My My them boys are gettin a litte grumpy, I would like to see even a 2 year old project with that stuff on. John

Pressurepros,

Before you start spouting off about someone elses product you should take the time to find out what they are selling. Sealmaxx sealant is not a film forming product. It is an internal penetrating sealer. If you choose to use this product and you don't like the graying out from UV you must apply a stain. If you took the time to ask some questions your pea brain could have figured this out. Read the literature if you can read and you will see that they make no claims about UV protection. It is a protection from moisture penetration for 25 years. NO STAIN CAN CLAIM THIS!!! A derivation of this stuff has been used on concrete for over 35 years with the same benifits.

You don't know your head from your a@#hole!

Patrick

To readers: Is this a company you would buy from?

Thank you, Patrick.

pressurepros,

I tell every customer exactly what they can expect with every deck job. They know going into it that if they don't stain it will turn gray with 1 to 1.5 years. That is why I encourage them to use stain. Sealmaxx has a stain (Re-labled) and offers a seven year warranty and that is passed on to the customer. I stand behind the stain 100%. I have used all the top stains and this is the best I have seen for longevity and easy of application. If if fails within the seven year window due to evironmental causes I am back there reapplying.(They must keep the deck clean and I don't cover damage from dogs or funiture) I don't know of any other deck restoration company that can claim this! After the seven year period if they want to change to a different type of stain they can strip the stain just like they would with the stuff you sell with out worrying about removing the internal sealer.

I can't stand people putting down other people products with absolutely no knowledge of that said product. Do the research first!

You ask, "Would you buy from a company like this?".

I don't know about your customer service but I would hazard a guess that you don't offer 7 years of touch up maintance with your restoration packages.

Enough said!

Patrick

I offer tangible, repeatable and guaranteed results, Patrick. I don't sell fantasy. I'm not sure whom you are, but I would be willing to listen to what you have to say (if you are representing SealMax)

What I won't respond to is a hothead spouting insults. I have the experience and client list to back up my results. At the very least show us some pictures of five year old decks so we can see how good they look. These should be well within your time capsule of guarantee and should look almost new, correct?

just bought 7 gallons of TWP 100, enough to last for several years/restainings. He would not be so hot if you didn't hit a sore spot.

Hey Pat, I want to see a few of your projects that have been stained and then recoated with your stuff,say been out 3 years or so, warrenty on paper is one thing thats some pretty big talk, so show me the walk.No need to get personal over here unless thats the way you do business with the asss hole talk and all.You got a track record that spans 5 years or so with everything working the way you say it do,,lets see it. John

Jeffersonian, thank you for sharing this information with the readers of this board. When you are in a business long enough you begin to get a nose for sniffing out red flags. Here is the link to my original post. Once again,[it is]merely my opinion but as far as validation, I would say Jeffersonian's dealings certainly make evident Caveat Emptor!

Here is a link that might be useful: Original Post

Hey Ken,I wonder what ol Pat is doing right about now>>> probley bending an elbow on the third shot of sealmaxx,cant sell it may as well drink it!!!

Yeah, Pressurepro, when it comes right down to it SealMaxx could have power-washed my deck and sprayed it with distilled water and I'd be just as SOL if and when it crumbles away.

I have no idea if this product works or not as it's only been a few weeks since its application. But I do know that SealMaxx is so unsure of its long-term performance that they will not stand behind even the narrowest of definitions with regard to its ability to protect one's outdoor wooden structures. That says it all to me.

I'm not telling anyone to not use SealMaxx. I'm telling you not to get taken in by an evasive, dithering salesman like I did.

Jeff' I hope it doesn't end up looking like the picture I placed in my other posting re: 25 year sealers. You will have a helluva time getting it off.

Jeffersonian, would you be so kind to tell use what they charged you for this wonderful product that seals decks for 25 years? Total price & size of deck so we can figure what they charge per sq. ft.

Thank you very much, Al

PP - I hope you're right. My deck isn't huge, but it's well-made and cost a fair amount for the size that it is.

Deckman22, I'm figuring that I paid on the order of $10 a square foot to have this stuff put on/in.

Man,these guys are making some bucks,,I do econ pool decks complete including twp finish for that. John

You're not kidding John, those boys are ripping people at that rate, in my opinion anyway. I re-finsih decks with cabots or twp for 1.40 per ft. That would be 7 years worth of re-finishing with a quality product for what they charge for a one time application.

Al

PS. Thanks for the info Jeffersonian

Wow...lots of emotion on both sides of this discussion. Thought I'd give my two cents worth. A few observations for all parties...first, the guy in St. Louis is makes a good point...the warranty is vague, period. That doesn't make it a bad product...nor does it make the company doing the work a bad company...the warranty isn't too great, though.

Take the time to compare it with the warranty on the product you buy to do it yourself...or even the warranties on the products traditional deck service companies use. IN MOST CASES THEY OFFER NO WARRANTY AT ALL! If they offer any warranty you'll find lots and lots of fine print, disclaimers, etc.

So, ask yourself the question...would you prefer to use a product that you know will only last a couple of years, and your deck will continue to age (get worse). There is no warranty, or it's filled with disclaimers that keep you from getting any warranty service. Or, would you rather try a product that comes with enough confidence to offer 25 year warranty...although it is vague. It's your deck, it's your money, so use your best judgement.

Regarding the delay in getting the work done for a month, that's just plain bad business management. Delays happen...sometimes it rains, right?...but the professional company is on the phone with the customer taking care of the schedule. If the job was done late, and no communications took place, no excuse for that.

Next, all of the rhetoric regarding SealMaxx...I guess my first observation is that all of the pot shots are coming from folks that DON'T have access to SealMaxx. If the product works, it's definitely not good for them is it? I mean, don't they make their living selling products and services that only last 2 years...and if that changes it impacts their livelihood, right? So, they can't be too positive about it, can they?

That whole story about dipping flowers was kinda weird...who said SealMaxx coats anything? Coatings technology is what YOU'RE using to seal decks that only lasts 2 years...why would you assume that SealMaxx leaves the deck artificial looking? Looks like you need more facts.

Now, as to what the deck will look like in a few years. Well, we know what it's going to look like in a few years if you use TWP, CWF, etc, etc, etc...right? That's why you have to do it every 2 years, right?

The picture of the deck that was sealed with a "similar product" was a hoot! Wanna see some of my pictures of decks that were sealed "just a year ago" with the product technologies you're pushing?

Okay, so for some straight skinny on SealMaxx. First, it's not a coating, doesn't work from the surface AT ALL! It's a penetrant, goes into the wood. The action it provides is to increase the density of the wood to reduce water absorption. Does it work? Based on my research (pretty extensive)yes it does.

As long as the wood is there, SealMaxx is in it. Pressure washing doesn't wash it out, sanding doesn't get it out, etc. Now you're saying, "see, you can't undo it!" Why would you want to, it doesn't change the appearance of the wood, only protects it, retards fires, etc....why do you want it out?

It doesn't discolor the wood, doesn't provide any UV protection to the wood. It reduces the water penetration, reducing water related damage...rot, warping, mildew/mold, etc.

Since it's IN the wood, not on the wood the outside of the wood is still exposed to the elements. The wood will turn grey over time, (actually, it turns more of a silver with SealMaxx), UV will hit the outside of the wood...so IF you can identify the damage UV causes to wood (big if, try to document that one)...it will still occur.

Water related damage is significantly reduced. As a result, paints and stains applied over SealMaxx last much longer...this kinda common sense if you realize that water under the paint/stain isn't a problem anymore. Not sure you're background covers this one, look into Paint Sealer recommendations for an explanation.

So, let's cut through some of the rhetoric.

UV protection in stain/paint is not for the substrate (surface being stained or painted)! It's for the carrying agent (the paint/stain). UV kills paint and stain, so they add UV inhibitors to prolong the paint/stain life. Try to buy "clear" stain to keep your deck looking "natural", but don't discolor the wood. They're not there...they have to add tints/colorants to provide UV protection to the stain or paint...not the wood!

Is SealMaxx maintenance free? Nope. Nothing on the outside of your home is...sorry. However, you will see reduced maintenance from a SealMaxx treated deck since water related damage is reduced...that includes reduced cleaning requirements, reduced painting/staining requirements, reduced wood replacement requirements. Again...common sense.

It will peel or chip. Nope, not a coating. As long as the wood is there, SealMaxx is in it. The chipping/peeling products would be those that are applied by you guys that are throwing stones.

The realistic expectation on maintenance is that the wood will turn gray, if you don't like that you'll need to put a brightener on it annually...or stain. You'll need to plan to clean it, I'd recommend annually.

Now, regarding the implication that con men are out there conning people into buying a bogus product. I'm a SealMaxx dealer...I have been in the construction business for over 25 years...I've owned my own business for 4 years.

I'm a member of the Better Business Bureau, have been for 4 years without any complaints...I'm rated with the highest rating by Angie's List (if you're not familiar with that publication, you should check it out). Oh, by the way, I also sell and install a product that claims you'll never have to paint again! I have over 500 very happy customers with that product, and 2 unhappy ones...couldn't make them happy no matter what I did.

I run two offices in 2 different states, I employ over 24 people, and am concerned with them and their families. I fire sales people that make dishonest claims.

Today, I met with a customer of mine, we sealed his deck with SealMaxx in December...it was raining that day and the sealant washed off before it penetrated. We're re-sealing it tomorrow at no cost to him...he paid me to do the job, I'm going to give him what he paid for!

I'm pretty proud of my business, we work hard and take care of our customers...even if it costs us money. That's why they refer their neighbors to us.

On the other hand, I see lots of companies' work on decks that was awful...and a few that are good. I've seen decks they've worked on that I couldn't believe, the wood was ripped apart with pressure washing, stain/seal job was awful...so we fixed it for them. I don't assume that every guy that seals decks is going to do bad work, I tell my customers to compare prices, check references, and don't make full payment until they're happy with the work.

I use a product that comes with a 25 year warranty, and I offer 3 pages of references. If the customer is unhappy with the work, I take care of it. If I can't make them happy, I give their money back. In 4 years, I've given the money back to 2 customers...and if I'd gold plated their houses, they'd still be unhappy.

Before I took on SealMaxx, I checked them out very carefully...before you throw any more rocks, or spread more bad info, you should too.

Today, I looked at 20 year old cedar deck that had been faithfully sealed every 18-24 months. It looked awful. He asked me what it would cost to put SealMaxx on it and make it look nice again. I told him it was too late, he needed to rebuild the deck. For 20 years, he's been following the advice of the traditional guys like pressurepros...clean & seal every 2 years. Today, he's out all the money he spent to have that deck sealed and re-sealed, and will need to rebuild his deck to the tune of about $20,000...and you accuse us of ripping off customers?

Kevin, at least your response was less grounded in emotion than the first representative whom spoke out, Patrick. I don't doubt your ability or dedication as a businessman. In fact I admire your willingness to change an industry. I am very proactive to changing markets and would obviously adapt and use a product like yours if and WHEN it is proved valid. Until then, I call a spade a spade. Your arguement of my not having availability to the product is a weak retort. If you manufactured it next door to my office I still wouldn't buy it. I have done plenty of research on it. Everything I saw raised a red flag. But thanks for giving me the benefit of possibly having a brain in my head to make an educated decision.

I'll make a deal with you, I will fly out at my expense to see ONE deck that has had SealMaxx on it for 25 years. I will also pay for YOU to come out and see my work. Decks I have maintained for years. I'm sure John or Al would also invite you to view their work. My experience in wood working spans back to childhood working in my father's shop. I have a customer base of about a thousand people (I do more than deck restoration). I could confidently hand someone my database and let them call any name on it they chose for reference. With all due respect, Kevin, your customer list does not include a SINGLE customer to support your claims (one that has "the product" on it for 25,20,or 15 years)

Whether you choose to believe, or not, the picture posted came from a colleague and the product was either SealMaxx or a similar product with the same 25 year warranty. Regardless of the eloquence in your response, most people use their common sense and believe what they see, not what they are told. If you'd like, I will supply you with the name and phone number of the contractor so you can speak to him directly.

I am in daily contact with professional contractors all over the country. I am in tune with the marketplace. I am current on anything and everything involving wood care. You choose to discount what I have spent years developing, that is your choice. Once again I offer tangibles, what exactly are you offering?

I'll end it at this.. You present your smoke and mirrors... you are right... it's up to the customer. You say people should choose your rhetoric and claims over realistic waranties offered by companies that have been in business for longer than either of us has been alive. Okay, if that's the best you can come up with, we will leave the foolishness of the statement to it's own demise.

For what it's worth.. Having been in the service trade for 17 years, I have NEVER had to give a customer his money back.

Thanks for your reasoned response, Kevin. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not particularly impressed by the attempt to explain away the issue of warranty. I'm aware that most sealants that are purchased at Home Depot and applied by homeowners either do not have warranties or only have the flimisiest of same. Then again, I'm only paying $0.30 to $0.50 per square foot to put it on and I know it's going to need it again in 2-3 years.

The whole point of paying $10.00/sf is the assurance I get that my deck will still be there in 25 years, relatively undamaged by the elements. That assurance is the warranty. In this case, said warranty is not "vague" in the least - on the contrary, it's perfectly clear that my deck could splinter into toothpicks tomorrow and SealMaxx wouldn't have to do so much as answer my phone call.

If SealMaxx is a great product and I'm not justified in doubting its effectiveness, I'll be very satisfied and offer my mea culpas. But as a consumer, does the evasiveness of their salesman and the emptiness of their warranty not tell you something about how they view their own product? Would you buy a new car whose warranty promised only to replace the floor mats even if the engine fell out as you were driving off the lot?

Hmmmmm let me look back up there,,,,sm only protects against water damage,its imposible to get it out of the wood,if you dont like the deck all gray, sun damaged and with mold all over it go ahead and put on a quality finish on top of it, pay no attention to the warrenty sm is just foolen with ya on that one but 25 years is a cool number compaired with anything else,Kev ol son you just hung your self, sm from the way I read what your saying is a high priced tompsens water seal. Idea>>> put what you just said on the can right under the warrenty but in bold print. John

Why did I know that I was going to see this kind of response pop up? I thought I was pretty clear in explaining SealMaxx, and even tried to dispel some of the characterizations of SealMaxx dealers as "con men".

Okay, here goes again...please make sure you read this, and the previous post, before you start throwing rocks again. If you don't understand the content, ask questions. Then, if you want to criticize, maybe your criticisms won't come across as petty.

John, Thompson doesn't work anything like SealMaxx. (you mispelled Thompson). SealMaxx increases the density of wood, reducing absorbency, reducing water damage. SealMaxx bonds to the wood to become a permanent part of the wood. Thompson soaks in a little, doesn't bond to the wood, lasts a very short time. However, they do spend a lot of money marketing their product. Throwing the Thompson comment in comes across as an attempt to discredit SealMaxx, but it's a bad comparison...totally different product, totally different technology. Kinda like saying that Deckmaster builds decks out of balloons. Not true, but makes it sound like you do shoddy work. It's an unfair statement...and being an old Okie myself, you can do better.

John, Sealmaxx does not prevent oxidation...the greying of wood. I know I clearly mentioned that previously. SealMaxx address the integrity of the wood, not cosmetics. That's what stains and brighteners do...they're temporary solutions, there are no permanent solutions in this area as I mentioned in the original posting. However, if you stain/paint over SealMaxx the paint/stain lasts much longer. It looks like your saying, "AHA, the wood is gonna turn grey" Yes, I clearly said that in the first post. SealMaxx isn't intended to provide a cosmetic solution...when we're through, the wood is clean and pretty...but's it's going to turn gray. If you're okay with that, then the job's done. If not, stain or brighteners.

John, mold and mildew...also algae. I hope you're not saying that they won't grow on decks after YOU'VE sealed/stained them! Anywhere there is moisture and shade, that stuff is going to grow...period. Even if it won't grow on the stain/sealant itself, it will grow on the dirt/dust/residue that accumulates on the stain seal. This goes back to the annual maintenance discussion, any deck should be cleaned annually.

The difference between my solution and yours is that the annual cleaning will damage your sealing, it won't damage mine because mine isn't a surface solution.

Next, John. I don't make the product and for me to put anything on the can would be unethical, and illegal. I can't make representations on a product that I don't manufacture. On the other hand, I do guarantee my work to my customers. I go to pretty great lengths to take care of the people who have entrusted me with their business. I've never had a problem as a result of defective product, if and when it happens it will be covered by my warranty. A manufacturer's warranty is last resort protection, no matter who the manufacturer is! My customers didn't buy from SealMaxx, they bought from me...it's my job to take care of them regardless of any other warranty.

Which brings me to the next response...pressurepros. I don't think you've completed your research. Your photo was a job done with SealMaxx or a similar product? Was it SealMaxx or not? If not, what was the similar product? I could put up a photo and say this job was done by pressurepros...or somebody just like them. Does that make sense. In your story of the "flower", you refered to SealMaxx as a coating that would make the flower look artificial...but SealMaxx doesn't work that way...see my previous post. I don't think you could research the product, and come up with that analogy.

Okay, so now we'll match credentials. I grew up working with my grandfather in the 60's and 70's. Old time homebuilder in Oklahoma before there were subcontractors...my grandfather's crew did it ALL, framing, roofing, plumbing, electrical...you name it. Then, my father took over the business and I worked with him. I grew up in construction. I worked my way through college as a superintendent for a commercial construction company. My father has a masters in industrial arts, he has quite a wood working shop himself. I also have quite a wood working shop. Pressurepros, I'm sure you've got a lot of experience...so do I. We both know a lot of what we're talking about.

Did I give money back to 2 customers...yes. The first one used paint stripper (denatured alchohol) to clean his home damaging the finish on his home. It was not covered by warranty...obviously. He wanted me to redo his home for free, I offered to do it at cost, he refused. I gave his money back, apologized for not being able to make him happy. He was unreasonable, and I recognized that nothing I did would make him happy. I gave his money back.

2nd instance, a former sales rep told the customer that when we finished his deck, it would look like brand new. It as 25 years old, had never been cleaned or sealed, and needed to be replaced. We did the job, sanded the deck for a full week. It still looked like a 25 year old, neglected deck. He was unhappy, I gave his money back, and fired the salesman.

"you present your smoke and mirrors" I have no doubt you are very familiar and competent with traditional solutions for decks. However, it doesn't sound like you've got your hands around SealMaxx yet. So, you can discount it as "smoke and mirrors" or you can state you're not clear on how it works, and are anxious to see how it does on the market. In my markets, we have good deck service companies (a few) and bad deck service companies (all the other guys that own a pressure washer, lots of them). No matter how good the company is, they can only provide a temporary solution. Those solutions have to be repeated every 2 years, and ultimately the deck will have to be replaced. That's pretty factual.

I appreciate the offer to come see your work, or have you come see a 25 year old deck. I'm not sure of your sincerety, but based on your response, I doubt that any evidence is going to persuade you.

I'd love to talk to the contractor, please e-mail me his contact info...maybe it would put some fact into the rhetoric!

17 Years and never given a customer's money back...it's possible. It can mean that you have only satisfied customers, or you didn't take care of unsatisfied customers. The fact is that there is ALWAYS going to be that customer that isn't happy, no matter what you do. You can do exactly what you say you're going to do, and he's still unhappy...and it's difficult to believe that you've never encountered a customer like that in 17 years. When I didn't satsify that customer, I gave his money back...what did you do?

What is interesting to me is that neither of you addressed the guy I saw yesterday...20 year old deck, serviced every 2 years, and now it has to be replaced. He used one of the good companies in this market. All he has to show for it is a deck that needs to be replaced.

Jeffersonian, I can't respond to your concerns regarding the St. Louis dealer. I don't know him personally. I do know that my customers have told me that their calls to SealMaxx have been handled promptly and professionally. I can't defend the warranty as I didn't write it. What I can tell you is the same thing as I tell my customers, make sure you're comfortable with the company you're giving your business to. The honest truth is that if you're calling SealMaxx on the warranty, it's because there is an issue with the local dealer. I don't know how to make you feel better about your decision. The warranty is clearly a product only warranty, labor warranty comes from the local dealer.

That may make you uneasy, but be sure to keep in mind that product only warranties are the standard in construction trades. Manufacturer's do not guarantee the workmanship of the installing contractor, the same is true of SealMaxx. My experience with SealMaxx has been very positive, the manufacturer is very upfront about their product. I believe you'll find that your local dealer is going to be the key. Have you communicated your concerns to the the owner of the local dealership?

I looked at the SealMaxx site. It would be easier to make a judgement if they substantiated some sealing jobs that they did at the beginning of the 20+ years they've been in business, even if those were concrete.
As to increasing wood density, you either have to have the same mass in a smaller volume or you have to fill a lot of voids in the same volume. If SealMaxx is about the same weight per gallon as water, then you'd have to put a whole lot on per square foot to have any significant weight increase. Guesstimates follow. If PT 3/4 southern pine is about 2# per square foot and if you put an 8#/gal sealer on at the rate of 50 ft**2 per gallon, you'd increase density only about 8%. Or does it just densify a relatively small depth into the wood? Why can't you make the same claim about any other sealer/stain that penetrates a little into the wood?

KevinW,

I'm not knowledgable about your product, but if its main purpose is to increase wood density, and prevent water-ingress related deterioration problems, it seems that it would have greatest effect on the lighter woods--cedar & redwood, or even ACQ framing.

It seems unlikely (or irrelevant) that it would have much of an effect on Ipe, and by the time the field sample results are in, I will have, er, moved on to greener pastures.

I was somewhat concerned, though, when I replaced my twisted, gnarly PT pine decking recently with Ipe, partially on the old existing frame, that the decking would outlast the frame. So, do you have any data on SealMaxx' effect on either ACQ or CCA framing materials?

Please also address any test results or, in the absence thereof, the company's position about its effect on hardwoods such as Cumaru, Ipe, and Mahogany.

Sprinks

I don't have a comment re: SealMaxx per se as I am not at all familiar w/ their product. I'm sure there will be salespeople out there that embellish the claims & there are others that may be conservative.

Purpose of this post is to address the challenges being made to see a deck where this product has been used for X # of years.

I'm in the semiconductor industry & we utilize methods to do accelerated testing so that we can simulate how our product will function after X amount of time in use. These include acclerated life tests, autoclave (pressure cooker), temperature cycling, etc.

I'm sure there are accelerated tests for the deck protectant/stain/sealer that manufacturers use. So just because a product has not been in use as long as its warranty claims it is good for is not a reason not to use it. John's approach of seeing even a 2-year old deck w/ SM on it is pretty reasonable given the product has been out that long.

We make our reliability data available to our customers. I'd like to see from SM similar data that shows tests were done & the product did pass such that they can claim the 25-yr guarantee.

But to keep asking to see a deck where SM has been in place for 25-years or so is obviously unreasonable. While I don't know but I assume SM has not be in business that long & even if they have the product itself has not been around that long or certainly not the same formulation. I doubt there are many finishes out there that have been on the market in the same formulations as 25-yrs ago.

Mike

Well Kev,you being from the country and all,let me put it to ya this way>>>Say I pitched your stuff it would go something like this, see what you do is pay $10 a sq ft extra for this seal max finish now its not going to help with your project going gray and its not going to protect it from the sun and it has no protection from mildew/mold but it gets into the wood and kinda makes it tougher,,ya know it keeps the water from geting in the wood,some how,and its got a really flakey warenty that dont mean a whole lot but it says 25 years right on the can,sorry they dont give anything in writing until the jobs done. What?? why do I need this stuff at all?? is that what your saying?? well just calm down and let me splain it to ya,,its been simulated,like in a lab someplace,and they say it works just about really good, of course they only been in business for a few minents but Helll they got a phony warenty for 25 years, but I dont really know what its warrenty is good for, whats that you say? you want the red/brown of the ipe to stay that way?? Well Mam what we do then is put twp on top of that stuff,im telling you it works great!!

All I can say is I'd bet my bottom dollar that a cedar deck with SM treatment on it right after being built will look like & need to be replaced like any other 25 year old cedar deck. Same is probably true about any other wood deck.

Kevin, are there any SM dealers in the Austin/San Antonio area? I'd like to check this stuff out first hand.

Al

Sometimes you just have to laugh! John, interesting comments. Not sure what you're point is, but interesting nonetheless.

Regarding the discussion on testing, I agree. Paint/coatings have testing methods that simulate life cycles up to 50 years, per construction standards such ASTM and MilSpec. The only documentation I'm aware on SealMaxx is on arsenic encapsulation with CCA treated lumber and flame retardency. That's not retarded, John...flame retardant means it doesn't burn fast.

Per being used on exotics like ipe. I wouldn't recommend it. Ipe is very, very hard wood...very dense and doesn't get much penetration from SealMax...about 1/4" SealMaxx doesn't bring much to the party with ipe as the stuff just doesn't warp or rot...water can't get into it either. The cleaning process bleaches the ipe to a much lighter color...it still looks terrific, but not the deep mahogany look that's natural.

We've run into several customers with ipe that bought it thinking it was virutally no maintenance and would last forever. Then they discovered that the recommended maintenance on ipe is monthly oiling...they weren't happy. One customer described it as spending 3 X more for an ipe deck thinking it was the answer, only to discover he has to spend all of his time keeping up with it. Traditional coating products on ipe don't wear well, within a year they get very dark...think purple, mahogany, grey.

Ipe doesn't rot or warp, but it does split quite a bit around penetration points...nails and screws. Stuff is nearly bullet proof...you can drive nails with it. Keeping that terrific coloration can be a challenge.

Mahogany. We've done one mahogany deck for a local builder. He was having trouble with rotting on a home he built. Again, dense wood = less penetration. I checked on it a few weeks ago, the builder says it hasn't been long enough to tell about the rotting but he can tell that the wood isn't taking on water like it was. We weren't sure about mahogany, so we did this job at no charge as a test case.

I have seen testing showing penetration of 4" on CCA treated lumber...but not in an independent lab. I'd be hesitant to validate the product with that data.

The mfr. has posted all of the independent test data at their web site. www.seal-it.ca

Before I took the product on, I made them show me the oldest decks they could show me. I saw 3 - 5 year old SealMaxx jobs. The decks that had not been stained look great, some were a light grey, some had been brightened annually. The stained decks look great, as well. 5 year old stain job that still looked terrific.

Next I saw a log fishing cabin that had been sealed with SealMaxx 7 years previously. Several other cabins around built at the same time by the same builder. The other cabins looked terrible. The SealMaxx cabin was a light grey, but was holding up very well. Other cabins showed splitting logs and some rot...not the SealMaxx cabin.

I was satisfied enough to take on a dealership.

Is there a dealer in San Antonio? Sorry, I don't know. Go to the SealMaxx web site, www.sealmaxx.com, upper right hand corner you can see where they have dealers.

That's it! I'll be glad to field any questions I can. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell you that. Hope others will take the same practice

And John...good luck.

Same to ya Bro.

Kevin,

I went to the website you suggested to view "all of the independent test data" that Seal-Maxx has posted.

The sole independent test data on the site is a 1989 report from Professional Service Industries on Flame Spreading. I judged the report to be inconclusive and confusing for the following reasons:

- The first and second pages of the five page report appear to be the same, identical cover letter.
- The cover letter states that fir plywood and planed cedar were tested, but the number of samples is not stated.
- Three flame test curves are posted with varying results--the first levels off at about 1 minute into the test to a flame spread rate of 13-15 Ft/Min. The second two curves show a significant increase of flame spread rate at five minutes into the test, which continues to increase at increasing slope throughout the ten minute test period.
- There is no identification of which test results belongs to which samples.
- There is no data of any kind on controlled, untreated specimens for comparison.
- There is no stated conclusion from the independent lab, either qualitative or quantitative, about the impact of sealing with Seal-Maxx on flame spreading as determined by the test method.

The rest of the site consists of 7 "articles". Identifying them as such implies, to most intelligent readers, that they are from an independent journalistic source. They are in fact, however, marketing materials from the manufacturer. Claims made, such as a "300% increase in paint life", have no independent nor manufacturer-developed data to support them.

I agree with a previous poster and you that there are independent ASTM tests that simulate real-world environments so that product information can be obtained more quickly than would be possible in a "real-world" test. In fact, I used to be an ASTM Committee Member that developed and commented on such test methods. My question, then, is why hasn't Seal-Maxx had such tests performed by an independent lab to verify, for example, the effect of sealing on:

- Moisture Content
- Mildew & Mold Growth
- Compressive & Tensile Strength
- Stain Life
- Microsurface Condition

Since the product has been formulated since at least 1989, it seems 16 years has provided ample opportunity to do so.

Should any of this information be available, I would certainly welcome the opportunity to review it.

Sprinks

How do I avoid ever having to give money back to an unsatisfied customer?

1) I under-promise and over-deliver
2) I use products that I have refined over the years, I don't use customer's homes or decks as guinea pigs
3) I fix anything with which the homeowner is unsatisfied.
(because they are fixable, I don't use a product that once it goes down, cannot be removed)
4) I give realistic guarantees.

Kevin, instead of worrying about whom is picking on you, please take the opporutnity to respond to Sprinks post. I told you, I am all about revisiting my stand on the product but I need to see something to back up the claims.

I want to chime in on Jeffersonian's post. My husband and I also contracted with SealMaxx of St. Louis, relying upon the endorsement of Scott Mosby. We have a large, two story deck and gave them a $3500 deposit to seal our deck, concrete driveway and sidewalk. For all I know the product may work, but the SealMaxx people won't finish the job. They started in mid-April. Sealed the driveway. I asked them to save the sidewalk to another time in order to facilitate letting the dogs out of the house on a dreary day. They returned a few days later, stored my grill and deck furniture under the deck, moved planters and composter to various sites in my yard and began sanding the top story. They left a ladder strapped to the deck for over a week--without returning. I finally called, and another business (a floor refinisher) called to say they would be at our house the next day to sand the deck. They appeared and sanded the floor of the deck. (Railings, etc. still to be done.) Once again, days passed and no sign of SealMaxx of St. Louis. I called on a Saturday morning to inquire about their plans to finish the job. Was told that no one was available and they would call back. No one returned the call. I called again the following Monday afternoon and asked, again, if someone could tell me what their plans were to finish the job. Was told no one was in the office and they would have to call me back. Frustrated, I threatened a Better Business Bureau complaint if no call back in 24 hours. Never received a call back. Instead of BBB complaint, I wrote the company and sent the letter via registered mail. They called my spouse the day the letter arrived and assured us the job would be finished by the end of the week (week before Memorial Day) and that they would be there the next day. They admitted that, had they had it to do over, they would not have taken the job. They returned a couple of days later and claim to have finished the top portion of the deck. (I'm at their mercy because you can't tell from the state of the wood.) They assured my husband, again, the job would be finished by Memorial Day weekend. That's when we learned that, if we wanted our deck to continue to look nice, we'd need to seal or stain it. The job wasn't finished by Memorial Day. They called and said they would return on the Tuesday after Memorial Day and finish the job. They have not returned. In the meantime, our furniture and grill are below the deck, coated with sawdust, and their trash remains where they left it. I have filed a Better Business Bureau complaint. No response from SealMaxx. The BBB site says one complaint since March 2005, assumed resolved. Don't know if that's my complaint or not. I have notified the BBB that my complaint is not resolved. I also copied Scott Mosby. No response.

Mr. Mosby's endorsement no longer carries weight. Perhaps the SealMaxx product works; I'll never know. They have $3,500 and I have little to show for it but a deck that, before they started, only needed touchup. It now requires serious staining. And I have been unable to use my gas grill for months. That may be the worst part! :-)

We're not sure what we're going to do next. But I would not recommend doing business with SealMaxx St. Louis; I don't care whether or not the product works. I encourage anyone on this forum with a complaint with SealMaxx St. Louis to go to the Better Business Bureau website and join me in filing a complaint. You can also find an email address for Scott Mosby on the KMOX website. Maybe it will take a few more complaints before someone wakes up.

Suggest you contact SealMaxx offices in Iowa, let them know what's going on. Maybe they can give you some help from their side.

Winsome, I am very sorry to hear about your plight. I doubt your situation will be resolved. Contact the district attorney. These guys need to be put out of business.

Kevin, thanks for the suggestion; I'll give it a try. Pressurepros, I hear ya. I know we may have to resort to a legal action. Quite dismaying.

Winsome45 - I had similar, though far less dire, experiences with SealMaxx St. Louis. My job was done far later than promised, but at least it was completed. It was a smaller job than yours...a total of about $1,700 or so.

I'll second your opinion about how the deck looks afterward. Mine looks like it's at least 10 years old now - heavy grain, washed-out color, mottled appearance - even though it just turned three. It looked far better before SealMaxx got its hands on it, frankly. I'm regretting that I didn't just call someone to power-wash, seal and stain it.

I too wrote Scott Mosby and, like you, received no response from him. Apparently the stratospheric price of SealMaxx's shabby service and ephemeral warranty are used to buy the voices of the visible for at the price of their reputations. I have this Saturday marked on my calender to call his show and ask some pointed questions about deck services. Tune in and listen.

Anyone in the STL area contemplating using SealMaxx is free to e-mail me at jeffersonian22@charter.net. I'll let you come look at my deck, view my invoice to confirm price, and see the copy of the "warranty" offered by this outfit. Then I'll let you make your own decision about whether to contract with them.

Jeff & Win,
Please contact me directly by e-mail, I may be able to help you.
Kevin

So, in a nutshell, this petrification process isn't all it's cracked up to be, huh?

Apart from Kevin's comments I have yet to see any positive feedback from clients who are satisfied with the SealMaxx application. Despite the obvious skepticism of an unproven product, the concept is intriguing and makes sense if in fact it works. I recently received a quote from SealMaxx that was approx. double that of a normal deck cleaning and sealing but is no where near the $10 per square foot claimed by someone.

Is there anyone out there who had this product applied to their deck/other woodwork that can attest to its effectiveness. I've seen what cedar decks look like after 20 - 25 years with normal maintenance and if I can prolong the life of my deck by investing an extra $1,000 (which is the price difference between SealMax and a regular sealant) then that is money well spent...

Kevin - would any of your clients be willing to attest to their satisfaction on this forum?...

andreask

Thanks for your posting. I don't know if any of my clients are active on this forum, none of them have ever mentioned it. If you could contact me by e-mail, I'd be happy to provide you with as many referrals as you'd like. I'm confident that you'll get a very positive response, but keep in mind that my clients only have one year of experience with SealMaxx. Maybe not what you want to hear, but better to be candid!

I'm happy to provide referrals for our work, but would strongy encourage you to check referrals for your local dealer. I'm sure you'll find he does a great job and, more importantly, he's the one that will be working for you.

Kevin

Andreask,

I suggest you read my post above. I've yet to get a response. You do the math.

Sprinks

Dear Forum Members,
I found this site and forum while looking for information about inexpensive covering for my deck. I have rehabbed old greystones but have no knowledge about the products you are speaking about. On the other hand, I have just gotten through a law class on the Universal Commercial Code section 2. There is a section called 2-315 Implied Warranty Fitness for Particular Purpose. Which basically says that if the seller knows what you want the product for and that you are counting on his skill or judgement the goods should be fit for that purpose.

This sounds to me like what is going on here. Kevin seems to take this seriously as part of his job but Scott may have said things he will be very sorry he said.
Any lawyer who does Sales or UCC law can tell you the law. As a student I can only suggest that you read the UCC.
Hope this is of help.

Now my question for those of you who obviously know decks - I have a rear deck (second floor). Has had a roof on it for all its life. I want to take the roof off. flooring and ceiling joists underneath are good but it is not water tight. They are also at the same hight as my door and inside floor so adding flooring (wood, aluminum etc) would make a problem. I have found 2 products which might work called DecTec and Deckrite. Can anybody tell me anything about either of them? I would appreciate any help.

NotALawyerYet,

You seem to miss the point that no how "seriously" Kevin takes this aspect of his job, no DATA either exists or has been presented that supports any aspect of the claims his company makes about his process, despite 18 years of opportunity to do so.

When I was in manufacturing, and had a bona fide advantage over my competitors, I either performed verifiable testing in-house, or contracted 3rd party testing that backed up what I was prepared to claim in the marketplace.

If Seal-Maxx wishes to be taken seriously, why haven't they offered such data?

Sprinks

Gee - so glad to find this thread. I kept hearing this company advertising today. Sounded like just the thing for DH who is about two years over due to clean and seal the deck. Since it seems he hates to seal the deck so bad, I thought this might be the answer. Since the product sounds too good to be true, I checked out the website. Very little information about the company, company history, time in business, actual projects that have held up for 25 years - or any amount of time for that matter. And then I thought I'd see what I found here - and found this which reinforces exactly what I was thinking.

So as usual, if it sounds too good to be true it probably isn't true.

It's fall and I just saw the SealMaxx add. I have a court restraining order to keep me 1 mile away from any Lowes, Home Depot, or Menards--I don't do home improvement well!

The add made me think, despite whatever it said, I thought, YES, for 25 years I don't have to do anything but sit on the deck drinking Margaritas and listening to Santana. So what the heckIÂll call and get an estimate.

They could not give me an estimate over the phoneÂthey had to "see" the deck.

When the salesman got there, in suit and tie, he had a clipboard, calculator, and measuring wheel. He looked at my deck and said "oh!" Although I donÂt have any curves, my deck does have some angle points. I watched him start to measure, and measure, and measure, and measure. Finally, he said well I think I will just take an average of each dimension and asked if that sounded good to me.

Really I told him, itÂs just a rectangle and a triangle. He measured the rectangle as the base of the triangle, rather than the longer length, and he measured the height and base of the triangle and multiplied them together; added the numbers and said there. Now, I know he is not the installer, but if he is selling this stuff, shouldnÂt he have a simple understanding of geometry and the formula for the area of a triangle.

Furthermore, if this stuff is priced by the square footÂI could have given him that number over the phone and saved us all a lot of time.

Finally after he showed the price, he was unsure if it could be done this year; when we set the appointment there was no problem getting it done this year. Actually I said I would prefer it be done in next summer. So for the big close, he said normally he would need 1/2 down now as a deposit to hold a place for next summer--he could accept a little less.

I asked for a copy of the warranty when he first arrived, and again as he was doing the estimate, he assured me he would give me oneÂI never got one.

I want to quote a statement on the back of the estimate: "If the cleaning process is more difficult than anticipated, requiring extra time and labor there will be an additional charge, not to exceed 15%." I will never sign an agreement with this clauseÂthey sent someone out to look at it, give me a quote and move on donÂt hide a 15% up-charge based on feelings. And, what is the difference between "time" and "labor," and how is each measured, a different value for time and different value for labor?

Ok, done with the sarcasm. Bottom line. I read with great interest all the posts, I wish I lived near Kevin so he could actually come out and do my job! However I do feel mislead on the deck staying "like new color," granted my interpretation of the advertising materials (wondered why the salesman was pushing the stain every time I told him I liked natural). Kevin has convinced me my interpretation/perception may be in error. ItÂs not maintenance free. ItÂs expensive. I think I will just hire someone every 2-4 years to refinish it.

That stuff is a complete scam,the venders will not give it up,the sales staff is in on the whole thing. ghesssssss J.

Ran across this today and even though it's an old post I thought I would answer a repeated request.

I am a homeowner that had my deck treated using Sealmaxx three years ago. It was a deck that I built and the Sealmaxx dealer had me wait until the next spring because it was treated wood.

Deck looks fantastic. It is graying, but I like the color and never use tints on my outdoor wood as they are too high maintenance, and if you don't keep reapplying the color everything looks trashy.

I clean my deck a couple of times a year, no pressure washer just a good scrubbing with a push broom and some cleaner. No mold, no mildew, no discoloration. Just a nice, even gray color.

The wood is more dense. If I want to run a nail through it I have to drill a hole first, well I don't really, but I get tired of bent nails.

So here is a testimonial from a satisfied customer with a three year old Sealmaxx treated deck.

I was given the written warranty by the saleswoman on her first visit before I asked to see it. It was the FIRST thing she gave me.

And no, I don't work for them or any other dealer, I am a self-employed computer consultant.

I recommend Sealmaxx. It sounds like you want to be careful about the dealer rather than the product.

Dude, pt wood would go gray Anyway it also gets harder with time Anyway.So what exactley did this stuff do??

I'm desperately searching for a lawsuit against SealMaxx. We had it applied to our deck and our deck is falling apart - cracking, splitting, breaking. We need to get the flooring and railings replaced which is going to cost over $10K. We paid a lot of money for the sealer that included a 25 year guarantee. They are now nowhere to be found. They should be paying for the replacement of my deck.