Yep...and so is Miele.
Bought the Miele dishwasher.
You couldn't pay me ot buy the subzero fridge. Every single person I know who has one (a lot of people) is not happy at some point. If anything needs to be fixed it costs a fortune. You might want to check other brands for very similar products. I bought a Kitchenaid fridge (42" side by side) that looks exactly like the Sub Zero - and at half the price.

I responded to your post on the Appliances Forum.

Technically not price fixed - dealers can charge MORE THAN the UMRP set by the manufacturer but they can't charge less.

I'll counter Mel's criticism and say that I've had a floor model Subzero that I got in 1988.... yes, that's not a typo. It's still going strong and has only had two or three minor problems in almost 22 years. One of which was a new door handle if that gives you any idea of how hard it was used!

4 sons .... all teenagers at the same time... it "grew" with us from shortly after the third was born til the last is now in college. ....... anyway it has had a hard life and so not only does it operate as it should quietly and without a problem, but I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't find a similar aged fridge of another brand that still looks as good on the interior. The drawers, wire racks, shelving, interior trim..... it all looks and operates like a nearly new machine.

When we build next year, I'll be swallowing hard, but definitely going with subzero again.

A lot of manufacturers do this, as we found out when we were buying our Electrolux appliances. What my dealer did do is sell me my JennAir Refridgerator, Bosch Hood, and GE Monogram beverage center at what appeared to be lower than cost to make the overall package competitive with a non Electrolux quote I had from another dealer. If you are not buy other items that may be difficult then.

A friend of mine just bought $10K worth of Thermador appliances at a very good price from a local small dealer. They charged full price for everything (line itemed out), but then had a big Discount -$X000 on the bottom, giving him a decent price. The big box stores weren't able to do that for him.

We have a Sub and Wolf on order. I checked three different places for price and they were all the same. However, our appliance guy gave us two free Bosch Dishwashers and a free Dryer because he wasn't able to discount the Wolf and Sub items on our order. We also are going through a smaller dealer and they are able to do things to offset the 'fixed price'.

The house we bought has a 1977 Sub that is still completely working and has had no major problems and it has outlasted our 10 yr old KA ( IMHO POS I would never buy another KA)in our condo. My MIL has had nothing but Subs for 20 yrs and swears by them, so does my mother. That was enough convincing for us to get a Sub!

I have pricing for some models saved if you need it!

The repair record for SubZero reflects the fact that people repair them. A client of mine got a large scratch on the front of a new Kenmore refrigerator and a new door was half the price of a new fridge, so she bought another new one and moved the scratched one to another location. If the fridge is $1200 and the repair is $500, people are going to think twice about repairing. If the fridge is $7000 and the repair is $500, its a different story.

Palimpsest, I'm sorry, not sure what you are trying to say here. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Should I spend 7X the price for an appliance just so it makes sense to repair it when it WILL break the same as something that cost 7X less? I would assume they are less prone to break if I am paying that money up front, but your post is very ambiguous.

Another Sub Zero lover here. We did a kitchen makeover in 1990.
In 20 years, our 36" over/under fridge has had 4 repairs-twice for
the ice maker, and twice for the defrost timer.

The first time the ice maker failed, we paid through the nose
because it was a weekend and we were desperate. So, we pulled
a repair shop out of the phone book. The second time, we called
our local Sub Zero distributor (on Long Island), Goldman, who has
their own repair force. The repair was made quickly, for a fair price.

When the defrost timer failed, Goldman told us it was an east DIY
job, and that we could pick up the part from them. My DH went
to the store, got the part, and was given complete instructions on
what to do. Just $20.22 for the part, and 15 minutes of hubby's
time, and the fridge was good as new. The second time, this past
October, he knew what to do...made the call, was told the part was
in stock, got in the car...

Why buy Sub Zero? Dual processors...if freezer fails, fridge not
affected, and vica versa. Power failure? Subs are the best insulated
fridges on the market. Keep the door closed, and the food will
survive for at least 24 hours. This happened to us 3x...no power
for 16, 18 and 26 hours. When the power returned, we had no
spoilage what so ever. Our friends w/other brands, had to throw out
and replace everything. OH, and there's the terrific customer service.

We are building a new house this year. The new, redesigned 36"
over/under Sub Zero was the first thing we knew was a definite for
the kitchen.

Btw, Mel, the 42" KA side by side is nothing like the Sub Zero side by
side. The Subs have better guts, and hold way more food.

I figured I should respond again as I have been a bit slammed in this post.

You truly could not pay me to buy a sub zero based on the info that I have. Everyone I know who bought one within the last 5-7 years has had problems. And big ones at that. They all say that they would never have bought it if they had known (I'm talking like 10 people here, not 2).

I agree that the old ones are still going strong. My MIL has an ancient one that has never needed a repair. She bought a new one for a vacation home. Had major issues within the first year, made a humungous stink and was able to send it back and bought something else - no problems at all.

Why should you ever have to spend $600 on a repair for a $7000 fridge- that's ridiculous. I had a mid level KA for 12 years that never needed a single repair. It's just a box to make cold - not much should go wrong.

btw - the fridge is the same on the KA 42" and sub zero. I checked extensively in a showroom as they were side by side (pun intended). The freezer however is not as big in the KA, I agree, and I don't love how much it holds. I do have a second freezer in the laundry room, so i't's not such a big deal. But looking at the cost versus the actual product you get...

Melinrk,

I don't think people meant to slam you, and I'm very sorry that you're feeling bombarded. I'm pretty sure that they're just eager to present their own experiences and love. It's very good to hear your input from the other side.

Something to be aware of is that during the time period you mention SubZero had an acknowledged problem with some parts, I think in the compressor system, that led to really bad problems that annoyed a lot of people. SubZero has been up front about these problems, and made good on them, and fixed their supply stream, but it seems to have left a very sour taste with the owners in question.

I too have had SubZero love but didn't like the new models as much, and couldn't make the sizes work for me, so ended up with Miele. There are alternatives.

But there is a difference in function between KA and the high end fridges. There's more to it than just get cold. I still have my Kenmore from grad school (awaiting the finishing of my kitchen). It has moved 3 times and the food doesn't spoil. It's out of balance, however, the light hasn't worked for 15 years and I did try to get it fixed (unfixable), and things on the top shelf freeze, and the crisper drawers are useless. But, having not replaced it until now, it's free. And it gets cold. It even makes ice (in trays).

No one would keep a SubZero for 15 years with no light. They'd stamp and scream until someone figured out how to fix it. That's what Palimpsest was referring to.

If it doesn't matter to you whether the drawers are cooled at a different temperature, if the fridge senses the temperature change that opening puts out and supercools so that your groceries aren't constantly getting warmer and cooler, etc., etc., you don't need a $7000 fridge. And if your fridge does all these amazing things, it might need to be fixed a couple of times in 20 years.

There's something out there for everybody.

If you look at Consumer's Report (or at least the last time I looked) some of the repair frequency data for Sub Zero reflects that they are repaired "more frequently" than many lesser priced refrigerators. This data is partly skewed by the fact that people *do repair them rather than just getting a new one. So a lower price fridge that conks out may have a better repair record simply because it was never repaired, the HO just cut to the chase and got a new one. CR also seems to like to bash luxury brands anyway,,,and give high ratings to the cheapest 3-cycle dishwasher they can find, for example.

Why do people repair SubZeros? High initial investment is one. The other is that they are built in: what is the likelihood of being able to fit another manufacturer's fridge exactly in that spot? Its cheaper to pay $300 for a new fan or even a couple thousand for a new compressor than it is new cabinets.

I only have direct experience with 4 SubZeros: Two went for 20-30 years no problem. Mine needed a new fan for the fridge part after a couple years (a couple hundred bucks) and another friend's needed a new compressor when it was over ten years old. So really, most people would replace a regular 10 year old fridge anyway.

I am actually a little ambivalent about S-Z. I love mine, but when the time comes to buy a new one, its the only one that fits in the spot, so I am tied to buying another one... at whatever the current $6000 one costs in the future...perhaps the lack of choice in my future options is what scares me a little bit.

In my next house, space considerations are not such an issue and I may be able to tuck in a convenional fridge quite well and not have to spend thousands for a built in. Like I said, the commitment to a built in probably makes me ambivalent.

Mel-three people countering your blatant statement with their positive
experiences is hardly what I'd call 'slamming.'

There was a recent thread here, which I didn't save, on the KA side by
sides. In it, numerous people wrote about how disappointed they were
with the capacity of the units. If I recall correctly, there were noise
issues, too. Never heard those complaints applied to Sub Zero.

At any rate, enjoy your KAs. May they serve you well.

Thankfully, the choices in the world of appliances, are many and varied.
No one has to settle...

I would rather pay $6000 up front knowing the Sub would last for 20+ years then buy two $3000 fridges that would have to be replaced in 10.

I know you don't always get what you pay for, but I strongly believe you do with this product.

"what is the likelihood of being able to fit another manufacturer's fridge exactly in that spot"

VERY LIKELY - most built ins are typically 35 1/2" x 84" so a 36" model from sub zero will fit a Kitchen Aid opening or a Thermador or a GE Monogram.

I should have mentioned that I have the 700 series which is 27" wide. :) But its good to know with the more common sizes you do have options.