That's a marriage counseling issue, not a renovation issue. It's not about the renovation at all. It's about the balance of control in the relationship that isn't a partnership but a power struggle. The kitchen renovation is just bringing the issue to the forefront. I'm totally serious when I say to seek counseling. ASAP. It's not just about surviving the next six months of tradesmen in your home either.

Boops, I completely understand your situation. When we first began discussion of a kitchen reno, dh said 'just tell me what you want, and I'll do it' (we are diy). As we got closer though, he had plenty of ideas! We now have no walls or ceiling for the same electric upgrades you are talking about. I have to admit, even though I didn't want him to do all new drywall/ceiling it really is for the best in our situation. Just keep talking and listening, let him know what aspects are really important to you, and let him know you value his opinions as well. I live a 70's built neighborhood, so I have many friends who have gone through kitchen renovations. Do you get in arguments about it? Yes. But you will survive it and you'll have a great kitchen to enjoy together when it's finished!

I'd let him handle the technical aspects as long as you get the decor ones since he seems very good at diy. Then each has his own specialty and no one needs to step on each others' toes.
I got my way with a lot of our reno, but then again, I did almost all of the research and legwork. He had a definite opinion on the counters, but the rest of the way, he liked my vision and would tell me to choose when I would present him with choices. I actually purposely tried to keep him involved so he would feel like he is getting what he wants and hoped that would help on the stressful days.
The funny part is he got livid when I chose to offset our masterbath faucet to the side "corner" of our oval sink. I did it to protect counterspace and to not have the faucet get in the way of the medicine cab opening. It was one of the few things I did not run by him and he hated it. Now, I bet he never thinks about it or cares.
He also hated that I mounted our tv "too low" on the wall in the master. I did not want a long cord issue so thought I had struck the right balance....
You will definitely have disagreements along the way, and with the stress of the reno, they will be louder and more intense than if you were not so stressed. In hindsight, they will seem way overblown.
I was hurt he did not assume I was doing my best to accommodate both of us, and he thought I somehow was messing up and not giving him say on what matters to him. I had asked for his opinion so often and he rarely cared, so making some on the spot decisions did not seem risky. All the other small ones worked out just fine. I tried to explain that unless he wanted to be home or on the other end of the phone all day, he would need to let me figure out the stuff that was needed along the way. Whenever possible, we'd discuss it in advance, but some decisions were unexpected to us. I think it finally got through to him that I was not trying to screw him with the choices, but was just seeing things differently and had to guess what he'd like. He is a teacher, so I could not always bother him for every little detail during the school day. I worked from home during the reno, so was the one they came to ask about details.

If you are DIY's and he is doing a lot of the heavy/technical work, then perhaps he is looking to control that aspect of it. Your opinions on layout, functionality should be paramount, especially if you are the primary cook in the house.
As others have said, a serious and respectful conversation regarding the project goals are in order. It should be a partnership, employing the best of both of your input and strengths in different areas of the renovation.

I am thankful that my DH has pretty much left the planning and executing of our project to me and the professionals who will be carrying out the work. I do need a glass of wine now and then, though...

The GW community is a great place to come for advice, vent, question and most of all support. I am fairly new here and have benefited greatly from the wisdom found here...Good luck and hope we can all help somewhat as you move along with the project.

With the kitchen, I finally told my DH to SHUT UP and get out of my way.

But we've been married 31 years and have been doing major DIY for at least 20 years. I do as much of the hard work as he does, though I don't do plumbing and he does not do painting.

Seriously, you do need to have a heart to heart and get an understanding of what is really important to who. DH had to realize just how important the kitchen was to me, since every other room in the house I was pretty easy going about. Once he got around to understanding how much my heart was in the kitchen, he gave up fighting with me over things that he didn't actually care all that much about, but was just use to getting things his way.

On my part, I have agreed NOT to bombard him with "what do you think about this idea?" Part of it is a male/female thing. When a woman asks "what should I do?" she is asking for ideas and will consider them. When a man hears "what should I do" he thinks you want him to tell you what to do, and when he tells you and you do something else, he's thinking "why did you ask me anyway?"

DH has said more than once "why do you ask me if you aren't going to do what I tell you anyway?" and it's been work to come to the understanding that while I value his input, I'm not actually asking for directions. I found even if he really didn't care one bit, he thought I was asking for direction, and that he NEEDED to make the decision for me, instead of saying what he really felt, which was "I will like either choice equally, so I'll go with what I think is going to be cheapest or fastest."

One of my older sisters came close to divorce in building a home. Every single decision was joint and agonized over. 20 years later they both agree they got too emotionally involved in even minor choices. None of with where life changing.

A younger sister, when she built her house, she and her spouse sat down and decided what was more important to who, and divided up the duties and pretty much stuck with it. But for both of them, it was a house and neither felt super strongly about it.

It sounds like you wanted to spruce up the kitchen and your husband wanted to rebuild it, LOL. He may have a point with updating the wiring, etc. Are you worried that it won't get finished? Do you have the funds to hire someone to do the work if DH drags it out for too long (or gets in over his abilities)? Hopefully, you can have a discussion and write out a plan that you both agree on.

My husband will argue for months about something, but when it comes down to final decision, he'll always let me make the call. So now I don't bother arguing, I just do what I want. Of course, he's not doing any of the physical labor, so that makes it much easier!

Wow. I had no idea my little rant would elicit such strong opinions.Thank You all for the helpful advice. I agree a conversation should take place. Spouse and i employ different styles of communication and the stress doesnt make it easier to be clear.
Still, Im looking forward to the beautiful and functional kitchen that come out of this. When I get my floor plan finalized I will let you wonderful people take a gander at it and help me create My Perfect Kitchen.Thanks again.

Some years ago I posted an idea that I wish I had inaugurated at the very beginning--the notebook. A strong spiral notebook with a bright color cover. It would record decisions and both of us would sign off on them and if there was a 3rd party like a designer, that person also.

It could also contain pasted-in plans, sketches on the back of envelopes, wiring diagrams from the appliance mfg, inspiration photos, phone numbers, contact names, etc.

My biggest reason was to eliminate the arguments--DH thinks that talking about something is the same as shaking hands in agreement. I'd come home and find something done and yet it had only been one of about 6 options we'd talked about and I thought the discussion was still ongoing. The notebook would force me to finish thinking about something and DH to listen better and not misunderstand.

Oh my my my ... another wonderful tangential getting-to-know-you thread. Which is fitting because as has been pointed out, no way is this question about renovation.

Here's what we did: and it didn't really work great, or maybe it did; dunno.

We started years ago, interviewed and hired architects - spent a ton of money, hated what he did and what we wound up with. We were both stupid rabbits in headlights, unable to tell this dear, sweet soul to *Stop* - it's horrible! Also, not a renovation problem, a social/communications problem.

Eventually, we were forced out of town and circumstances aligned to make a major re-do of the house happen. From our last experience with too many cooks, among other problems, and because I was overwhelmed with life, I bowed out, pretty much entirely, from the proceedings. Let dh and a neighbor-architect and others go to town. When he showed me stuff I smiled and said "that's nice".

Upon return the kitchen needed doing and no one was doing it. I was desperate and finally got to work planning, finding my way here, etc etc. DH has pretty much stayed out, but not always. On occasional issues he's weighed in, strongly. Sort of by definition such weigh-ins were about stuff I cared about too so there was conflict. In all instances, I think, I eventually talked myself into paying attention and moving toward him on those contentious issues. I slammed about and tantrumed and pouted but did it in all cases, I believe (I'm sure his version of this would be 100% opposite). I will also add that in all instances, I believe, I think the resulting compromise was far better than my original plan, and essentially -- though I would never tell him so -- he was right. [don't ask me why; I just won't. Bad wife issues.]

So essentially -- it was a forced division of labor, long-term with many false starts and stops and much mistakes along the way. Just about the only kernel or wisdom or generality in here I think is that even though often I had to remind myself of this "manually", the recognition of and respect for his not-completely-bankrupt view of building, mattered. Most of the doing and planning and decisions were mine. But when there was rank disagreement, I ducked below but with negotiations. And I think the shared "editing" came out better. That came was a conscious push though. [sorry, having trouble articulating this].

Anyway, your relationship with your partner is utterly personal and unique. Maybe look to other arenas where you've worked out some functional partnership and figure out what you're doing that's working and try to reflect that setup over here.

Because unless you're really wanting to split up -- and maybe you are -- but if not then all this fussing around about material stuff just doesn't matter after all. It's just a communication and negotiation issue. Don't let it be a surrogate for emotional communications. Or if you do, at least recognize that's what's going on and tread consciously.

I'll make it simple for you and him.

The man takes care of the OUTSIDE of the house.
The woman takes care of the INSIDE.

Told to me by an old timer in the business years ago. Good advice, I think.

I was just thinking you should tell him to stick to cutting the grass. LOL

My husband isn't allowed to touch my John Deere.

When I first saw full-on remodel w/taking off all plasterboard walls AND ceiling, I was thinking OMG, everything that isn't up to current code will need to be redone if they do that. Then I read that the point was to update.

While I agree with the foregoing about communication vs. renovation issues, on this one I'll weigh in with a small he was right. Small. But if the wiring does need updating, the time to do it is before you install your beautiful new kitchen. And one of the most important things for the function of a new kitchen is good lighting. Maybe the two of you can sit down together and make a lighting plan. Besides the recessed lights, you're probably going to want undercabinet lights, task lights, and accent lights, and a bunch of different switches to control them all. Plus, you might want to think about additional switch locations, three way circuits, etc. If you're changing your layout, make sure you have that nailed down, and the lights optimally located in the plan, before anything gets ripped open.

Bit of relationship advice: Rather than fighting over control, fight for communication. If you start with a yes, honey, you're right, but we need to figure this out first, and we need to work on it together, he might hear you better.

Pick your battles.

Never go to bed angry.

Bee's advice, is the best one of the thread, it is true! No matter what happens in our daily lives, that good night kiss and "I love you" is all that matters. Houses, kitchens, stuff doesn't mean much if you don't have each other...

"Pick your battles" definitely the most important advice so far!

I would also ad to try to keep an open mind - updating wiring and lighting really is a good idea.

And if possible, try to present your ideas in a way that makes it seem like your husband thought of it. That little trick has saved me a lot of grief over the years.

Florantha-
That notebook sounds like a wonderful tool for keeping track of what was decided in a complex project.

No signatures ... didn't happen.

I have just the opposite. DH doesn't care at all what I do. He just says that he trusts me and do what I want. He hasn't even looked at the kitchen plans. The only thing he cared about was the granite and getting chilled water on tap. So what does that say about us?

while it was stressful to do my kitchen remodel on my own (single) this thread makes realize being single and making all the decisions is not so bad! :)

My wife and I devised a system when we were planning the wedding and it has held us in good stead through 7 years of pretty continual renos on an old house. (I know, 7 years is not that long, but it's worked well)
If we see that we have differing opinions, we try to express a 'care factor' from 1 - 10. So for something that we really care about, its a 9 or 10, for something that's not, 1-2 and all the way in between. What we find is that it eliminates 3/4 of the discussions because one person or the other realizes that it is a much bigger deal to the other person and lets it go. We then focus on the issues that really matter and didn't exhaust ouselves on trivialities.

i agree with beekeeperswife too. Life is way to short. My moms advice to me ALWAYS is pray!!! It really works! When you put God as the center of your life/your marriage, things seem to fall into place:)

Lots of great thoughts in this thread.

I have learned that if I choose to research and get invested, I can come to care passionately about all sorts of fundamentally unimportant things (potential GW motto, minus "unimportant"?). So I deliberately pick some areas not to care too much about.

Hi Boops2012,

You are not alone. A renovation is HUGE stress.
The chaos is enormous as you are both doing this yourself.
You might feel like hitting him over the head with
a frying pan but instead walk up to him and tell him
you just want to hug. No talking just a warm hug that
speaks volumes.

After 23 years of marriage I can honestly say what
gets me through tough life's twists is humor and hugs.
Hoping you and your dh find a balance of what works and
sharing the control of your shared kitchen reno.

~boxerpups

Dh and I work well together on projects like this, BUT...the clutter, tight spaces, lost shoes, and general chaos of our living condition makes me short fused at times and not easy to live with. That's where our tensions show up. Just trying to chill, settle in for the long haul and enjoy listening to the wind rustling through our house as we too have dry wall, ceiling tiles and associated insulation gone for a bit.

Hang in there!

Lots of wine is the traditional GW prescription for a reno project.

It works especially well if you're a mean drunk.

I love the 'care factor', Tom.

Marcolo, you are an 11 on the hysterically-funny scale.

marcolo,
I LOVE YOUR humor!!!!!
~boxer

Marriage is a lot of give and take. And so is renovation I have found. And as previous posters said "pick your battles". My DH felt so strongly about getting hand-scraped hardwood floors even though I though they ate up too much of the budget. And he was adamant about not wanting modern looking cabinets. So I just said, fine, but I get to pick the granite and backsplash.

Wine helps...our liquor budget has increased since beginning our remodel. :)

If its something you don't care about all that much, don't argue about it. Be selective in what you push for, based on your priorities. Sometimes it is helpful to post an issue on GW and get feedback from this panel, but just remember the opinions might not always lean your way.

Good Luck!

Wording is important.

"What should I do" means what should I do?
"What's your opinion" means tell me what you think.

Look at your words, too. Don't assume someone can read your mind, see your vision, or should know what you want. Be clear and have pictures or examples. It can really help.

and get your kitchen up to code! Electrical usage is 100% more demanding than when many of our homes were built. Even to the point of putting quad outlets in vs. the dual ones. It's shocking how much easier this makes your kitchen.

Good luck!

Babushka....I was starting to think I was the only single girl around here. Oh and i'm a cat lover too :)

Maybe put a little Valium in his morning coffee? He needs a chill pill. But, then again, :) so do you. So take one right along with him. Electrical and plumbing are far more important than the fancy clothes that the kitchen will wear. You take care of the guts of the room by updating it and getting a great workable layout first. Be sure that you've done that before you worry about which of the 3012 shades of white paint samples that you have spread out over the dining room table is "the one".

It all gets stressful and you end up sniping at each other without even thinking about it. So, deep breaths and chill pills in the a.m. while you discuss the issues that have arisen and the scheduling nightmare you are in. Then out for the day fresh and ready to handle the challenges to come. When the day's work is over, uncork a bottle and drink a glass or two in the evening together. Do NOT talk about the reno at night. That's an early a.m. subject after you've slept on whatever the previous day's disasters were. Everything looks better after a night of sleep. Learn that mantra and apply it. Never make emotional decisions without sleeping on it first.

yeah total remodel - we rock, and so do our cats!!! :)
our challenges are different:

-overwhelmed by making ALL the decisions
-GC not lovin' taking direction from a girl
-girl learning to say firmly to GC: "no that is not acceptable, needs to be redone"
-only 1 person to fund the reno

they each have their challenges...

Heck with that, total_remodel!
I'm single with 4 cats, 1 dog, and 2 foster Pugs.

To add to that, babushka_cat.. getting to make your home exactly as you dream it
not coming home to find someone drank all your wine just because there isn't any tequila
buying furniture and things your size (5'3") and not having to accommodate anyone else (like a 6'5" stbx!)
learning to honor your own BS detector -- and I don't mean "back splash"
learning quality, learning safety, learning to enjoy
learning what compromises you're willing to make with yourself to get what you want.

And of course, learning not to whack the condescending look off the Plumber's face, who is humoring you as you explain the motion sensor faucet you want installed in your bathroom marble vanity, along with regular faucets so your cats can have water without driving you nuts to go turn it on. Then their eyes widen when you pull the faucet out of the box...

Yes. I'm serious. And I'm paying you or someone else to install it right and the way I want it done. You choose if you want the job or not. The nut-case cat lady wants it? She's getting it.

No trouble communicating here. And no question about who is in charge. hear me roar

I honestly think the person down the road will eventually be able to move into his/her new home.
It was started 7yrs ago.
It's looked like a house from the outside now for about 5yrs.
Nobody lives there. It's not finished inside.
The inside lights are always on when I drive by at night.
Every now and then I see a guy working thru one of the windows.
Been told, The owner just can't keep a contractor for more than a couple months.
I guess all those contractors are just insane.

another single with a cat here.

Christine - Not sure what stbx is but I like 6'5'' usually

STBX is an acronym from the early, 1980's internet when we paid by the kb transmission.

Soon to be Ex. In my case, Someday to be ex.

6'5" can be nice, but not if it's 6'5" of cheatin' lyin' GC who bailed on yet another job, screwing the homeowner with no heat, electricity, minimum plumbing, holes in the ceiling and holes where the windows would go. Oh, and $643000.00's worth of debt. Yup. Me. The Homeowner-ess going it alone.

oooo. My inner voice got away from me.

I'm still trying to figure out why the ceiling has to come down to install cans...

I think its a good idea to take down the wallboard and see what is behind there, and update the wiring. You might find things that you were glad to get fixed.

If you've got a textured ceiling, and are removing soffits, the mess left on the ceiling will look awful: we ended up replacing sheetrock, wiring, plumbing and the ceiling . . . hadn't originally intended to have cans, but once it was obvious the ceiling needed to be replaced, it provided the ideal excuse. Not to mention, now I have a smooooooth ceiling.

Unfortunately, what looks initially like a simple renovation can end up being a serious remodel, because it's essential to get the services right and safe and updated (ours were 55 years old).

Babuska....so agree about having to make all the decisions but in the end I must admit I love not having to compromise with anyone else

LOL CEFreeman....my plumber gave me that look about the air switch......"you have too much time on your hands" were his actual words. Guess who got a new plumber haha. Now I gotta go look into getting my cat her own faucet becasue you have made me want one!

Total_remodel,
I've had my faucet since 2006, when we bought all our fixtures after a fire. Thank GOD a million times we did, because I sure couldn't afford them now.

I've been paying a female-owned granite company for almost a year for Emperador Dark marble for my MB(ath)R. I have saved enough $$ to have it installed now. The vanities stood under a tarp in my driveway for a year, then have spent the last 18 months in the MBR(oom). I am SO excited I get to have all these things installed.

My Waylon (my Ragdoll boy) makes me crazy about water, even going nuts to get my glass of water on the table. His own faucet will be so cool! The others don't care.

Tell me what an air switch is? And I wonder if he has any idea how small things to him can cost him a job?

I'm wondering how long it'll be before we're all covering up our pot lights and putting in flush lighting again, or track lighting again. I love my clean ceiling cans give me. No visual clutter.

my plumber gave me that look about the air switch......"you have too much time on your hands" were his actual words. Guess who got a new plumber haha.

I guess he has more time on his hands now! ;-)