Hi SG - I haven't yet read anything that has been posted today but in your post you sound really frustrated. When I get to that point, especially when it pertains to people or things I have no control over, I try to remember:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

All we can do in life, whether it be in person or on a public forum, is to offer up our best advice, suggestions, expertise, etc., and then leave it up to the person to do with it what they want. Hope you change your mind - your posts have been interesting and informative.

I guess you're making the right choice then.

"Complete stupidity", to me, is when somebody thinks they are always right.

As far as what I've seen you post lately, I am sure you won't be missed.

SG has offered some of the soundest advice on many topics here, from behavior to dealing with vets.

I'm sorry you're frustrated, SG. It's really hard to help someone when they don't really want to hear that they're wrong about something.

Would it make you feel any better to know that Nunyette hasn't pooped in the house in 2 weeks, mostly because of advice you and others offered?

I do have to ask for your advice for one more thing. It's about dealing with vets. I think about you and your frustrations often, when I am feeling rushed. Literally what goes through my mind is "What would SG think about how I treated this client?" LOL! So you are the perfect choice to help me with my latest project- giving clients a written explanation of their pet's visit. If you are interested and have some time, I would REALLY appreciate your input.

I hope you don't stay away for good.

Many people read the discussions on this forum, but only a small percentage post.

I am sure that there are people who do take your advice, even if it's not the person who posted the question here.

You can't help everyone or save every dog from problems. Take a break, if you want to, or keep on participating here.
Either way, I wish you well.

Well, I am sometimes right also---but have found a lot of people cannot/will not recognize that. Their loss, not mine. I am not losing any money or sleep if they don't.

I have never met anyone who is ALWAYS right. I guess there is always a first for everything, but, if you are leaving, I won't get that opportunity.

I think it may be my fault actually, posting before thinking. Please don't go I will honestly try to change for the better.

I find this post very disturbing. I think someone who really believes they are always right and has the nerve to post that is in real need of a reality check.

I went back and read alot of your posts. Most seem very angry, antagonistic and incredibly arrogant. Someone who thinks they know more than their vet in 18 different situations with 18 different vets needs help.

You posted once about "stupid humans" in another post and I chose to ignore it since it was directed at me. I figured fine, she's leaving let her go. Obviously, you did not leave, you're still here, this time, I choose not to ignore it. Get yourself some help, you need medication!

You are not always right! I am! :-)

You can't take stuff on these forums too seriously. These people are anonymous and they may not like what have to say, so what. You give your opinion and you move on. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Take a break if you need, but after awhile you will miss us and be back.

SG, I have been wondering if you are o.k lately. You have seemed so frustrated and angry in your posts. Before I took my extended break from this forum, your advice was much more patient - hoping you are O.K!

If it helps any - I asked about Coda having an inverted vulva because you told me to ask - and she does have one, I never would've known otherwise! You have definitely helped us and our fur babies. You have possibly saved coda a life time of infections and stones. So while you can't reach some people on here, you have definitely reached others!

I would not trust someone who insists they are "always right" and be inclined to seek others' opinions just because of the incredible arrogance of that statement. Perhaps that's why some have not heeded your advice. It does seem that something is going on with you--and not with those who have failed to respond to you.

I'm agreeable with Marita40 and Linda above. This thread is a marvel of arrogance or conceit or ego on behalf of the OP. Please don't enable or validate any further the OP's high opinion of themself by making excuses for the behavior of others etc.

"IM ALWAYS RIGHT" means your a right fighter, unwilling to see that people may just not be educated in canine behavior and training. So Spiritual Gardener are you stupid and ignorant because you dont know how to send a rocket into outer space? Can you see that people are posting because they are searching for answers in order to better the lives of themselves and their pets?
Please add some gray to your black and white thinking it will make your life better and people will be able to get your wealth of information and be able to utilize it.
I know you come from an abusive home and your life has been touched to your very cellular spiritual core with that abuse. I also know you have done alot of work to try and break the circle of abuse and you need to be commended for that.
One other thing I know without question that this web site is important to you and you ARE a valuable asset to teaching people how to have an easier life with their dogs.
The facts are there are more than one way to train a dog ans they are ALL CORRECT, there is NO ONE WAY to train a dog. So in that you are not always right, but if you need to believe that so be it. I suggest a positive reinforcement counselor to help you understand that ther is more than one way to teach a dog to do something and that as long as a person has asked that means they are willing. The fact that people are not educated about owning a dog does not make them stupid, it makes them willing to change to better their lives it is not a personal affront to you spiritual gardener. People may not get what you are saying right away because they dont have a basic understanding of dog training. Walk through life more gently my friend, treat yourself, your dogs, your friends, the people who post here, the owners and dogs you help better the lives of more gently my friend. Compassion, compassion, compassion understanding and a willingness to treat people who come for help with respect. Dont let the ripple effect of your past abuse impact your passions of today or the future.
I may be wrong, but I think what you have to say as far as training dogs is valuable, if you can get past demeaning people and personalizing your comments everyone (including you) will be much happier for it. You are a valuable asset to this board and everywhere else in your life. But people will not be able to hear your message if you treat them as your abusers have treated you. Demeaning others is a way for those using negativity to impact others so they will feel poorly, the abuser or deameaner feels poorly about himself in some way and will often treat others badly because he does not want to feel bad any longer. There are other ways to get across your valuable information I suggest you use your grey matter to add some gray to the black and white thinking which has helped you survive your abuse and works wonders for dog training. Unfortunately it is not always to best way to treat others and it is more of a turn off and its impact puts people in a place of feeling instead of being able to hear your message. SG - I have often been put off by your harsh treatment of others especially when what you have to say is valuable. Find a way to share your knowledge without cutting others down, I think you will find you DO CARE (even though you have stated you dont care what others think, if that were the case you would not have come back here to this board - you would have carried out your threat and stayed away) I think the opposite is true you care deeply and it frustrates you that people are not taking your passion as seriously as you do. I dont think you are a bad person, I dont think you have an overblown ego. I think you have struggled and fought a very hard fight and you just have not realized yet that you can put that fighting away. You have won over your abusers you are successful and a valuable person. I see that and I see that others here on this board see that. This right now right here is a huge opportunity for you. We are giving you a bone, you do with it what you will. You can either bury the bone in the backyard and not come back here and walk away enveloped in your IM RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG mantra or you can take that bone and make the best of it, by learning another way to work with people having a more positive attitude towards yourself and others. I know you can do it, after all you are a fighter, but it is not an easy path to take after all the things your abusers have ingrained in you must feel like they are a part of your very being but I know you can retrain yourself with positive reinforcement and some guidance from someone who can help you with how you see and interact with the world. My hope is that you maintain your passions and share with us your understandings. I feel for you. I wish the the best no matter what path you choose. Good luck my friend.

WOW--when I first read the original post, I assumed it was meant in jest, but judging from the replies, it clearly is not. It's been awhile since I posted in this forum, so I am surely missing much of the history behind this thread. Though I don't "know" you as a person or even as a poster (beyond this post), advice from me may be unwelcome, but here goes anyway.

1. Accept the fact that there may be other approaches that, though they differ significantly from yours, may be just as effective or possibly even more effective at reaching the results. Context matters a lot in dog training, and its impossible for you to know all there is to know about the specific context of every post requesting advice. It is, therefore, impossible for you to always be right.

2. Consider what you know about changing the behavior of dogs and apply it when you attempt to change the behavior of humans. The same basic principles of behavior modification apply in both situations. The cornerstone of behavior modification is reinforcement. Perhaps if you attempted to come across in your posts as reinforcing of the attempts a poster has made, you'll get them to listen to you more. I'm sure that you would never consider a dog stupid or ignorant because he did not change his behavior the first--or even tenth--time you tried. Why would you consider humans stupid or ignorant for not following your advice the first--or even tenth--time you gave it?

I teach at a university and have colleagues with PhDs in animal behavior, including one who specializes in canine behavior and is very well known for his work. Despite knowing more than almost every human on the planet about canine behavior, I could never in a million years imagine him claiming that he is "always right." My own PhD, while not in animal behavior, included substantial background in behavior modification. I've also competed successfully with my dogs in obedience. Still, I am always open to learning about different approaches, and I'm sure I could learn from your experiences, just as you could learn from mine.

Confidence in your knowledge and experience is a good thing. Too much confidence, however, is quite dangerous. You might want to step back and re-examine your post and consider how it came across to others.

I thought the comment in the OP was meant in jest as well.

Anyone who REALLY thinks they are ALWAYS right, is as ignorant as those they are railing against.

I find many of SG posts helpful, but some of them have been downright rude. There is more than one way to present information, and lately SG's posts have had more vinegar than honey. She probably does need a break.

PS - each situation or training issue you encounter should be assessed so that the training methods you have are "THE BEST" for those clients and those people. "The BEST" and "ALWAYS RIGHT" are "NOT ALWAYS" synonymous. I have read some of your postings in which you recommend that the owners do not let the dog out of their sight 24/7. When you say things like this it may be impossible for the owners to accomplish this suggestion and as a result the information to spend more time interacting with the pet falls on deaf ears and is disregarded. Blanket black and white statements are often shrugged off, where as suggestions and detailed time frames (with room for adjustments) are easier to follow. Again, good luck with the path you choose

I'm new here..well,I was here way back when this place started and then left. When it comes to pets there is only one thing that is certain. Not everything works the same for everyone. It's that simple.It's true with kids,dogs,cats,you name it. If feeding blueberries to your dog makes him run in circles,it's a given it's not going to do the same thing with the dog next door. How can pet owners become so full of themselves that this simple fact gets lost somewhere?Another given is one which occurs in forum life and if any of you have been posting at the Garden Web for any length of time,say 5 years or more, you will agree. When someone announces in a grandiose thread that he or she is leaving..they always come back. They need that recognition. It's the ones who just quietly stop posting who really do disappear.

Mwoods, you are so right, a post like this is just a scream for attention. And we are all wrong to be obliging.

See ya SG.

I completely agree with Mwoods. I have no doubt that SG is reading this entire thread. She hasn't left. This is just a dramatic cry for attention.

Just looking at a few of our profiles and some of us have been here a long long time. Remember way back when GW became a pay site.
At least back then you figured you were getting value for the abuse cause you paid for it, now any freeloader can dump on you. LOL

Cake anyone?

I'll take a piece, PKguy.
SG, I wish you the best. You are long-time poster and we do feel that we develop relationships with each other as we read our postings. I, too have noticed that you are frustrated. I said to DH last week, "Spiritual Gardener is not feeling too spiritual today." Indeed, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought it meant one of your furbabies had died, and that this explained your bad mood. I have learned from your wisdom and will miss you. When you are feeling better about THS, come on back, I will be watching for you.

Sometimes the artificial world of cyberspace gets to us and we just need a break to live in the real world for awhile!

Stay away from the computer for however long you need to refresh and recharge. As many have already said, your advice is appreciated and valued.

When someone announces in a grandiose thread that he or she is leaving..they always come back. They need that recognition. It's the ones who just quietly stop posting who really do disappear.

My thoughts exactly.

She's just looking for a great big hug-fest, for everyone to beg and plead, "no, don't go! We need you here, you're invaluable, you ARE always right!!" blah blah BLAH. She posts this looking to stir up some drama-- as far as I'm concerned, a poster does not have to be new to be a troll, and you know what they say about trolls...

Personally, I'm tired of the constant ranting about how all vets are worthless/negligent/etc.-- most of her responses to stuff I've posted have been less about helpful advice and more about an anti-vet rant.

So goodbye, good riddance. But I agree with some previous posters-- she's not gone, nor will she stay gone. She won't be able to miss all the attention she creates for herself.

Hey guys. A very real and understandable product of childhood abuse, especially severe childhood abuse is to act out in adulthood. Being addicted to gambling, drugs, alcohol, sex, and to have unmanageable anger is a very real and dibilitating result of being abused. SG had to fight very very hard just to hold onto a sense of self and although that worked great when younger to maintain safety and sanity it is not working so well now. I think SG deserves a break. You dont toss a dog away because of a behavioral problem, I think people deserve a chance to better themselves and to look at what is not working in their lives is one of the first steps. Something is going on in SG's life which is probably triggering this outburst of anger. We need to apply a bit of compassion and understanding not go third grade on this person who really has contributed a wealth of information to this forum. Like I wrote before I dont always agree with the delivery, but SG is passionate about dogs and training them and that is highly important and it is something that works and is controllable which is important to have in a life which may feel out of control. Lets try applying a bit of tenderness, compassion and understanding here people. It does not cost you anything to try to work things out and try to understand someone going through a rough time in their life.

Mazer, you are a very compassionate person. I commend you for that. However, this is not an abuse forum and is not a forum that is intented to deal with personal issues. This is a pet forum, and when people are coming here for help with their pet's problems, I do not think they should be attacked and belittled.

I know you mean well, but I just don't think SG should be defended solely based on her abuse issues. I just don't see the relationship. We all come from different backgrounds and have deep rooted issues.

That being said, you seem to understand SG very well and are apparently a good friend to her. Maybe you should email her privately about what is going on with her? Either way, she shouldn't bring her anger issues to this forum. Just my opinion.

gabro - I dont know SG, never met SG, and there is no contact information I can find on SG's personal page. The fact is that THIS POSTING has been replied to now over 20 times and parts of this posting relate to SG's valuable information about pets, which is what this forum is about. I am not defending anyone, I am posting information which might help people understand SG's behavior - nowhere have I defended SG's behavior - in fact I have already stated that I did not subscribe to such behavior. I also dont think that when someone is OBVIOUSLY having a bad time that maybe some more compassion might be applied. As far as anger or negative emotion being on the pet forum - I can site at least a half a dozen times other people (some regulars) have posted a reply or have written something and it has been as negative in tone or content than some of SG's. People are passionate about their animals and that brings out emotion. Bottom line - we are all human, and we could all use a break now and then.

Please calm down everyone. We should ALL remember that we use this site when we have questions or problems. People respond to our posts (hopefully). However, along with everything else if life, it is up to the poster to act on this advice or just digest it and try and work things out for themselves. Yes this can be frustrating for both parties, but as long as we have the right to do this, I see no wrong doing on anyones part.

I don't think anyone needs calming down as no-one is frantic, we're just discussing this odd behavior. Everyone is entitled to their opinion/reply whether it takes 20 responses or 100 to the original posting. You've had yours, I've had some, maybe someone else who's been away for a few days see's it for the first time and wants to chime in. These threads die their natural death as they always do eventually.

Mazer I commend you on your compassions but being an infrequent visitor it was not obvious to me that this person had issues going on nor would it have been to the vast majority of readers. All I saw was something akin to a grade school girl taking her dolls home because everyone here won't play her games and she's the only one who is smart. If that elicits 3rd grade responses from some people is to be expected. We can't expect those with "issues" to attach a disclaimer to each of their posts.
This isn't the first time this has happened. It's very frequent in these types of forums where someone is slightly "off" somehow and begins to offend the rest of the posters yet expects sympathy or understanding. Isn't going to happen.

Mazer,

I truly didn't mean any offense towards you in what I posted. If you took it that way, I apologize. I was just trying to say that we shouldn't be making excuses for someone's consistent abusive/angry/belittling/arrogant behavior towards others.

I just thought that when you relayed the information on her abusive history, you might've had her contact info since you knew a lot about her history (or that her email addy was on her profile page) - and I thought it would be better to address those issues off of the pet forum, since many of her 'friends' on here seemed to be worried about the tone in her recent posts. Just like another poster on here with "disabilities" (I think it's clear who I'm referring to), many of the posters seem to agree that she shouldn't be given a free ticket to say inappropriate things - so that's what I was saying about the abuse issue and SG.

I agree with a lot of what you say on your posts - I'm not trying to argue with you in any way. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

gabro - no offense taken in any way - we are good. The hard part about writing something down is that meaning - unless spefically written - must be implied. I got what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. But in no way have I made excuses, condoned or apoplogized for anyones bad behavior. My purpose on this forum is to help people. Most of the focus is usually on the pet, but most of the work and most of the problems have to do with the owner, not the pet :-) If someone here is having a hard time and needing to vent, it is not up to me to determine where that should be done. SG - has been abusive, in reading and remembering past posts I know Sg has been severly abused, and I know that abusive victims act out in adulthood. Those are facts, they are meant to educate not excuse behavior. Thats it nothing more. I dont attatch anything personal or emotional to the majority of my posts.
For pkguy - As adults I would think it would be up to each person visiting this forum to be able to determine if a posting or the contents of a posting is something they want to contribute to. I prefer to contribute what I know in the hopes of helping make the lives of pet owners and pet better. Not to lash out in just because the OP did. In my mind it is a waste of energy and not helpful to anyone. So disclaimers should be in your head and your intent. If a poster wants to respond in a third grade manner so be it. Im not here to dictate anything. I know what I know and I learn alot here - some from SG. It seems a shame that SG can not seperate emotional responses from logical responses - but like I wrote before SG is not the only one here who has replied or posted something that is dripping in emotion. I dont see where in any of SG's posting there is an expectation or pleas of sympathy or understanding. SG stated facts about how SG was feeling and to let us know because of those feelings SG is not coming back - period. There is no plea for understanding or sympathy. As far as my take on this, I dont ask you to apply sympathy or empathy to SG's issues - Im just put out there that maybe ther is another reason for SG's outburst and instead of acting in a third grade manner by kicking back and taking your ball home and refusing to play anymore that people step back for a second and consider that SG's outburst might be because of past abuse and not due to wanting attention or being spoiled or having an uncontrolled ego trip. Thats it nothing more.

This is a forum on pets and it should get back to that.

I don't know of any pets that can read or type, so really though the forum is about pets, its for people.

Whenever people interact there will inevitably be some differences of opinion... its our nature...

I've felt the same as you in some of the GW forums. I'll get so excited and answer a question that I actually do know and the poster throws it out he window. It's frustrating.

However - - there maybe that 'one person' who does benefit from your advise. Wouldn't that be a shame if you missed that opportunity because of a few bad apples?

(((hugs)))
Edna

Being frustrated and throwing a tantrum or belittling people are two different things. From what I gather here, it seems the OP has had a problem with delivery of her messages for some time. Its obviously not WHAT she says, but HOW she says it.

I have to say this despite the probable repercussions by some posters.

I think discussing a persons defect of character, disabilities or past occurrences is unacceptable. This is a public forum and it is widely read by many. None of us are perfect, we are human, and every person walking the face of this earth, that we share, has dignity. Show respect for your fellow man no matter what.

These disabilities or past occurrences would be not have been discussed if the OP hadn't already posted it on this very public forum.

This is a sad thread all the way around. I too will miss you and your love for animals, SG.

I'm an occasional visitor. I heartily agree with the posts here about no one person and method being always right. But, I do feel obligated to chip in and say right before we got our puppy this fall, I posted and got some truly excellent advice from this forum and in particular from SG (who really took the time to respond several times and give detailed advice), which we've followed pretty closely with excellent results. So for my part - sorry you're leaving - hope you take a break and come back mellower but still with good advice.