deckmaster jim,

this is starting to sound like an advertisement. is it a coincidence that the product is deckmaster, and so are you?
why did you dredge up this year old thread?

steve

Steve, it is high grade spam,same with tony the trex lover. You and I have building years behind us, between us hmmmmm lets be kind, 70 years or so, we both can see how construction is going to go before it happens thats our job. These guys want folks to use the stuff they want to use/ sell thats the job they are taking on.Sometimes geting into a spat with it all is kinda fun but the bottom line is everyone gets a chance to give input and the people who want info get it. Lets just leave it alone Brother. J

I didn't realize this post was 1 year old when I responded. I noticed the month of July in the posts preceding DeckmasterJim's but did not notice they were from 2005.

Steve, I have to give DeckMasterJim the benefit of the doubt. Any businessman would know you don't resurrect a post that is a year old, that is damaging to your product (right or wrong), has quite a few people knocking it who are respected on this forum, & then try to convince them to go read the manufacturer's website & all will be right in the world.

If anything, I think DeckmasterJim might be very smart. If he works for Deckmaster's competition then this is an excellent way to resurrect the past, start a new discussion which will certainly be primarily negative toward the product, & the competition should see some increase in market share.

Pretty good strategy, huh?

Jim did a search for his product and came across this website. He is entitled to defend his product. It doesn't change my opinion but I am willing to hear out intelligent arguement.

It's been a year since I had my Ipe Deck with DeckMaster System (Stainless Steel) installed. Everyone who has seen it has liked the look of not seeing numerous screw heads.

I know is has only been 1 yr - but so far there have been no issues with the system and hopefully will remain that way. Will keep you posted.

I too used the Deckmaster system over a year ago on a cedar deck and have not had any problems. I haven't even put in half the recommended screws yet the boards are not loose at all. I used the powder coated screws.

Steve, it is high grade spam,same with tony the trex lover.

That's right, you caught me. I'm a highly paid shill for Trex.

Just like you are a highly paid shill for TimberTech.

- Tony

Gentlemen:
The forum addressed Deckmaster's holding power and ability to provide a hidden fasten which is ecomomically viable for the service life of the deck. No where did the responses attack the contributor's opinion, but rather the technical aspects of the original question. The best features and benefits are found on the manufacturer's website. Kneejerk opinions by contractors who haven't used the system or other competing products do not lend factual information to those who are truly interested in building their projects.
Myths prevail until they're refuted, which exactly is the point. Whether it seems like an ad or just a writing style would, again, not be an issue, because it is - free.
Questioning the purpose(s)of this writer does not address the issues of deck building a great deck.
Measure twice, cut once and remember the three little pigs.

Jim,
I don't mind people coming here and promoting their products...especially if they contribute their knowledge. I have a feeling that you are a smart guy, and that there are things I can learn from you.

What I don't like is a barrage of self promotion with no content. I don't like watching adverts on TV either.
I think you represent Deckmaster, but you keep referring to them in the third person. you don't ever see me promote myself by writing "check out Steve's website. He he does great work. that's www.urbanexteriors.biz". You'll never see me do that :-)

I'll put it to you...are you affiliated with Deckmaster.com?

about your product...I've never used it, and never will. the idea of screwing in decking from below is screwy...especially with wood as hard as Ipe. First of all, I don't always have access to the bottom of a deck, and even when I do, it's not convenient to screw upward into such hard wood. then there's the issue with screws breaking, not penetrating far enuf to hold the board in place, or splitting the 3/4" ipe that I use. I could go on, but there's no need.

There's no system better then face screwing and plugging. that's my hidden fastening system. you may be able to sell your product to DIY folks, but not to guys that do it for a living.

that's my opinion, and i'm sticking with it

steve

DeckmasterJim,

I did not see any uplift values/tests for the "red box" actual 3/4" minimum hardwood decking boards. Can you provide that?

The uplift value tests show that 2X6 boards were used. How many screws were used at each joist? They also reference a test set-up photograph on page 7 of the document which I did not see. That may be because of my computer security settings. Can you post that setup as a JPEG or email it to me?

What testing agency granted the ACQ compliancy? Is the symbol used showing ACQ compliancy on the website an industry standard symbol or a Deckmaster-only symbol?

Thanks,

Mike

You gotta love the "step above you average DIY'er" people on this website. Keeps me on my toes.

Steve, you gotta stop with that endless self promotion, Ken from PressurePros, Inc thinks it is a bad idea. ;-)

DeckmasterJim,

I meant to ask above how may screws were used in each 2X6 deck board that was used as the test units.

Thanks,

Mike

I can't type today. It should have said " I meant to ask above how "many" screws were used in each 2X6 deck board that was used as the test units."

Thanks,

Mike

Try and picture this like I do,say the deck is hmmmm 3' off the ground,80% of my projects are 2' and below,but lets say 3' high the frame is done ready for the decking.A couple of guys fasten this L metal on one side of each joist, one guy to hold the other end one guy with a straight edge and a screw gun fastening the metal flush with the joist. Then one guy gets on his back or slightly in a sit up stance below the deck with his tool belt full of screws and two hands on a cordless driver,another guy is standing on the deck frame with a bowench and a few spacers geting the decking in the right place,another guy is standing on the deck board about to be fastened by the guy below so his weight will stand against the preasure the guy down below is puting on that little area as he runs the screw in at an angle into a 3/4'' ipe decking board that hasent been pre drilled because we are using type 17 point screws. Can you freeze that picture for a moment...............See the look on the face of that guy down below as the screws spill out of his tool belt because he is leaning up on his back trying to make that screw go into the hardest wood on the planet with out a pre drill,now drift up to the guy running the bowrench and the spacer his mouth is open I know because he is in freeze frame but he is yelling at the guy down below wanting to know if they can move along to the next area 2'' from that one,its kinda funny but see the guy just standing on the board? he is really happy looking right? because he knows he has the best job going all he has to do is be dead weight.......OK let em go back to work freeze button is off, they have to do this over and over and over because this is a 900 sq ft deck and we should not hold them up. J

I am not sure exactly what John is trying to say, like always, but I used the Deckmaster system all by myself with no problems. Of course I used cedar.

Johnmon,
I can see it clearly, and I don't want to be the guy on his back trying to screw up into ipe with screws that keep snapping. I prefer to be on top when I'm screwing.

steve

Steve,,soooo funny,,cant you just see trying to do the job that way!!!! even better by your self!!!! thanks wort I really needed a good laugh right now. JohnMon signing off,its time for my pain meds.

Yeah John,
I'm self medicating too, as if you didn't know. I really shouldn't go online after a couple of rums. I say things that I regret later...not.

hoist a tecate to us deck builders

steve

Borisswort,

Re: "I haven't even put in half the recommended screws yet the boards are not loose at all."

What size cedar decking did you put down & how many screws did you use at each decking board?

Thanks,

Mike

My boards were a full 4" wide, joists 16" oc. I had a little less than one screw per board per joist, but since this thread reminded me, I went out and put the rest of the screws in. I usually put two screws per joist per board.

How could you have "a little less than one screw per board per joist"? Does that mean at some joists you did not use any screws and on average you only used one screw per board per joist.

Yes, I had only one or no screws for some joists for a year with no problems, but now I have two.

Steve, who am I? I am a technical writer and evaluate fastening applications for publication to engineers, architects, and deck designers. I work with the International Code Council (ICC), National Redwood Assn, the Professional Deck Building Assn, and also a member of ASTM.
Recalling the original question about Deckmaster by a DIYer?
My contribution to the question referenced testing, installation, and performance in various materials, including IPE.
Some of you interpreted the contributions as self-promotion while it is actually the despelling of mis-information from
installers who never used Deckmaster and never will.
Steve, you began your note above mentioning tou might learn something and ended it with "and I'm sticking to it."
Most of us learn something new everyday. Sadly, some do not.
All the installation scenarios described above are myths.
Deckmaster is best installed and faster from top of the deck, which for 2nd story decks means no scaffolds, ladders. The actual images of driving the screws are on the deckmaster.com pages.
New products are for those who are looking for a better way. You can rest assured there are progressive thinking contractors and DIYers who do their homework on every aspect of their business or home improvement project.

Education is a wonderful thing. The more you have, the further you can go.

Mike13,
Thanks for your research.
The Uplift test was with a 2 screws per board, per joist, just like an actual installation and is code. The tests were done by Testing Engineers, Inc., of Oakland, CA and is referenced in the prelude in the doc.
ACQ Compliancy logo is an industry standard regulated by Preserve TreatedWood. http://www.treatedwood.com/fastener.pdf
Deckmaster screws are made by Grabber with Grabbergard. As you saw, both Stainless and Powder coated are available. So, let's despell another myth. Although IPE and some composite websites recommend Stainless screws, they are referencing surface fasteners, to avoid staining. Since Deckmaster is underneath, you can use the powder coated kits. Although staining might occur, it's covered by the bracket and out of site. The stainless is recommended for seaside or around pools.

John, in the same amount of time it took to write the lengthy version of the how Deckmaster isn't installed, you could have learned how it actually IS installed.
Fastening IPE, using the predrill-countersink and plug method, takes 4 steps per screw, 5 if you use glue.
By comparison, Deckmaster can be intalled at a rate of 60SF/HR after the brackets are installed, all from the top.
No per-drilling in the field, no countersinking, no glue.
Not that the conventional method is inefficient or ineffective for the application, it is for some. Others would just appeciate the correct information to the
subject. Goes to integrety, accuracy and reputation.

Naaa Jim, I was just having some fun with ya, but how you say to install those things and how it will really go are two completly diferent things, fastening ipe with out a pre drill/not using ss fasteners is not a smart idea no matter what your site says or you say now thats just the bottom line ol son. I install T&G ipe for the no fastener showing look and have been for a lot of years, it goes pretty fast,dont cost a whole lot, I get paid real well for it, and the Wallet is always very happy right after the job and years later. I can see your not a Carpenter and you dont do decks for a living but thats ok! like I said I was just having a little grin time and I think its got some facts in there if Folks want to see them. Hang in there Jim! I am sure you will find some buyers for that L metal and I know it has a place in our deck business.John( being kind and not saying where that place is) Hyatt

We created a ceder deck using Tiger Claws because we do not like the look of all those screw heads showing on the deck and railings. I would not hesitate to use Deckmaster. I would never hire any you contractors with your closed minds. Are you using electric tools?

DeckmasterJim,

I agree w/ your statement re: "Others would just appeciate the correct information to the subject. Goes to integrety (integrity), accuracy and reputation." There are several "facts" that have been stated which just don't seem right so possibly you can clear these up.

1. The original OP inquired about the use of 1X6 IPE and the Deckmaster hidden fastener system.

You responded by stating "The holding power with the 10 ga screws penetrating at the angles contribute to 1000 lbs/sf holding values. Yes, it seems as if a 5/8" penetration is slight, but the density and hardness of hardwoods and composites is so high, the 10 ga screws have excetional strengh, cannot and will not vibrate loose." and also that " Deckmaster is the only manufacturer which publishes the actual test results on uniform uplift values."

There are NO published test results on Deckmaster's site that deal w/ the use of their products with either 3/4" decking board thicknesses or the use of IPE. Their tests were done w/ redwood & pressure treated decking and w/ their products that work only w/ 5/4" & above thickness decking.

Most companies typically run tests across their range of products to ensure functionality, reliability, & quality. Either Deckmaster did not run tests on their "red box" product that works w/ 3/4" decking or they ran the tests & did not like the results thus they did not publish those.

Same goes for IPE except that there was no IPE tested, regardless of thickness even though you stated "Recalling the original question about Deckmaster by a DIYer?
My contribution to the question referenced testing, installation, and performance in various materials, including IPE."

So as a technical writer why would you state 1,000 lbs/sf of holding power w/ IPE & composites? I assume you research the products you write about. Did you in this case?

2. You say you "I work with the International Code Council (ICC), National Redwood Assn, the Professional Deck Building Assn, and also a member of ASTM.". I'm familiar w/ the ICC & ASTM ($75 & anybody can join). I'm not familiar w/ the National Redwood Assn & the Professional Deck Building Assn. Can you provide their websites as I would be interested in learning what they have to offer?

3. You also stated "ACQ Compliancy logo is an industry standard regulated by Preserve TreatedWood. http://www.treatedwood.com/fastener.pdf ".

I went to the above website & I found nothing there that suggests they are the authority on ACQ compliancy or that they test/monitor companies who claim ACQ compliancy. I also have not seen Deckmaster's ACQ logo used anywhere else so that leads me to believe Deckmaster themself developed that logo. Please enlighten me on what I am missing here.

I've got a few other questions but have ran out of time. I look forward to your responses on the above so that we can all become better educated.

Thanks,

Mike

Canute,
You used tiger claws on your railing? Please explain that so that maybe I can learn how to do it too

I don't like exposed screws either...that's why I usually plug all the screw holes...if my client will pay for it.

as to not hiring me...don't worry...I wouldn't do a deck with tiger claws, or deckmaster.

do I use electric tools? not me...I make all my cuts with a machete, and then I bang in my nails with a club.

steve

Deckmaster,

so you don't work for deckmaster grabber, and you don't build decks. Yet, you are deckmaster jim. interesting.

"Steve, you began your note above mentioning tou might learn something and ended it with "and I'm sticking to it."
Most of us learn something new everyday. Sadly, some do not."

I was referring to the plugging of screws being the best hidden fastening system. I wasn't joking about learning things from you, and you do have some credentials. I don't have a closed mind, but I know alot about what I do, and I know Ipe. My fastening system works for me, and I'm not going to switch to "hidden fasteners" for many reasons. The main reason is that I do this for a living, and I don't want to test a new system on a client. If you want to send me a sample kit, I can make a little test deck and put it in the yard for 2 or 3 years...i'm sorry, you don't work for deckmaster...I forgot.

anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing some informative advice from you, here on the forum. Messages that are not advertisements for Grabber/deckmaster.

steve

Jim,
I was just checking out the deckmaster website again. I can't believe they're selling the bowrench for $115.07 (.07?).
Mcfeelys.com sells it for $60. I know you don't represent Grabber, but it's just some important info for folks that want to buy one (and if you're building an ipe deck...you need one)

steve

Steve,
Great responses to the issues. This is what blogs are all about.
Samples? Have Deckmaster send samples of visit a local dealer that has a display, if there is one near you.
Sorry, California Redwood Assn, not National..
Search "DeckEXPO" for the Deck builders Assn info.
ACQ compliancy. Preserve Treated Wood's site lists the manufacturers of approved fasteners, Grabbergard, the coating on the Deckmaster screws, is listed. You're not missing anything on the ACQ compliancy, Steve, it is a very cloudy issue. Many of the composite and exotic wood suppliers defer to the fastener manufacturers to produce coatings to meet different ASTMs. The Standard for corrosion resistance of screws is ASTM B117 which is a controlled salt spray test. ACQ is but one type of pressure treatment, Wolmanized is the other major supplier.
The Uniform Uplift Values tests were done with Redwood, a softer wood than IPE. The moment of the system failure occured when the screws deformed the bracket, ie pulled through the steel. Engineers transpose data based on the Specific gravity of the different types of woods and with IPE being much harder than redwood, the uplift values would remain the same. The tests also indicate the use of slightly different lengths of screws have little effect in the reduction of the holding power of the system. IPEs specific gravity is 1.+ and the 1" screw, penetrated 5/8" +/- offers sufficient strength, to hold the board in place.
Deckmaster is currently testing IPE as a single entity and has created an ICC protocol for deck attachment testing which, to date, there is none, except "2 fastenrs per board, per joist."
Steve, I do not contest that top screws and plugs have more holding power. The inventor/contractor installed his decks in exactly that manner and had to find a combination of hidden fasteners and sufficient holding power to make the system work for the long term, per their warranty.
Decks could be pre-drilled and plugged using 10, 11, 12, and larger diameter screws but their is a point in all designs when the sytem is overdesigned/overspecified with no significant improvement in the life of the system.
"Our work is done here, Tonto"
"You can lead a horse to water,..."
I think Will Rogers wrote,
"Men only learn three ways,
by observation, by reading, and by
peeing on a hot wire fence."
Personally, I've had enough hot wire fences and I read as much as I can.
Good luck to all.

Jim

Man.. I wish I had all the time you guys have to throw this whole Deckmaster thing around.. but I got a deck to build and a wife holding out on me until it is done.. so you can see how I would like this thing done as soon as possible..

Guys, I got a 10'x21' deck.. all pressure treated with 5/4 pt decking ready to go on.. sorry I wish I could spring for the good decking.. or better yet.. hire someone to do this.. but it ain't happening on my budget..

What I want to know.. being the "french carpenter" that I am.. is does the product work? I mean.. for the average DYIer.. it looks like a good thing..

My deck is 6' high.. I can get underneath.. so that whole argument is out..

I don't want to see screw or nail holes from on top.. I probably would mess up the whole plugging method and get frustrated.. which also sounds like a lengthy process..

So it seemed like a clip or this type system are my choices.. I googled these things.. the clips look like a pain.. but the deckmaster thing looks like it might be ok..

I admit.. I am not so impressed by the price.. (anyone have a promotion code I can use when I order.. the kids are getting tired of raman noodles.. so help me out here.. lol..)

But honestly.. how bad can it be? I realize everyone has their favorites.. but some of the blogs on here seem to be more about preferences and trashing than informative to a DIYer..

Can anyone provide me with some USEFUL information on whether this works with 5/4 PT decking??

If I use it and it works.. I promise to blog that it worked.. if it doesn't.. well.. woe be to Deckmaster.. the wife knows how to email and blog bad products like no tommorrow.. lol..

Well French, I assume you read all here about the opinions on this product. I would be willing to try it. I just used the clip for my Ipe, and I like them, but this system does seem to be about the same in cost, so I would go with either one. Your other choice would be to use tiger-claw clips, which only require a "hit" to get them in, as oppossed to having to make a groove.
No one here can honestly answer for you in regards to your budget, but since you said that face fastening is out, I suggest trying the deckmaster. If the cost really is too much, you can probably try to find the tiger-claw types online, and get them cheaper than the local stores.

Good Luck!!

French,
When I used to use pressure treated (CCA) pine for decking, I just face screwed. I'd sink the screwhead below the surface, and it would get swallowed up and disappear. If you go with ACQ, the deck will look so bad in 5 years that it won't matter if you hide the fasteners or not anyway.

steve

If cost is a factor with the L metal just use a acq 2x2 fastened flush to the frame and screw thru that into the decking.Doing it this way a person could use construction ahdesive and it might have a fighting chance. John

FrenchDYIer or is it FrenchDIYer,

For these boards to be of productive use it is important that members share accurate & truthful information & not false information that will benefit that person. In DeckmasterJim's case he resurrected a 1 year old post regarding Deckmaster & proceeded to communicate many incorrect statements. I'm not sure whether he works for Deckmaster (he never denied working for Deckmaster, he just said he was a technical writer which he could be under the employment of Deckmaster) or is just not well informed of the Deckmaster product.

I think it is important to expose these false statements & possible "trolls" as it goes toward getting the real truth out. I've never used Deckmaster (considered it after sufficient research but went a different route) & I doubt DeckmasterJim has either.

For your Pressure Treated Wood decking application I think Deckmaster might be an OK technical, not cost-effective, solution. One of the issues I have w/ the Deckmaster product (and I have several) is that they recommend screwing into IPE without predrilling. This exerts a tremendous torque force on the screws which I believe can cause premature failure i.e. breaking/snapping of the screws. Going into PTW, which is a softer wood, is not as much an issue. Also, given you have 5/4 thickness (really 1" unlike the original OP's 3/4") gives you some extra margin as well. I'd suggest you get a copy of Fine Homebuilding May 2006. It has a good article on most the available deck fastening systems. Deckmaster is listed as the most expensive.

Now back to correct more of DeckmasterJim's comments above...

He agrees he was mistaken on saying he was a member of the National Redwood Association which doesn't exist. I agree there is a California Redwood Association which he says he is a member of. Regarding the Professional Deck Builders Association he says to search "DeckExpo". Well, DeckExpo is sponsored by the North American Decking and Railing Association (NADRA) and Professional Deck Builder magazine but there is no Professional Deck Builders Association which he claims to be a member of to my knowledge.

He states that "ACQ Compliancy logo is an industry standard regulated by Preserve TreatedWood. " & then above he explains that untruth by saying "ACQ compliancy. Preserve Treated Wood's site lists the manufacturers of approved fasteners, Grabbergard, the coating on the Deckmaster screws, is listed. ". The fact is that Preserve Treated Wood's website list manufacturers that claim their hardware can be used with ACQ lumber but none of those manufacturers are regulated or controlled by Preserve Treated Wood.

DeckmasterJim states above that "The Uniform Uplift Values tests were done with Redwood, a softer wood than IPE. The moment of the system failure occured when the screws deformed the bracket, ie pulled through the steel. ". As usual only partially true. Tests were done w/ redwood & pressure treated decking in 5/4" & above thicknesses. Also, the failures were about evenly split among those that pulled through the bracket AND also pulled/stripped out from the DECKING itself. Futhermore the Grabberguard screws are 8 TPI, they use a Type 17 point which means there is a slot cut into the 1st few threads, thus practically all the threads that go into the 3/4" decking have about 1/4 of those threads missing i.e very little holding power.

DeckmasterJim also states above that "The tests also indicate the use of slightly different lengths of screws have little effect in the reduction of the holding power of the system." Well, given that the 1" screws which are used for the 3/4" decking only go in 1/2" to maybe 5/8" (they did not publish any test results on these, I wonder why?) and the other solutions 1 1/4" & 1 3/4" go in at a minimum 50% & up to 300% further I would not consider that a slight difference in holding power.

DeckmasterJim failed to mention the Massaranduba bulletin which attempts to explain the reasoning for Grabberguards screws breaking off in the decking boards. They blame it on the Massaranduba distributors which recommended 1/16" spacing but they go on to recommend predrilling all holes going into the decking so as to prevent excessive stress on the screws during installation. However, in all their other installations guides, including IPE, they say no predrilling is needed. IPE is denser & harder than Massaranduba so that makes absolutely no sense. There will be significant torque placed on the screws going into IPE which has not been predrilled & this will show itself in time.

I also don't like that the screws are partially exposed to the elements. This just does not make good design sense. Screws are designed to hold two members together without a space in between the members.

Given that they are the most expensive hidden fastener solution out there today & with the above mentioned problems I will not try that solution on any IPE or hardwood deck I build.

But again, on PTW decking they may last fine for a few years.

Good luck to those that have used the Deckmaster system.

Who is this Mike13? And why is he so down on the Deckmaster system?

rom The Second Half Of Life A taped series by Angeles Arrien

Anyway
People are unreasonable, illogical and self-centered.
Love them anyway.
If you do good, people will accuse you of ulterior motives
Do good anyway.
If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies
Succeed anyway.
The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
Do good anyway.
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
Be honest and frank anyway.
People favor underdogs, but follow only top dogs.
Fight for some underdogs anyway.
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
Build anyway.
People really need help, but may attack you if you help them.
Help people anyway.
Give the world the best youÂve got and you may get kicked in the teeth.
Give the world the best youÂve got anyway.
from The Second Half Of Life  A taped series by Angeles Arrien

GrabberJim,

nice nice...I liked it. Angeles makes alot of sense. you should practice what you preach.

Jim said...
"Personally, I've had enough hot wire fences and I read as much as I can. Good luck to all."

you told us "see you later"
i was hoping it was true
did you think that Arrien's reflection?
would negate your deserved rejection
forgedaboutit dude...you're just a deckmasterbator

from the second half of my life-steve
(after a couple of rums)

Soooooooooo funny Steve!!Thanks Man I needed some Major Yucks right now.Deckmasterbator,,I am going to remember that one. J

Wort,

I'm not so much down on the Deckmaster product as I am people presenting themself as a "pro" & then communicating totally false information. I'm not a "pro" deckbuilder but I know enough to know that DeckmasterJim was totally full of it.

If you question anything I said above just let me know the specifics.

I have not read or listened to the "The Second Half Of Life" by Angeles Arrien so I'm not sure if or how bad DeckmasterJim botched up that communication. Supposedly being a "technical writer" he should know & I hope he got permission from Angeles for reprinting a portion of her works, especially in such a public domain.

I do know DeckmasterJim made many false statements regarding Deckmaster products, the associations of which he supposedly works w/ or are members of, and who oversees ACQ compliancy, all of which are stated above. Whether he did this because he is an employee of Deckmaster or because he is ignorant of those subjects I can not judge.

Wort, I've blown off your endorsement of the Deckmaster product line. Given that your testimony was based on having either 0, 1, or in some cases 2 screws per decking board/joist tells me that you practically just laid your boards across the joists w/ very little connectivity. I will endorse your cedar decking supplier as you must have received some very fine cedar decking for it to be able to withstand temperature cycling, changes in moisture levels, etc. & not have warped, cupped, bowed, etc. while basically not being connected to the deck.

John mon,
I really shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard after a couple of rums, but I'm glad you got a chuckle out of it.

How's the recovery going? You'll have to change your nickname from old scar to new scar.

steve

Hey Steve, the last of the stiches are coming out tomorrow, not bad geting around but not much good on the job either but I heal pretty fast. I am still laughing at that. The new old scar on the construstion trade ( inside joke) John

Mike, my decking supplier is McClanahan Lumber in Forks, Washington. And yes, my decking is so good I am not sure I needed any fastener. My boards are 28 feet long, perfectly clear, old-growth heartwood vertical grain cedar. I bought a Bow Wrench but never opened the box.

I did not mean to endorse the Deckmaster system because I do not know how well it will work on most of the decking sold these days. So far it has worked great for me. Have you even used it?

Ok,
I found this site doing a Deckmaster web search. I have read some really boring to really funny to really smart and quite a few fibs...on this topic

So here is my situation and then finally a few questions:

I have a 37 x 14.5 section of deck and another 11 x 12 section of deck attached to the back of our house. We are 2 feet to 4 feet above ground on a gradual slope right to left facing the deck.

We have built the smaller section with 12 OC joists for a hot tub. The larger was built with 16 OC joists for the larger part.

I have ordered the Redwood decking, all 675 sq ft of it at 2 x 6 boards with 10 foot through 20 to lenghts. I decided to use Con Heart instead of Con Com redwood.

We hope to to do a perpendicular installs on the smaller section and do two 14' x 14' forty-five degree sections for 29 feet of the large section and then more perpendicular in the remaining 9 feet.

My questions are:

1. Would anyone of you (professional and DIYers) use Deckmaster for this type of installation (yes this is not IPE). If you don't think it will work, please provide some logic on why this system might not work well for 2 x 6 redwood Con Heart.

2. I found the "Fine Homebuilding" article referenced above. Therefore can anyone offer an alternative to Deckmaster and from screwing from above, I don't want to counter screw and plug redwood.

3. Can any one tell me what stain/protectant they would use on this redwood?

4. We are using Stucco Pillor/Posts every 8 feet. What would anyone recommend for railing between the light colored stucco. I am looking at two options. One is prefab metal black railing. The second is using CorrectDeck 2 x 4 and 2 x 6 rails with solid metal ballisters with basket every 4 ballisters.

Thanks for you help!!

This thread keeps turning up like a bad penny. I didn't like the idea of deckmaster then, and I don't recommend it now.
Top screw your decking, make some redwood plugs...that's the best hidden fastening system.

steve

I dont know how much more can be said about using that L metal.Sand if you want to use it,use it. None of the Contractors I know even give it a second thought encluding my own Self. Just let this one die...Ghesssssssss J.

Steve, thanks for your feedback but please don't discourage the thread, I am trying to get everyone's opinion.

John, Thanks for your feedback and BTW I wasn't asking for your permission, just asking everyone their thoughts. Since you seem to be speaking for many contractors maybe we can have others express their opinion.

I should specify that my question isn't about IPE it is about redwood (Con Heart).

Anyone else care to give your thoughts?

Here are the questions again for your convenience.

1. Would anyone of you (professional and DIYers) use Deckmaster for this type of installation (yes this is not IPE). If you don't think it will work, please provide some logic on why this system might not work well for 2 x 6 redwood Con Heart.

2. I found the "Fine Homebuilding" article referenced above. Therefore can anyone offer an alternative to Deckmaster and from screwing from above.

3. Can any one tell me what stain/protectant they would use on this redwood?

4. We are using Stucco Pillor/Posts every 8 feet. What would anyone recommend for railing between the light colored stucco. I am looking at two options. One is prefab metal black railing. The second is using CorrectDeck 2 x 4 and 2 x 6 rails with solid metal ballisters with basket every 4 ballisters.

Thanks

Hehehe... definitely reviving the ole thread.

I have a 19 year old, 450 sqft cedar deck where I am slowly replacing the bad boards. The boards are installed diagonally at 45 deg. The deck is 12 ft deep and about 37 ft long. I started replacing some boards and screwing them down from the top. I have only replaced about 10 percent of the boards. I only thought about looking into hidden fasteners just now and did some googling. It seems the least invasive product would be the deckmaster. Since I am replacing the boards as needed, I am actually staining them first before installing them. I am staining on both sides (top/bottom) with 2 coats. When I pulled the old boards out I noticed that the bad boards were rotting at the unstained bottom side. I am using Cabot which I found to be better than a latex based stains. It seals better.

After looking at the Tiger Claw, Sure Drive and Deckmaster, it would seem that the deckmaster would be the least invasive to the wood. The Deckmaster would also facilitate installing the new boards adjacent to the old board without removing the old board bc all you do is screw it from the bottom.

Btw, my deck is at least 8 ft above ground. Id above my walkout basement.