water. I am doing another clean washer w/ 1/4 cup bleach and so far no suds.???

Question: does the water from the soft water go to the water heater? or does the hot water go from water heater than thru the softner?

Well as for overloading I do a normal size basket, the techs have told me I can do alot more than that. I have tried different smaller loads and same result. I will not try to put what the manual recommends, that would be overload, my washer would probably blow up :)

I have been trying to send pictures and Im doing something wrong? I am doing copy & paste the URL from "photo bucket" but it wont work it keeps rejecting. As you can tell I dont know computers to well, I will keep trying.

Hi all,
I had been saying that my old washer Frigidaire didnt have that issue, it didnt with the tangling, but I went and found a post pg 48 about 1/2 way down that I wrote last July, and I kinda remember now about having the soap not rinsing out for a couple of weeks before I went and bought this new one, but it did have mold and struts needed replaced so I decided to get a new one.It was 7 yrs old, also the door lock was broke.

So THANKS for all your help on that issue, it has to be something in the house that is causing the soap problem!

When the tech was here to check the 1st new washer he had to open the washer to seperate the clothes so they would spin, he did say that there was way too much soap, that is when he checked the drain & pump etc. but didnt go any further to check because he knew that they would replace it due to tangling.

I was given a replacement washer for the tangling up and they cant figure it out.

I know that it has changed from a tangling issue to soapy, I think that it seemed easier to figure that out, I will someday get the soap issue resolved. Now I really think its the watersoftner. its all driving me crazy! I wonder if it could be the brand of pellets we use in the softner, because we did change brands???

I still am interested in finding out about people that are having the tangling issue, I was told from whirlpool that they did have that problem with I think "Cabrio or Calypso but he hadnt heard of the duet doing that.

Anyway I still want to post pics of twisted clothes.

Are you sure someone isn't playing a practical joke on you with this soap thing?

You've described clear contamination issues. However, you have been unable to identify the source of the excess. It isn't the water softener. Is isn't ghosts. I suspect 1) It's already in the clothes 2) You have a bogus batch of HE detergent that actually isn't HE or has been contaminated with non-HE 3) You, yourself, are grossly mis-measuring and/or mis-reporting the amount of HE detergent you're actually using. 4) Someone is adding more when you're not looking.

There's too much soap in there. Where is it coming from? There's something strange going on there. Something you're not noticing. I don't believe in nefarious super-natural happenings so I suspect something much simpler.

Continue to suspect your machine is probably fine.

Hi,
I finally got the pictures, but its in photobucket just click the link below.

No Im not doing anything wrong :) I even had my husband watch me add the soap, cause for a while I was wondering that maybe I was.

I dont think that someone is sneeking in my house when Im
not looking.

I dont think a ghost is doing it, well I hope not, that wouldnt be too nice of him.

Like I said the only thing I can think of is the change in pellets?

The pictures are of 3 different loads of colored cottons washed on casual cycle. everytime I wash them they get so twisted & braided up.

Than there is a load of whites that I did that took 2 washes- 10 rinses -plus each wash I did extra rinse, as you can see there is still so much soap in them.

Than a load of 4 small towels, that I have washed with NO SOAP since April 1st you can see how little water there is in the towels, the pictures were taken as it was tumbling.

Do you think that there is enough water?

So why would this be happening? I have no idea!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Appears to be normal water level. Hard to tell from pix about load-size so no comment. Suds shown far less than I was expecting from your description. Appears to be residual level.....except you've described many-multiple rinses so I'm confused by the persistence.

You're saying nine/ten additional rinses of this load -- with nothing added, as in NOTHING -- and this residual soap is still there?

Did you check your water meter reading before and after washer fill, as I have mentioned in my previous messge ?
That will tell you how many gallons the washer is using.

Asolo, Yes hard to believe huh! NOTHING added I havent put anything in my towel loads since APRIL 1st! any of my towels since April 1st. I decided to only wash small loads of 4 towels to see if they would rinse. I wash all my towels at "least" 2xs a week, if not more, I usually wash about 6-7 towels a load. I have washed those towels at least 12 xs with no soap I did try the 1/4 cup vinegar in a couple loads in the other washer NO CHANGE.

As for the whites I used 1/8 TBL Tide He 1/4 cp bleach HE and they are what took all 10 + xtra rinses and 2 washes. the pictures are of 2nd wash and the 10th and last rinse.

Do you believe that is normal residual after all the wash that they have been thru???

I have been doing laundry for 35 years and I have never in my life of doing laundry seen anything like that! except when they are washing!!!the first wash with soap!!!

You believe that is normal water level? How is it suppose to rinse?

As far as the water meter ,I have a bad back and cant go outside to lift the cover lid off the meter and get on my knee and bend down to read something that is in the ground far down, My husband works on a hot roof from sun up to sun down I am not going to have him watch it as its filling up, I asked him and he doesnt think that it shows gallons, other than that we dont have another meter.

We are now having electrical problems and I cant even run the washer, no large appliances it lights up the fuse panel box, so now I have to deal with that :(

So I am still waiting to see what anyone thinks of the twisting???

The water level looks normal to me, for this kind of HE frontloader. The clothes tumble while the machine fills, absorbing water as they go until they're completely saturated. Fill continues beyond that until the water level pressure switch senses the tub has filled to a specific level past the saturation point. Although the level in the tub will look the same on every load, the machine doesn't always fill with a specific X gallons of water. The amount varies depending on how large is the load and how much water the clothes absorb. Cotton towels are much more absorbent than nylon lingerie for example, so more water is needed to saturate the towels and then reach the target level in the tub.

As I recall from the service literature (on an older model), and assuming I'm understanding it properly, the Duet's control system has three water levels: L1, L2, and L3. The water level switch triggers at the lowest level L1, which is used primarily during the washing phase. Level 2 is used for rinsing and is reached by the flowmeter measuring/adding 50% more water to whatever amount it read when the water level switch tripped at L1. L3 is 150% more water over what the flowmeter read for L1, and is used for the cool-down phase on certain cycles (and possibly for rinsing and soaking). If the flowmeter reads that 10.5 gallons has entered the machine, the control board stops fill regardless of whether the water level switch has tripped ... this is protection against overfilling if the water level switch fails or a very long or continuous fill as might happen if the machine springs a leak or water is siphoning out the drain hose.

Keep in mind also that with the ever-increasing push for water and energy efficiency, the three target levels may be lower on newer machines than they were on older models.

The twisting is maybe a little more than I'd expect, but I don't think it's unusual for a frontloader ... particularly with the kinds of items that look to be in the loads. The frontloader-type of washing action, rolling the clothes over and over, by nature will result in twisting. Have you experimented with smaller and larger loads, different mixes of items, and various cycles? One problem that sometimes does result from extreme tangling is that the "clump" of clothes can't separate during spin for good balancing.

If there really was no detergent used on the towels, then the suds can't be coming from anywhere but the towels themselves. Either old detergent residue or residue of some ilk from bath or personal care products. I'd say maybe bubbles stirred up in the very soft water ... but it does look soapy, not just bubbly.

Being that pretty much all frontloaders are going to work this way now, your only choice for satisfaction may be getting rid of it in favor of a traditional agitator toploader.

And ... embedding a picture into a post is done by clicking on the code labeled "HTML Code - Websites & Blogs" that PhotoBucket displays with the picture, then pasting that code into the post ... as I have done below.

You do know that the HE bleach contains "surfactants" that will cause suds. It didn't when you used the hard water but does when using softened. I have naturally soft water and I get more suds when I use the HE bleach or the "splashless" version also. According to Clorox it has the "surfactants" that the regular Clorox (plain) bleach doesn't have and they will cause suds.

I would also switch to powder detergents. HE Liquids suds up MUCH more than powder and they also cause stinking and mold and build-up more than powder. I don't know where you read that liquid was best but according to service techs of F/L machines I have talked to all say use only powdered for best results!

Try some Charlies Soap because it makes NO suds plus it will strip out all the detergent build up you have from previous times.

The suds. I agree with Sparkey - drop the bleach. I used to use color safe bleach with my top loader and it created a ton of suds which got added to my already sudsy problem in that top loader. Try another detergent. Bio-kleen enzyme rinses well(can be found at drugstore.com) and many folks like Charlies Soap so give these a try.

The twisting. I gotta say I have never experienced this. I've never seen anything like it. This is normal? Others with FL have you seen this much twisting before? I'll have to think about this more.

I'm out of ideas on the soap thing. Glad several others aren't. Will be interested to learn eventual outcome/resolution.

The twisting thing's got me, too. My older Duet 9400 is very similar to OP's machine and I haven't had this. Only idea I have is overloading, but the OP seems pretty conscientious about this, too, so I'm reduced to a spectator.

mc58posted:

happymomof2kids,
Thanks for your info.
Maybe? but I cant hear water draining other than when its suppose to, the hose is up at 32in. You say that has happened to you? how was it detected? How does it siphone out?

Is the drain hose suppose to be 32in high? that is what mine is at.

mc58,

Sorry it took so long to respond back. I have not personally had the siphoning problem, but I know people who have and it is quite common if the machine is not installed properly.

If the siphoning is gradual, you won't hear it. As for the height of the drain hose, it should be listed in the paper work that came with the machine. The machine should have come with a set up manual and a instructional manual as to the use of the machine.

The best way to check to see if there is enough water in the machine is, if you can, pause the machine at various stages of wash and rinse after water has stopped filling, open the door and feel the clothes. They should feel saturated as if you just dipped an article of clothing in a bucket of water. If you pull an article out of the washer, it should drip.

If not, there could be several problems.

1)There is a siphoning problem, where the water is slowly draining out during the cycles preventing the rinse from getting all the detergent out.

2)The machine you have is a rebuilt and there is detergent residue from a previous owner in it or just build up from your use because of the type of detergent you use and your water condition. You can find this out by running an empty cycle with just vinegar in the hottest water and longest setting and check for suds. If your washer will not run empty then purchase a few cheap towels or rags from the dollar store, put them in a bucket of water with vinegar to make sure they haven't been previously washed by the manufacturer. You are basically making sure they will not foam on their own. Once you are positive they will not foam by themselves, place them in the washer, wash on the hottest longest setting you can with only vinegar added and check to see if it starts to foam.

3)You have soft water and you are using Tide HE. All Tide detergents whether HE or not have water softeners in them. It very well could be that no matter how little Tide you use it will build up very badly causing detergent residue, especially with the little amount of water HE machines use in general. A solution would be to switch to a detergent that has none, like store brands, Charlie's, etc. You can find this out by bringing your clothes to a laundry mat, washing them in a regular top loader with a cup of vinegar in the hottest water they can take. Check the wash and if you see soap suds, you have detergent build up.

4)I seriously doubt water pressure would be a problem as the Whirlpool Duets have automatic fill instead of you selecting the amount of water yourself. In other words, the washer is suppose to sense the amount of water required as per load size. That means that there is a more technical problem with the washer not sensing there is not enough water to wash the clothes.

5)What is the spin cycle doing? What do you have the spin set on? Is most of the wash water getting pulled from the clothes before the rinse? If too much soapy water remains when the rinse cycle starts, the rinse, maybe even two rinses will not be able to get out the detergent.

6)I noticed you said you use bleach. What kind? Is it a type of Oxi bleach or color safe bleach? Both of those can continue to foam in an HE machine due to the little water an HE machine uses. I only use Clorox color safe bleach made specifically for HE machines and only have to use a very little of that as well.

7)If you are using regular bleach, then stop using the vinegar. Mixing the two causes a chemical reaction which could be producing gases there in by cushioning the clothes as they wash preventing them from washing and rinsing properly. It will also damage the machine over time.

8)If you are using powdered tide he, do not use the vinegar with it. Tide HE powder has sodium carbonate which will react with the vinegar as it would with baking soda. Foam, foam, foam, and the reaction between the two is not good for your machine either. Since you are using a regular detergent and not a homemade laundry soap, I wouldn't even recommend vinegar be used unless you are doing an occassional wash with vinegar by itself to remove residue.

9)Just in case, because you have soft water, do not use laundry detergent boosters. Boosters such as Calgon, Borax, and Arm and Hammer super washing soda basically boost detergent productivity by softening water, which you do not need.

10)The drain or drain hose is clogged and not all of the water is getting drawn from the clothes after the wash and rinse cycles. This is easily determined by feeling the clothes when they are done. They should be damp, not saturated.

These are all the things I can think of off hand. I know there is a lot. However, if you can do some of the trouble shooting yourself and explain to the tech the procedures you used, it will be easier to determine the problem. It will also be a little harder for them to argue with you as to what the problem is or deny there is a problem when you have at least some scientific analysis to back that there is.

Hope this helps.

Oh and thought of one more thing. Sorry but this is something most people do not think about. Are you sure, your detergent is HE? It may say HE on the bottle, but there may be reg inside. The reason I ask is someone may have done a switcheroo on you. This has happened to me. A store has a good sale on an reg detergent, but the HE is not on sale. A person who uses HE will go in and buy both the reg on sale and the HE that is not. Then they switch the liquids in the bottles. They will then bring the HE bottle, which is actually full of reg detergent, back and sneakily get there money back for the HE that was not on sale. Of course, the bottle looking full gets put back on the shelf, and someone else ends up buying it. Do a suds test to be sure.

procedure for suds test found on link below.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/laundry/2004120607008431.html

I don't want to start a Holy War concerning liquid vs powered detergent. But I will say that I've been using liquid Tide HE since I got my LG 3 years ago.

In mine, the detergent fill has a little level mark on it. I learned the hard way that one should NEVER fill to the mark. I use the little cup that came with the gallon of Tide and use lesser amounts than recommended. I think it is a bit less than a 1/4 cup, though how much I could not tell you. I've also used equal amounts of Clorox Colorfast(or whatever that stuff is) bleach with colors. With whites I use regular Clorox and I put it in the bleach fill container (in the LG).

My sudsing looks similar to yours, maybe a bit more while the machine is running. The LG has a tilted tub and the water level look similar to yours.

Couple of things that have been explained: The water level is not set from the weight of the cloths. It is set depending on the cycle selected and by how much water gets absorbed in the cloths themselves. The LG has a water level sensor and in injects water a bit at a time until the level gets to be where it wants for the chosen cycle. I bet the WP does pretty much the same. As it fills, it splashes the cloths around giving them a chance to soak up the water. It keeps filling until it reaches the 'mark' and refills if the level drops below the 'mark' (more like a 'range' than a 'mark, but you get the idea).

It is probably good to note that some cycles use more water than others. I've found that on mine, the Permanent Press cycle has the most water.

I'm a guy so I wash guy-stuff, like shirts and pants, and I've never seen tangling quite like you have. I mean, there may be SOME, but I just throw the bunch in the dryer and it takes care of it.

Soft water could be your issue here, along with that Bleach you're using.

Oh yes, the water line height. Basically, the height of the 'loop' in the hose should be the same height as where it exits the back of the washer. Basically, since it could probably be an inch or so lower, but not more.

If it's just your husband and yourself, then I would wonder if your towels are getting extra soap on them from the bath somehow. Does your H use waterless hand soap that he might wipe off on a towel?

Wow! I have been using front loaders for about 15 years, and I have never seen, nor heard of anything like this. Here's my two cents FWIW.

1) Soft water can definitely be a problem in any washer. I remember a friend who had an older Kenmore with the super roto-swirl agitator who had a whole house softer...if she used more than a teaspoon (literally...a LEVEL teaspoon) of detergent, the machine would form a suds cake in under 4 minutes into the cycle. If the lid was closed, suds would be inside the machine and on the floor. I NEVER saw so much suds from so little detergent. It was then I decided I would never have a water softner. Hated it.

2) I have NEVER seen tangling like this in a front loader...EXCEPT in the old-style single-direction tumblers (which is why reverse tumbling was introduced). They could do this...especially if you picked up all the clothes at once and stuffed them in. I tend to load items one or two at a time. But, given the tilted drum and the slanted baffles in my Bosch 700...I've only ever experienced very minor tangling...and only then in a load of all long pants and long sleeve shirts. Certainly, NOTHING on the scale of what you've shown in the pictures. I have NEVER seen things twisted and knotted like that. Are you certain the machine is operating correctly and reverse tumbling?

3) Are you certain the machine is spinning after the wash and between the rinses? The higher speed spins are what help to really get out the detergent.

4) I agree with other posters about the possiblity of bath/personal products which cause sudsing getting on your towels.

5) I have overdosed detergent in towels myself (even using Charlie's soap) because I always wash them in very hot water. The hotter the water, the more suds seem to form. However, the Bosch automatically adds an extra rinse to take care of this...and even with a drum full of suds, by the final rinse, the water is perfectly clear...drinkable even.

6) It's a scientifically provable fact that multiple shallow rinses provide better rinsing than a single deep rinse. Various posters have shown this here over the years. So...lower water levels can certainly get out soap residue IF the machine is operating properly.

As others have stated, there is some "unknown" here...which I personally believe to be a mal-functioning machine. Tangling like you have is NOT normal in a reverse tumble front loader. One thing Whirlpool did to alleviate this almost completely from their very first machines was to cut the baffles/vanes down in the front of the tub. This was necessary because tilting the tub does not help with the tangling issue. This is also why Bosch uses the severely slanted baffles. Even so, I have still never seen tangling (actually I would call what you've shown twisting and knotting...tangling is minor compared to your pictures) this bad in any front loader I have used or witnessed being used.

As far as all the soap residue...I second trying Charlie's Soap...and using un-softened water. I too believe (in my experience) that powders are better than liquids...however, as is clear here there are people who have used liquids with no problem whatever. I grew up using Wisk (when it REALLY cleaned stuff) and never saw a residue buildup in my mother's machine (and I tore it down a couple of times). These new liquids though...I just think some of them are trouble. LOTS of bad reports on some of the Tide liquids.

All around I have to say this is bizarre. I would love to actually sit and watch the machine through a whole cycle and look at your practices...because I've just never seen this and it's like grasping at straws to figure it out. I do believe that SOMETHING is wrong with the machine. It is NOT performing as designed in some way.

The utility company's water meter should show gallons...
He wouldn't have to sit there while it's filling (what? a few minutes?) he could check it before & after a wash fill.
That way you'll know for sure how many gallons are used in a fill or rinse.

Also, I just checked my LG WM2688 washer with a full load of clothes, and after it's done filling,
the water level in the drum was 2" in the front and 4" in the back, behind all the clothes.

The washer is level, the tub is tilted 10

Measured with a wooden yardstick, broken off at a nice 12" length.
The wood yardstick shows the water level nicely.

You say your drain hose pipe is 32 inches high--is your front loader on a stand(can't think of the right word)? Some of the stands are 14 inches and add height to the machine. Someone mentioned drain water being taken back into machine................just a wild thought...........

Reading the water meter to find the gallons used is a good idea unless your meter is like mine and reads in hundredths of cubit feet. I have no idea............. I used 10 last month and paid 61 dollars that's all I know.

Liquid vs. powder. I really think some of this depends on the water conditions and how the detergent formulation reacts with them. In the mid 80's I used to be able to use regular Tide liquid in my front loader until I tried Liquid Tide with Bleach alternative - foam all over the place so I switched back to regular.

Later in the mid 90's I could not get regular liquid tide to rinse well in my TL so switched to powdered tide which did better but still would not rinse.

A few months ago I tried Tide HE powder just to see how it would work. Low suds, but very very poor rinsing(My washer drains into the sink beside it so I can see how good/bad the rinse are). I have never had good rinsing from any type of tide product since the 1980's and my water is not very soft. So what I am saying is that what detergent works for some may not work for all top loader or front loader, liquid or powder. I would definitely try a different detergent.

Twisting: How well does the machine spin after the wash and between the rinses? I ask because my machine tries like everything to make sure it does that spin after the wash. It has even tried 12 times to get it and if the load is unbalanced at that point it will skip the spin and add a rinse. Even when it has a harder time getting the first spin, the rest of the spins are easier which makes me think that detergent in the clothes makes it harder for it to balance and spin up to speed properly.

So perhaps the amount of detergent still in the clothes is having some impact on how well the washer can spin which of course intensifies the problem. Does anyone think the detergent residue may be responsible for the twisted clothes...they are spongy and stick together?

You mentioned the pellets in the water softener. Do you know how they are different from the prior pellets? Did the water softener get set differently so that the water is softer?

7.5 gallons per cubic foot

Hi,
WOW It is going to tame a while to answer all this, I thank all of you who have taken the time to read and post to help!

First of all, I havent been able to do anymore tests with the washer beacause electrical problems.

But I will tell you that the soap we use for showers, Zest & Carress, Shampoo -Pantene,sometimes I use a gel soap, But we do rinse off real well because we are sensitive to soap, so I dont think its that.

When I do cleaning or use anything that has to do with soap I rinse the rags out real good, even when I wash my face with washcloth I rinse it real good, so I dont know?

I cant remember where I heard about powder was worse than liquid, but with my experience with my frigidair fl I was using a powder at first, but it always left a bunch in the dispenser that was hard to get clean, and I heard that it doesn't completely disolve, and stays in the bottom of the tub, thats when I started to use the liquid. The same with the fabric softner, I would take the dispenser out and look in the back of the compartment with a flashlight and it was all black with mold, I couldnt reach it to clean it so I would use an old toothbrush, didnt help much, but Im sure that is happening with anyone that has a fl.

I dont use fabric softner anymore, but if you do you are suppose to add to a cup of water first, I didnt know that.

I am going to try Biokleen or Charlies that alot of you recommend if I can find it, I have looked at a walmart and 2 local stores and havent been able to find it yet.

I am not overloading it, and I mix up the load with different sizes of items, it is suppose to handle large loads that is why I purchased it, so I would have so many loads to do. What I have found out is that it cant wash more than a tl, it cant handle what my smaller fl did, and it is suppose to be able to.

The tangling & baiding, its bad and with a bad back its real bad. My older fl, some times clothes would kinda be wrapped around each other but nothing like tangled together, and it only tumbled one way? I load the washer a piece at a time after I have buttoned and zipped and checked pockets and turn some of them inside out,I cant lift a whole load and just shove in there.

dadoes
thank you for the info on the washer, I do feel like getting a different washer, I wish I would have just fixed my old one again. when I did do just one picture I did something wrong because it wouldnt put the picture up it put the (photobucket) link, I must of hit the thing.

sparky823
I didnt know that, why would they want us to use it when it puts out that much suds?

happymomof2
I always use high spin on the the towels and med spin on the casuals.
The bleach I use is "only with whites" is clorox reg or HE Ive tried both, it does seem that withe HE I get more suds, I did a clean washer cycle with reg bleach and it didnt suds up like the other times.

The weird thing is that with the clothes that are getting so tangled up I only have to rinse 2 times to get the suds out. You would think that they would have more soap than because they get so tangled up.

I only tried the vinegar a few times and didnt notice a differnce so I quit using it.

I dont use anything other than the Tide He & bleach.

We have checked the drain and hose and they are fine.

When I dry my clothes it takes anywhere from 60-80 minutes and its a 2 year old dryer.

I had to cancell appointment with the tech untill we get our electricity fixed, I think we have to update the fuse panel.

I hope I can get the tech to really listen, they tend to interup when Im trying to tell them everything. I know its alot to explain to them but they need to hear it all right.

I have 3 different bottles of different brands HE soap. I cant believe people would actually switch soap to return!

weedmeister
I dont have a permanent press, I have a delicate that is suppose to add more but I dont see it.

No waterless soap here.

srswirl,
I am going to be doing another test on the soft water issue, I have shut it off, so I will have to wait to find out, I guess I could go to the laundrymat but that might be awhile cause I cant lift, my husband will have to go too. Than I might have to wait till elec problem fixed.

The tech was here last time before I got the replacement washer and everything was working the way its suppose to. and this machine is working the same.Except if it cant spin due to not balanced than it shuts itself off and I can tell cause the clothes are wet, so I seperate and restart.

Whirlpool told me that they have never had a problem with this certain model tangling ever.

Thanks for recognizing that this tangling is not just tangling its worse.
I would think That maybe they happened to give me one that had been returned with the same issue, but it did have all the wrapping and new tags and everything on it.

regus
I will have him check it when we can run the washer.
when I look at the water when it has finished loading with water I have to push the clothes back to see any water, except the whites, I can see the water but I will have to check with ruler but I dont think it is that much. It looks like it puts more water to do a wash machine cycle than I have ever seen with clothes in it.

jerrod6
It seems to be doing all the spins and rinses ok, but I will have the tech check that.

The machine will shut down if it cant spin.

When I do the clothes that get so twisted, I only have to rinse 2 times so I dont know if that is the problem, I have done a load and havent put soap in to see if they were soapy, they were not so I paused it and it wouldnt unlock so I could put some soap in, so they went the whole cycle and they were twisted up!

The pellets are a cheaper brand than what we had been using and we were using the salt not pellets before, I dont know how to set it different other than change how many times it recycles.

I dont think my washer is using that much water, But I will find out.

"When I dry my clothes it takes anywhere from 60-80 minutes and its a 2 year old dryer."

Entirely different topic. Check your vent. Unless you're using an inappropriate cycle-setting, I'd wager your vent is obstructed. Very common. Seldom noticed until troubles -- such as you've described -- begin.

don't know about biokleen, but charlies is at www.charliesoap.com the site will sell to you with no shipping charge, and it lists retail locations by state... I have also bought off ebay...

asolo
The reason I mentioned dryer is, just wondering if that is normal for it to take that long with such a high spin washer cycle, the clothes dont feel almost dry when taken out of washer, as some people claim. I dont have a plugged vent, due to new vent hoses to outside.Thats all,I dont want to diagnose my dryer!

plumbly,
thanks for the info on where to grt Charlies. I will get some.

You can order biokleen enyzme detergent online from drugstore.com

"...hoses to outside..."

Don't know what you mean by that. Typical dryer vent installations do not have "hoses to outside." I suspect you may be referring to the flexible hose that connects your machine to the vent duct that leads to outside exhaust -- which would be a deficient evaluation. However, if what you meant by saying this is that you've examined the ENTIRE vent path from machine through the connecting "hose".....through the length of the vent pipe....to the outside exhaust port.....and have determined it is unobstructed, that's all there is.

As long as we buy bleach I guess they (Clorox) won't care if it suds up or not. I figure that Clorox thinks that no longer than it is in the wash cycle it doesn't have time to soap up much--but it does.
I would just use the regular Clorox since you are having so much suds trouble. When you get the Charlies be sure to clean your machine with it the way they say to.

Something else I read from a tech one time was that when he went on service calls and was having a lot of suds trouble he always added a capful of defoamer like you use in a carpet machine and he said that took care of the problem. You might try using that on the towels to rid them of the soap.

srswirl---Funny you said that about the Wisk. A servicer told my neighbor that if she would use Wisk she wouldn't have build up in her washer. At the time she had a Kenmore T/L and he had it apart and she said the gunk inside was awful and embarassing and she was using Tide and Downy. He told her all of them looked that way BUT IF she would use the Wisk it would take care of that. I hate the smell the HE Wisk has though.

if/when you get the charlies... don't be sureprised to see sudsying your frist few loads of everything... while it's puling out old soap... In particular my towels (I know you already have problems with them) were horrible the first few washes... that said... I still have towel problems once in a while... but only with the towels form my teens/pre-teens... I KNOW they have shampoo and body wash residue on those towels... I just know it! but I always end up with clear final rinses with the charlies now... oh yes, also.. don't be surprised for the first while with it that all your clothes feel a bit stiff... actually it almost made me just toss the stuff... but if you hang in there for at least the first bag of the stuff... it gets much better and you will NOT need fabric softner again (except for static)... I use no more than 1/8 of a dryer sheet in the loads I 'expect' static in to eliminate it...

One other thing is that some non color safe bleach that contains chlorine does contain surfactants which create suds. I found this out because I use bleach to clean my saltwater aquarium micro filters. Detergents and suds are bad for fish so I avoid them. I bought one of the newer Clorox's, I think it was Clorox Ultra. I filled my container with cold water, pured the bleach into it and a mass of suds formed. I stopped and checked the bleach and compared it to my last bottle which I found was Clorox regular. I went back to Clorox regular bleach and that solved the suds problem.

Note too that the Clorox web site says that only Clorox regular bleach is approved for sanitation and disinfection, so if you are using the other versions for that purpose you are not getting what you want from them.

Drying usually takes me from 20-40 minutes, depending.

You shouldn't have to put cloths in to measure the water level. The idea is that the machine puts in enough water to reach the desired level whether cloths are there or not.

sparky823 - Since there was never any discernable build up in my mother's machine, the Wisk must have been great...but remember...this was the 60s and 70s when it was a superb detergent. I wouldn't give you 2 cents for it now. I've grown to detest the scents of detergents in general...one main reason I chose to go with Charlie's...and the fact that it cleans well...like detergents used to. But...detergents are a whole other discussion. I never wash anything in cold water now...but I remember when I convinced my mother to try Cold Power...now THAT was an amazing detergent. My father was an auto mechanic...and Cold Power would take out all his various grease and gasoline stains with ease...in COLD water. Amazing detergent. Of course, they eventually got rid of it...like all the "good ones".

Back in the 'olden days'...powdered detergents wouldn't 'melt' well and left specks of detergent all over the clothes. My Mom then switched to liquid Tide, which I too then used liquid Tide for years and was very happy until my dish cloths/towels/washcloths started smelling sour.

Now, I switched to Charlie's powdered. It melts, I LOVE it. I don't have those sour smelling items anymore either. And, even though I have a TL, there are virtually no suds in the machine now. It has taken several washloads, but the suds have gone away.

I checked my LG WM2688 washer with a full load of clothes, and after it's done filling,
the water level in the drum was 2" in the front and 4" in the back, behind all the clothes.
The washer is level, the tub is tilted 10°

> You shouldn't have to put cloths in to measure the water level. The idea is that the machine puts in enough water to reach the desired level whether cloths are there or not.

The LG water level sensor measures the water frequency (?)

With an empty load,

1/2" in front
2 1/2" in the rear

All I can add to this thread is that my neighbor has the "Duet" series washer and dryer, and so far, has been less than impressed by her experience. The washer has ruined some of her clothes, and the dryer needed a service call under warranty for some electrical issue. Not all Whirlpool machines are like this though. As with buying any appliance, it's all trial and error. Shop around, compare prices and performance, and choose wisely.

Good luck!

The sad thing, I came here and read alot of posts about the duet and didnt find horror stories, that Is why I chose that one.

weedmeister
I cant believe that your clothes are dry in 20-40 minutes, is that a basket full?

asolo,
Yes I meant the vent from machine to the outside.It has solid pipe except about 2 feet of flex fom machine.Its ok.

I will get the charlies soap. From what Im reading it sounds good

Thanks to everyone for your info I really appreciate it.

FWIW....full washer-load of "normal" laundry (including towels, jeans, some heavier stuff like that) takes about 50 minutes to bone-dry in my machine using medium heat setting...one notch down from highest heat setting. I often dial in less which takes more like 35-40. Synthetics and lighter stuff takes 30-40 to bone-dry. Caveat: I live in a dry climate so make-up air would have lower humidity going in. Would expect longer in higher-humidity area.

Wow, if Im drying 7 towels it takes about 80, jeans they can take up to 120 that is 5 jeans, 5 tshirts. What kind of dryer do you have? I think I might want one.

Dryer is part of Duet pair bought three years ago. Electric.

Dryers are essentially all the same except for a few control options. If heated air is flowing through and it's tumbling, stuff gets dry. There isn't anything else going on. If you're taking two hours for 5 jeans and 5 shirts, something's wrong in there.

Air-flow, heat, tumbling -- that's it. Suspect something is wrong with one of those three in your machine. Only other thing I can imagine would be if it's grossly over-loaded but the load you described doesn't sound like it to me.

The clothes coming from the washer feel more wet than with my old Frigidaire FL. I will have to have them check that out too when they come out.

How much do you wash in your washer? as in how many levis etc in one load?

Oh, goodness. I don't keep count of levis. Perhaps another comparison would suffice. I often do full loads of towels, for example, which would be 18lbs or so dry which would be the washer's drum full but loosely packed. A load like that would take about 50 minutes as described above.

Do recall levis sometimes mixed in with a load like that and the levis are dry except a few damp spots around the densest seams. The towels are all the way dry. I suspect the machine's sensors go by the bulk and can't discern smaller damp areas on individual items. I would assume a full load of levis would dry the same way -- broadcloth areas all the way dry but a few dense seams still damp.

We fill our LG FL almost full, but don't cram clothes into it.
When the clothes are finally soaked, the are just above halfway up the door glass.

regus
I wouldnt attempt to do that in my Duet, I only do maybe half way up the door when loading. The tech told me not to do what manufacture suggest's because it will ruin the rubber seal in the door. Plus it really wouldnt rinse suds out.

FWIW.....I have been doing that in my Duet for three years. Rinses fine. No ruination of rubber seal evident. Looks new.

Perhaps I wrote it wrong. My idea of a "full" load is dry laundry loaded in loosely all or most of the way up. As in "loosely"...never packed. During the wash, what I see is clothes about 1/2-way up the door -- pretty much as regus described.

I use Tide HE powder with my soft water...about 1/3 cup for a full load. I get excellent cleaning without suds and thorough rinsing.

If it's different for you, I can't speak to it. Works for me.

Do you have a water softner machine?

"...I use Tide HE powder with my soft water..."

Thought I said this. Yes. I have softener. Kinetico. Inbound is 6-8 grains hard. Outbound is zero grains = soft.

asolo
Thank you, I didnt remember if you had said that you did.

mc58

Looks like asolo has already got ya helped, but figured I'd chime in again since I already did some testing here at home for ya.

I picked up some Tide HE liquid yesturday and have just done a wash in my Affinity using half the minimum dose suggested. (I figured my Affinity would be a decent machine to do a comparison as it has many similiar specs to yours even though it is made by Frigidaire and not Whirlpool.)

I am now on my second wash/rinse trying to get the suds out and I have hard water with no softener. From the looks of what I am currently seeing, I will have to do another wash/rinse still. Now my suds aren't high and fluffy like the ones in your picture, mine are on the flat, runny side, but I am attributing that to the fact your water is soft and mine is not.

Now my water is not the hardest water. Local water supply is 8 grains, so my water is just hard (between moderately hard and very hard) on the scale I looked at. I also know Tide recommends the use of their liquid detergents in hard water. Something tells me they have made it to be used in the hardest water found, which would explain the suds problem. Adding to the fact it is 2x concentrated now, makes it very difficult to cut the amount down enough to prevent oversudsing without diluting it into another bottle first.

After my own test it looks like it is probably the detergent, but asolo already has ya covered in that regard as he has the same machine as you and soft water as well.

Anyway, I hope this helps you for what it's worth and it looks like I may either be returning the Tide HE liquid, or diluting it in another bottle and using it for pre-treatments only.

I never paid attention before, but I'm thinking maybe I should double check my Cheer HE liquid now too since they are both made by P&G.

happymomof2kids,

Thank you for doing the test. I guess that it is probably the same thing with the All HE and the Cheer HE because it does the same thing.

I purchased some Charlies soap yesterday, and Im suppose to be getting my electricity fixed today so I'll be letting ya know how that works.
I hope you can get the suds out. Good Luck.

"regus_patoff

7.5 gallons per cubic foot"

Thanks for the conversion factor because I had no idea what amount of water is being used.