OK - will chime in here for you w/the hope that others will see this and offer you some additional feedback. caveat -- I have not read through all your previous posts so if I am repeating/contradicting something -- sorry and disregard.

In your pantry, I would also consider making sure you have air circulation in such a large space that will store food. You might consider putting vent in wall that is shared w/garage and pantry. We did this in a small pantry closet and it allows fresh air in -- I love opening that closet and having it be several degrees cooler.

The workspace on either side of your stove seems small -- 18" is not much. Worried that such a large focal point might overwhelm that wall. Could you swap sink and stove walls? Put stove where you currently have 48" window and put windows on either side of hood/stove to still get natural light.

With the frig against a wall, make sure that you are configuring it so that you get full door swing, i.e. pull it out or know that the door may not open fully.

Will you have landing space beside the frig? Either utilize micro drawer or put on shelf above that counter area.

As far as seating -- I think you have to decide for your family as to whether it would work for you to either have peninsula seating in the kitchen and a table in the dining room or tables in the kitchen and dining room. I don't see how you can fit peninsula seating and table and chairs/bench in the current kitchen layout.

Good luck with your plan and I hope you get some more feedback.

I don't have anything practical to add - this is a fairy tale layout in the hopes of inspiring more brains! Don't faint.

What this layout attempts to address (and perhaps poorly) is traffic flow and lack of character (of the room, not your decorating). I ate into the garage about 4 feet.

{{gwi:2105434}}

Bmore, WOW!!!! I love it. That's my dream kitchen! I've got nothing nearly so interesting to offer.

Cosmocat, I tried to do a 3D of your layout and another with the refrigerator moved closer to the sink (but further from the range). Both layouts have some problems which can perhaps be addressed by others more talented than I. Neither works with a cooktop and wall ovens.

Your layout

Layout moving fridge

Thank you thank you thank YOU!!!!!

I am printing these out and going into the kitchen to dream!

Only question...what about entry into the laundry room for bmore? Had fun reading the other day...and now your 'name' makes sense!

Bmore's table with your original urge to move the mudroom door.

The laundry room has been incorporated into the kitchen, wall removed. Old kitchen window is new slider.

Ahhh, thanks...stressful day.

Ahh, bmore I love it, but I need a large laundry. I don't put many clothes in the dryer, many are hung on a rack and I can't see walking around those. Sadly, the lotto numbers drawn last night were not ours...so moving that many walls and that much structural change/venting change would damage an already thin budget, but I still love it!

Celtcmoon, like that too. The flow of traffic through the kitchen and the fact I could not get it to work before made me not want to move the door....but maybe I'll look at that a bit more closely now!

Granted, I keep coming back to one of my first ideas. Very similar to cheri127's plan! thanks. Love being able to see it in 3D. Also very similar to:
Holligator post on May 16 at this link by OP akaaren, similar to akaaren layout as well
SimilarLayout

Almost identical to margieb, but all of those pics aren't available anymore
Similar as well to njkitchen2010
njkitchenSimilarLayout

I'm back to reviewing a plan similar to celticmoon, just not sure about the DW on the laundry wall.

Otherwise would this work as final or do I need more tweeking? Laundry room on the top and eating area on the bottom, deck to the left and dining room there on the left. Pantry isn't shown, but the walk-in going in some garage space.

In general, I like it. I think a couple of tweaks, though, would make it even better...

• Could you move the Laundry Room door to the right 6"? That would give you a 24" cabinet b/w the range & the Laundry Room and a 12" cabinet b/w the corner susan & range. I know when I'm carrying laundry to our LR my arms are often full w/elbows sticking out so I'd be afraid of bumping pan handles on the range or knocking something that's on the 21" counter onto the range or even exposing my elbows or flammable clothing to the cooking heat or flames (if gas).

  You could then have a 12", single-bin trash pullout to the left of the range or a 12" tray/cutting board cabinet or a 12" drawer base.

What happened to the 24" cabinet to the right of the sink? I think that's an important 3" you eliminated...I would rather see you add 3" to 6" to that side since it will be your primary prep area (b/c of the location b/w the range and sink).
I would consider moving the sink & DW to the left 15" and either putting that 15" cabinet to the right of the sink as a trash pullout or merging it with the 21" to create a 36" cabinet. That would give you a nice 48" area to prep in (36" + 12" from corner susan).
The last two changes above would then give you a view out the window for both prepping and cleaning up...90% of the time spent in the kitchen (70% + 20%)!

Note: I don't think you'll be able to reach the far left upper cabinets over the peninsula. At most, I think you can reach another foot over from the corner. So, that cabinet will have to end about 12" before the end of the wall giving you a 48" cabinet (or else have a cabinet in that last 12" for aesthetic value but never use it OR only use it for very, very rarely used items).

OK, how about something like this:

Oh, and I like CelticMoon's & Bmorepanic's ideas as well...each is very different and each has its own charm. One of the things I like is that neither have seating on a working aisle (if there's seating on a working aisle, you then need at least 54" or more for an aisle, preferably 60", with recommended overhangs, more if you skimp on overhang).

Thanks buehl!

The Laundry Room door can definitely be moved to the right 6 inches but that is about it (there is a central vac and vent in the corner). I was thinking it would be nice to have that 12" cabinet to the left of the range for trays, etc. Or to ease my symmetry issues, an 18 inch on both sides. And a drawer for spices.

The cabinet to the right of the sink we were thinking would be a trash pullout. IÂm have issues with symmetry and need it, so IÂd like the sink centered in front of the window. Though IÂve considered moving the window either way which gives me some play there.

To the left of the sink, the DW and then I wanted space to the left of the DW to be able to reach the upper cabinets. I donÂt know if I really have room for the cabinets under the breakfast bar because my kitchen table needs to sit somewhere. If I keep those breakfast bar cabs, then I will do the bench seating along the FamR wall with the window cutout. Or I can buy a bench for seating and move the table over.

IÂve considered putting the sink and DW on the peninsula which would give me the whole window wall for prep. But I donÂt think there is enough room, or utilizing the DW might get dicey and then the DW wouldnÂt be near any cabinets.

I agree with those upper cabs, that is why IÂm hoping to have space to the left of the DW. Or a cabinet that comes down to the counter.

All of my zones overlapÂis this ok? Is it OK to have the baking/prep zone along the peninsula? Roll out cookies with kiddos, have the mixer and baking goods in that area?

• Zones...It's actually normal to at least have the Prep & Cooking Zones overlap since both tend to overlap task & time-wise. As to overlapping with the Cleanup Zone, it's not ideal but when you have only one sink it's inevitable unless you have an island right across from the sink and/or range (although, if there's no prep sink in that island, you would still probably end up prepping near the sink!). In this situation, you want to be sure you have:

• Overall, room for someone to work at the sink for cleanup, work at the counter and at the sink for prep, and someone to work at the range for cooking.

• Plenty of counter space for prep. You need enough counter space so dirty dishes and prep don't interfere with each other...room for not only chopping, etc., but also for having ingredients and tools on the counter with you.

• Plenty of floor space b/w the sink and range. This is so there's enough floor space for at least two people to stand/work...in your case, three people b/c of the close proximity to the range (which is why I was trying to get more room there by moving the sink & DW).

Plenty of room for dirty dishes outside the Prep Zone. In this case, you want dirty dishes in the sink and to the left. I don't know about you, but even with a big sink, we often have dirty dishes pile up on the counter, especially on weekend nights b/c no one has time to do the breakfast dishes b/f school & work or after school or work right away, so things pile up.
Corner & Dishes...I know everyone is different, but we had the situation w/the DW right next to the lazy susan and dishes stored above it and off to the side in our old kitchen. We never had any trouble standing in that 12" space b/w the DW and corner to unload & put away dishes, glasses, flatware, pots & pans (in lazy susan), and Tupperware. All were stored in that corner above the DW, in the corner, and around the corner. However, you may be different.

My DH (who does most of the cleanup) misses the corner! He says it was so nice having everything right there in a tight space...no walking to other points in the kitchen...even though dish storage is still right above the DW in our new kitchen! The pots & pans, though are across the aisle and the Tupperware & glasses are on the other side of the sink.
Symmetry...

• Range...the cabinets are symmetrical both on the top and bottom...24" on each side on the bottom and 21" upper cabs. If you prefer "door" & "drawer" symmetry (i.e., all doors or all drawers), then consider getting roll out tray shelves (ROTS) w/2 doors in the 24" cabinet to the right of the range...it will match the 12" door of the corner susan & 12" door of the tray cabinet.

Over the sink, there's a 24" cabinet to the right and a 48" cabinet (24" + 24") to the left...symmetrical and balanced.
You might even consider glass doors on the far left 24" cabinet to add to this, especially if it's down to the counter (will reduce the "bulky" look)

If you do...

Oh, you might consider a corner sink. On the 87" peninsula run:

48" for sink (may only be 42", depending on sink size)
15" cabinet
24" DW
----
87"

You get the best of both worlds...view when prepping, view when cleaning up, lots of prep space, and a better use of that dreaded corner space. The only negative is that you may not have room for two people at the sink at one time...I'd shout out to those w/corner sinks to ask. You could add a prep sink....maybe next to the other corner.

Found pics of margieb's kitchen which has a very similar layout - see link below.

However, I don't have the same amount of space on the refrigerator wall. However, back to the dear DR and that stupid vent. I could move the fridge over and butt into the DR, place the MW and counter-top to the left of the fridge, Entrance to pantry, another cabinet or two to the wall. Maybe a small desk or bookshelf and small pantry for cereals, etc.

then the DR, so it doesn't have funky corners, make a recessed area for a buffet and on the other side create dead space to match the fridge cut-out. Make sense?

Looking into the corner sinks....

Here is a link that might be useful: Margie's Kitchen Link

I could move the fridge over and butt into the DR, place the MW and counter-top to the left of the fridge, ... then the DR, so it doesn't have funky corners, make a recessed area for a buffet... to match the fridge cut-out. Make sense?

Those bits certainly makes sense to me, since that's exactly what I did in that island plan. So, that DR wall vent? Is it just low or does it go up through the wall?

I really like Buehl's layout (except the idea for the corner sink), especially if you get rid of the extra peninsula cabinets and add space between the DW and corner. We had the same 12" space in the corner and, though it worked, I was eager to get rid of it. (It really was nice though to take almost no steps to put dishes away)! We had cabinets under the overhang at our old beach house and I HATED them. The island was too wide and it was a huge PITA to move the stools out of the way to access the cabs. I stored things there that I rarely used and usually forgot I had them at all.

The vent in the DR is near the floor and we assume it is to take the heating upstairs and goes through the wall all the way up. When (and if) I find a contractor I can cut a whole in the wall.

So some of you would like to see:
* More space to the right of sink to allow for more prep area (currently I have a 21 or 24" cab plus the 36" lazy susan)
* Less space to the left of sink, DW 24" + 15" cab + 36" lazy susan" (move the 15" to the right of the sink? My thoughts: I think I need that space to the left of the DW to access the lazy susan and upper cabs
* Lose the eating area cabs
* Now what about the fridge/MW wall?

Thanks again for all the input! Getting close!

If I can't butt into the DR, the two doors (laundry door and pantry door) will they look awful right next to each other? should I put the pantry door in the middle of the fridge wall?

Can I do something similar to margieb's layout and have the room for zones, etc.?

The two adjacent doors look fine. If you put the pantry door in the middle of the fridge wall you won't have a landing space next to the fridge, which would be terrible considering how far it is from other counter space and you'll effectively narrow the laundry room doorway (not ideal for getting laundry baskets in and out). It will also remove the MW from the fridge area as well as obstruct the laundry room doorway when the MW is in use (not the end of the world by why do it if it's avoidable.)

You can probably have a layout very similar to Margieb's if you can recess the fridge into the DR. If that's not possible, you could still squeeze in a small island without seating like hers. However, I don't think she has enough space between the cooktop and the sink and then there's miles of counter outside the prep area, which in my mind is under utilized unless you bake a lot.

Once again, amazing work from the forum team...I was without a clue to offer when this post first started and there are now such wonderful layout ideas. Cosmocat, you are on your way to a great kitchen!

There is so much to read, I can't say that I've waded through it all. This is a small detail, but looking at your last plan, I see that you're trying to use every last inch to the garage/pantry doorway by reducing the cabinets next to the fridge and are trying to fill further by putting in some kind of angled cabinet. But I (personal opinion maybe of no value) think that those are kind of worthless and reduces the value of the other cabinet you had to make smaller, too. You will actually crowd the doorway this way. I would just put as large a cabinet as will reasonably fit next to the fridge and let the run stop a bit short of extending to the doorway. Just put the largest usable full cabinet you can and quit. As I said, not much in relation to what others have done for you here, and just a personal preference.

If you try to put an island in your kitchen, be very careful that you:
Do not make it a "barrier" island; i.e., locating the island such that it comes b/w the sink & refrigerator, sink & range, or range & refrigerator. Even small islands can become a pain if you have to go 'round & 'round them.
Have sufficient aisle widths around the island...in particular, the aisle b/w the island and refrigerator b/c you will be carrying armloads/baskets full of laundry & you will need adequate room as well as b/c it will be a major thoroughfare from the Garage to the rest of the house.

To have more than a 2'x2' island, you will most likely have to eliminate the peninsula and associated seating...but you will not be able to have seating at the island b/c your kitchen isn't wide enough. If you recessed into the DR and did not put anything there, you might be able to have a seat or two on that end of the island, but you'd have to work it up to see b/c you'll still have the refrigerator in front of the laundry room & will need to have sufficient aisle at that point.

It's nice to look at other people's kitchens and say, "I want that", but unless you know that your kitchen has similar dimensions & access points (i.e., doors & windows), you may or may not be able to do it.

I didn't see a floor plan w/dimensions on the site you linked for Margie's kitchen (although I did not dig around to find it), so until I see the dimensions, etc. for her kitchen, I cannot tell you whether you can do it...no one can.

I really like Cheri27's option with the island just because I have an aversion to peninsula's (long story). What if you made the island a bit longer, but somehow curved the end to taper it on the breakfast table end? You could add one to two more stools I think. Something like this:

If my calculations are correct, you have 32 inches between the DR corner and the third stool when someone is sitting there. You could also eliminate that stool and put cabinets under that curve. That would still give you three stools. The island is 30" and the walkways are 42".

How deep is your garage? Can you post a plan showing the entire garage with dimensions?

Buehl's right. Even if you recess the fridge, the room is still only 11 ft wide there, not enough for island seating and made worse by the fridge door when open. Margieb's kitchen looks so similar to yours but I wouldn't be surprised if it were at least a foot wider.

Wow! Thanks to all of you for the eye-opening views, thoughts and great ideas to make this kitchen functional as well as beautiful! Getting close. Below are some pantry thoughts, different places to put the pantry door. I could always just use pantry cabinets and save that $$.

Plus: Garage dimensions. DH would be very upset if he lost too much space in there, but it is almost too much space and things donÂt have a good home. That is another area in need of some serious purging.

Buehl: Good points, that is why IÂm not looking into an island right now, and why I had mine as it is, it is a barrier and I run circles around it all day long. I donÂt have margieb dimensions, but placement looks good. I can see where knowing how much space is really there would be helpful. IÂve tried to find pics of other kitchens that have the same general layout in regards to windows, entry points, etc. like you pointed out.

Houseful & Cheri127: like the island idea, but I think it would be too small and the seating that I want would be in the way, and IÂm not keen on the fridge there, but I do like the pantry wall cabinets. I truly appreciate all the work you have both put in and that you are following along still. Wonderful people!

Rhome: good point. Lots and lots of infoÂwhich is what surprises me that everyone is following along as easily as they are and providing so many helpful thoughts. The MW is going next to the fridge, so it may need a bigger home. I donÂt want things to be crowded, or have it feel like an afterthought.

Pantry1: thinking I donÂt like the upper cabinets between the pantry door (glass panes) and laundry door. But I like the lower cabs, maybe a bulletin board with calendar, etc.

Pantry2: places the MW right next to the kitchen entry from the laundry

Pantry3: I see the crowding that rhome pointed out. Plus it doesnÂt show the MW home there, but that is where the MW would live, rather than under counter elsewhere in the kitchen.

In regards to margiebÂs kitchen, I like the island, but IÂm not planning on adding that at this time. It is more of a general layout comparison.

Garage: is huge, measurements are NOT exact, but close. There is definitely room to steal.

Sorry Cosmocat, but I don't like any of the three plans above. #2 and 3 can be ruled out straight away because there's no landing next to the fridge and in this kitchen, that just won't work. Option #1 looks crowded and imbalanced to me (they all look crowded, IMO). I think it looks funny with the cabinet facing the way it does and you have much more to gain by moving the laundry room door to the right and getting a bigger cabinet and counter next to the range. Your kitchen is a good size so you don't need to crowd things so close together to get lots of storage and a functioning layout, so why do it? How about a recessed message center in that wall instead, like the one Buehl has?

cheri127, thanks yet again...you hit on some of my issues with each idea.
It feels like I have room, but when people start talking about zones and overlap, I don't feel like I have quite enough. I definitely don't want to crowd.

The pantry door I want is one of those etched glass doors that says PANTRY, pretty.

Pantry1: just not sure about the two doors right next to each other, I do like the message center idea. Have to find a pic of buehl's.
Pantry2: no go
Pantry3: nix the long pantry like storage next to the fridge and make room for a cabinet MW and landing space below. more or less like pantry1

Moving the laundry door, I really only have about 6 inches, and that space could definitely go towards a larger cab to the right of the range.

Buehl's panty has one of those doors. I'm not sure if her kitchen is in the FKB but you should try to get a look at it.

I think for the most part your zones are fine. When you have only one sink, your prep and clean up will overlap but you have plenty of room to the left of the sink so dirty dishes can pile up there (unless you're like me and leave a dish rack out at all times....very bad habit!). Where you could really use more space is between your sink and range but there are many who cook great meals with less prep space than that. If you could enlarge the window so you can shift the sink without losing symmetry, that would be ideal. The same with moving the laundry room door to the right. It doesn't seem like much, but 6" is a lot when it comes to cabinets and counters. However, this all becomes of matter of cost/benefit ratio. I'm assuming you're not workiing with an unlimited budget so you"ll probably have to let cost be your guide.

The huge counter space you have to the left of the sink and on the peninsula looks wonderful on paper but really it will probably not be as useful as you think. You don't need that much clean up space, you can't really prep there, you certainly won't cook there, but it takes up lots of real estate in your kitchen. So, if it were my kitchen, I'd consider making the window bigger to shift the sink to the left a high priority. I'm speaking from experience. I had no choice but to have a 48" peninsula to the right of my sink (range is to the left) and it's a wasteland in a small kitchen. Great for setting up buffets but how often do I do that, and for collecting junk, never a good thing!

Your garage is huge!!!! If you really can manage to build a pantry in that space, I think you'll be very happy. Much better than stealing from the dining room.

Wow, your garage is big! I figured if you were taking that much for the pantry, you may as well go all the way and build a "mud room" entry, like this:

Now you can move the laundry room door like you originally wanted. The pantry door is right next to the frig.

Now if I said I like houseful's plan with the island. where is the MW? What if...the walk in pantry actually becomes tall pantry cabinets and a desk, no wall, just open up that space - still utilizing space in the garage. From the eating area layout would consist of: fridge, mw?, dw?, sink, dw?, turn corner, range. All the appliances are on that L. Maybe a prep sink on the island. Any island seating would be out of a working zone.
Back and forth...

Wow! I see what you mean about a huge garage! I wish mine were 31' deep, I could easily add a Mudroom, which I lust after! (mine is only 23'x23' and I'm going to try to steal 5' form half of it...our van & car will just fit!)

Anyway, my kitchen isn't in the FKB, but it is in the "In-Progress" list of kitchens (see the link on the right side of the FKB).

Here's my Message Center Niche, though. Note, that the pantry wall I recessed it into is approx 8" deep, not 4-1/2" like most interior walls. However, you could make the wall deeper or bump it out into the Laundry Room very easily. The interior is approx 7-1/4" deep (about 3/4" of the 8" deep wall is for the plywood + drywall back of the niche). The outlets (phone & electrical) are inside the pantry on the other side of the niche wall. I have 2 sets of outlets + phone jack. The phone/answering machine & cell phone charger are plugged into the outlets. We drilled a hole in the back wall behind the phone and fed the power cords & phone cable through it. There's no message board, but we use stickies (you can see some in the calendar frame pocket) and either stick them on the calendar or the wall around the niche....or the oven glass overnight b/c that's what everyone notices in the morning!

I get a lot of compliments on it (as well as the kitchen--despite the lack of glass in the cabinet doors & no backsplash yet).

Message Center:

Design:

Pantry door (24", but it comes wider...btw, they also have "Laundry" doors!):

Link below for brochure for interior doors. Scroll down to page 17 and you'll see quite a few doors like my pantry door...Pantry, Laundry, Office, etc. I have no complaints about my door...it operates smoothly and all the hardware it came with (handles, hinges, etc. in brushed nickel) is very nice.

Here is a link that might be useful: Feather River Doors, Interior Door Brochure

I love the large laundry room in Houseful's plan but the kitchen takes you right back to where you started with your first plan; the main path in an out of the house goes right through the work triangle. The space between the fridge and range will be your main work space yet it's the smallest. Also working in that corner with the tall fridge wouldn't feel good to me. If you try to prep across the aisle, next to the sink, you are somewhat in the way of the entrance.

All of this is not to say that you can't reconfigure the whole mudroom/laundry room/pantry space. I just wouldn't do it at the expense of a well functioning kitchen.

The layout by houseful is the one posted
Sun, Jan 31, 10 at 10:18

And cheri127's idea, last pic, posted
Wed, Jan 27, 10 at 11:36

Problem is I see what I like but don't know how to fit it all in. And I need to work with what I have and within a decent budget.

Thanks again.

A couple of things...and this is personal preference...I would not want my family & friends (or my children's friends) going through the Laundry Room to enter/exit the house. I sort laundry into piles on the floor b/c I have so many different colors, etc. (reds/purples, blacks/dark gray, blues, greens, yellows/tans, grays, whites/warm water, whites/cold water/delicates, bleachables, microfiber towels). The last thing I want others to see is my dirty clothes or even some clean clothes! So, for me, I would want separate Mudroom and Laundry Room entrances.

If you moved the Refrigerator down & recessed it into the DR and put the Mudroom door lower in the kitchen, it would not only separate the Laundry & Mudroom but also (1) keep that traffic out of the main work area and (2) give you a less-roundabout entry. If you could put the Mudroom door below the Refrigerator, even better, but I don't think you can b/c of the DR.

The Laundry Room would still be there, but it doesn't get used nearly as much and, besides, the cooktop is somewhat protected, and that's where the protection is most needed.

These changes might also allow you to add a prep sink on the range side...it would have to be worked up to see if there's room. If so, it would give you a nice division of zones...Cleanup & Entertaining (peninsula) on one side, Prep & Cooking on the other.

Oh, I thought you meant the one from Jan. 31 17:59. I like Housefuls plan with the island, but I'm not sure you could really fit 4 stools. Since you only need seating for 3, that shouldn't be a problem. You have well defined zones, ie. great prep space that's independent of clean up and a protected cook zone You also have the option to do a wall of pantry cabs like Mahlgold has or some kind of pretty hutch type arrangement like you have in one of your inspiration pictures. And you can still build the large storage area in the garage and access it from the kitchen.

Buehl, if I remember correctly, it was you who talked me out of putting a washer and dryer in my mudroom addition off the kitchen. I"m a messy laundress, for sure. Another good reason not to move the laundry room door to the other side of the kitchen, Cosmocat, as then you really will walk thru it.

Try making a list of what it is about each layout you really like and don't like and see if you can determine what the least painful compromises for you would be. I like the openness of the U but it would be too much walking for me. The island layout is less spacious, but I like the compactness of it and the aesthetic possibilities. What's most important to you?

Okay, one more idea. I had a terrible time getting island shape just right, but you should have at least 42 inches from all angles of the island to any obstruction. What I really wanted to draw was a stool on either end with wider ends and then one in the curve. Ignore the extra cabinetry in the garage.

Bmore: want to try another fairytale dream layout keeping the laundry room where it is but using some of that garage space? My DD is doing a report on colonial Maryland and IÂm learning lots of stuff I never knew about Maryland and Baltimore!

In lieu of taking advantage of any more superb advice, I think IÂm getting close. Though if you have something to offer, I always willing to look!

OkayÂgetting close folks!

Option 1: Island Layout
Pros: compact, all appliances together, zone flow, allows prep on island, allows for desk
Cons: compact
Layout from fridge: 36" fridge, 24" cab (dw below and mw above), 36" sink cab, 24" cab (maybe move dw here), 36" corner susan, 18" cab, Aga Legacy Range 36", 18" cab, 30" doorway to laundry, message center niche like buehl, turn corner, door to pantry, desk
Potential: move door to laundry further from range 6"
?Âs: island prep sink?
Similar to housefulÂs Sun Jan 31, 10 at 10:18 pic, just 3 stools not 4

Option 2:Peninsula Layout
Pros: larger floor space, breakfast bar seating, less crowding
Cons: impede on eating area, fridge and MW are further away, no desk
Layout to left of sink (when looking at sink): 24" dw cab, 12-18" drawer/cab, 36" corner susan, peninsula cabs
Layout toright of sink (when looking at sink): 24" cab for trash/recycle, 36" corner susan, 18" drawer/cab, 36" range, 18" cab, 30" doorway to laundry, message center niche, turn corner door to pantry, 12" cab, 24" MW cab, 36" fridge
Keep in mind this layout pic doesnÂt let me do fancier stuff so the peninsula isn't really as long as it should be, so consider cheri127Âs layout Wed, Jan 27, 10 at 11:36, first pic, Or buehlÂs layout Fri, Jan 29, 10 at 2:10, just to right of sink is 24" instead of 36" and to left of sink is 24" dw and a 12-18" drawer/cab then the susan. And no breakfast bar cabs.

Potential to move window right or left, however this may be a last resort as exterior is brick.
Potential to move laundry door to right, 6"
Walk-in pantry may potentially allow those cabinets butting up against the pantry wall to be recessed back slightly and out of traffic flow.

Thoughts: will be sure if fridge is in corner that door can swing. Need landing space by fridge, MW.
No corner sink, donÂt think it really works.
I really think IÂve moved away from the laundry door moving, mainly so everyone and their kids arenÂt walking through the piles of clean and dirty laundry.

Thank you thank you all for helping to make this process more fun and a learning experience.

Thanks houseful....was working on this post and noticed you just posted...I'm liking that!

Oh my, after that long winded nonsense, I see houseful's idea. Like it! Maybe a door from the DR right in front of those pantry cabs. hmmmmmmm

We're all about the calverts and the crabs.

I like houseful's except for the island. It shows a great solution for the mudroom-laundry room. You'd get a big improvement in work surface around the range and still be able to enlarge the kitchen windows. And it isolates the rest of the kitchen from blow-thru of opening doors. The rest of this is nit-pickin.

The island tho... The walkway to/from the garage and laundry has got to be pretty heavily used and the aisle is pretty narrow at that corner of the dining room. The shape of the seating side causes an issue. When people sit around an inwards facing arc, there needs to be a lot of room per person because their chairs back up into the same physical space.

You could do something like a 30" by 42" work table in that corner, but they don't typically have seating. The ones with the butcher block tops are darned nice to look at and work on tho.

It's tempting to move (or add another) dining room entrance just to get an additional path and a vista of something as you enter from the garage.

You could stick a counter height table on the dining room wall opposite the ref with one or two seats on both sides. If you're doing cookies or something large scale, you could hijack the space. A variation if you feel ok about slightly industrial, is a H base stainless work table about 36" by 48" on casters. Park it on the wall for everyday use and roll over near the sink and cooking surface for large scale projects.

Along Bmore's line of thinking, why not attached an island permanently to that corner. You have over 4 feet for walkways and a walkway through the dining room so I can't imagine it will get too crowded. Kids will take the path of least resistance which will be through the DR. As much as I don't like walking through one room to get to another like that, your DR is so long that it might feel more like a hallway. And you can put a pocket door on the DR to hide any mess during formal dinners.

guess I need to decide on a contractor and decide if some of things can actually be done. If..big if...I could get rid of that DR corner or make it column of sorts...would that help?

Wow! I don't think I obsessed this much over my own kitchen, LOL! Have another idea for you here. The island stool still allows for a 3 foot clearance when someone is seated. I only put it there for when maybe you just have one person that may want to help with prep or just chat. And, I don't really know the best way to design the desk pantry area, especially where they meet in the corner.

You could close off the laundry room door and put a new door way in the middle of the oven wall in your existing layout (your current kitchen). This could lead to a mudroom to be built in the garage space as well as the existing laundry room which can now double as a storage room (not so much a pantry but good for the other stuff you said in your first thread that you waned to store in the dining room pantry...christmas decor etc). Now you have the option for a big U-shaped kitchen with plenty of counter, cabinet and work space. Sort of like Houseful's layout above without the island or desk alcove. You wouldn't have to move much in the way of plumbing and it wouldn't be terribly expensive to just build the walls and install flooring in the space you're stealing from the garage. Of course, your cabinet and counter top budget will go up but that's the downside of a large kitchen :).

The two layouts you posted with the pros and cons really won't work as drawn for the reasons you already stated. But, the island may be able to be angled to accommodate the third seat and still leave space to get by (I'd have to draw it be sure). The large cabinet in the corner of the peninsula in the second plan can be removed to keep the peninsula seating from interfering so much with the table seating, in other words, just shorten the sink run.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate all the work you have all put into this. I do like houseful's idea. I just don't want to walk through too many door, rooms to get to the laundry, but I like the use of the additional space. Makes it seem like a worthwhile reno instead of just replacing what I have.

The above two options are in the running as well as this last one by houseful w/out the table by the pantry. I am printing them out to review with hubby and a contractor, to see which is really the best use of space and cost effective. Don't want to blow the budget!

Another one. This one doesn't borrow as much from the garage for a mudroom entrance. It borrows even less for the frig wall and makes a niche in the garage for a tool bench or cabinets. You can't see it in the layout, but I added a window over the mudroom bench right in line with the doorway to the kitchen. You would have to be mindful of the view into the laundry from the kitchen.

could I fit a sink and or DW on the island?

You can't fit a sink if you want seating too. DW would fit, but do you want to turn around from the sink to use it?

Played around last night while in front of the TV...something like this work? I couldn't find my graph paper. This is using some of the DR space (not as much as before) and the addition into the garage. i'd like to put the sink in the island - or a prep sink. I'm just having issues with the small run of cabinets along the outer wall and crowding the clean-up area and prep zone. Here the fridge would go best nearest the eating area, taking away more space from the sink, but I like the feel of it close for kids, and not stuck in a corner at the other end of the kitchen - not that it won't fit there.
thoughts?

I thought you couldn't take out that corner of the DR wall because it was load bearing and there's duct work there. If you really can steal 4 ft from the DR, that changes everything. I wouldn't do such an exotic island (by the way, it still looks like it'll only seat 2 and the aisle by the fridge looks tight). though, but that's just me. I like things very simple. Since you're basically changing the whole size and shape of the room, why don't you start over with a new thread and layout to get some fresh ideas?

Don't forget that many of these changes are expensive and your cabinet and counter costs are increasing dramatically. Have you met with any more GC's for a ball park figure? In my neighborhood, this would be in excess of $100K. We almost fainted when we got our estimates and had to scale back considerably which was costly in architect's fees and added another year to the design time.

You can download graph paper for free....Google "graph paper". Just generate the size you want and print!