Off the top of my head, a minimum of $25000 in Calif.

If you don't want to waste anyone's time. Call the builder and ask him how much that project cost.

Mark

Is any builder actually going to give an estimate over the phone? Every time I call someone they have to come out to give an estimate, even when I tell them exactly what I need, which I can't do in this instance. That figure was about what I had come to trying to figure things out. Thanks.

Sorry I wasted your time Mark.

Unless its a very simple project I cant do anything over the phone either. It might help to make a drawing of how you would like that outdoor area to be if you could have everything you want, drive some stakes and pull some string .

There are a lot of ways to go with composite that could add or subtract several thosand $ John

What are the labor rates like in your part of IL? Are you near Chicago? I live in the Washington, DC area and here, labor rates are quite high. Depending on square footage (figuring about 250-300 for the screened porch and an additional 250-300 for the exterior deck for your husband to get a beautiful suntan, I'm looking at a low of 26K and a high of around 38K for a similar project (one company bid in the mid-40s but they must be on drugs). It's funny---some contractors are not at all design oriented and you must spell out exactly what you want, style and materials. Others will give their recommendations and even make a quick sketch for you when they come out to give a proposal. If you're very opinionated and want something very specific, it might be best to pay for design help up front and get all your specs together, then bid it out. But if you're not too picky and just want something basic and nice, find a contractor who has done a number of similar projects and let he or she run with it. I found that unless cost is no object, you have to make trade-offs to stay within budget. If you insist on the most expensive materials, you might need to go smaller. If lots of space is most important, go bigger and use less costly materials. We're settling on a fairly spacious porch and deck---outside deck to have Fiberon composite decking but wooden rails (except composite top rail to match deck). The pressure treated rail and spindle was a cost concession---going full composite for the rails put me over budget so I went with wood except for the handrail). For the porch, I'm using thick tongue and groove basic wood for the floor, stained (it's not exposed to the weather, so hopefully it will age well). Rails will be the same as the exterior. I'm paying an extra $1000.00 for two skylights and I'm having lattice put around the bottom of the porch for storage (but not around the bottom of the deck). I really got into small details with the contractor, such as what materials he is using for the trim boards, the quality of the storm door, type of stain for the porch decking (He likes Sikkens), how many power outlets, etc. Really, once you know who you're going to sign with, it protects both of you to spell out exactly what's expected. For the most part, I trust my contractor's experience and advice, but still want him to spell out on the contract exactly what he's doing. Funny you mention the stones under the structure. I'm probably going to add that later. Since the lattice will cover the underside of the porch, I might put the cheapest possible gravel in their. But under the exposed deck, I might want something more decorative under there. I guess that might be a do it myself project next year, after the thing is built.

Thank you John! I am planning to make up some drawings of what I have in mind. Would it be best to mark out where I want the deck? There is a patio in part of the area as well as gardens and bushes. Are the drawings enough?

Angelom,
Wow! This gives me hope that I will get this figured out yet. My neighbors did a mix of wood and composite and it looks good. In fact, they did exactly what you are doing. I'm going to take some pictures of the back and sketch out what we have in mind, one sketch with the enclosure and one without. I am hoping if we can't do the enclosure now that we can add it later (or maybe I can do that part myself). We could go smaller, but we have a huge yard and I would love a bit less grass to mow since my lawn guy (my son) is going off to college soon. We are in the Western suburbs of Chicago, and it is a very expensive area to get work done. I almost had a heart attack last year when I priced getting a new water heater installed. I could do it myself for 20% of the quoted price. Do you have any wildlife problems in your area? We have a ton of skunks opossum and raccoons. I want to be sure nothing is going to want to live under my deck. The people next to me had a family of opossum under their deck last year, one of them died and they had to rip half the deck open to get it out. Yuck. Do you think rocks or skirting would be a better deterrent? I don't remember my neighbors having either.

Thank you for your help!

I haven't experienced skunks or woodchucks/ground hogs, opossums or raccoons. Here, it's deer, squirrels, some chipmunks---occasional snake, though very unusual for the snakes to be poisonous and birds. There are foxes in the neighborhood too, which I don't like considering I have a toddler son. My porch and adjoining deck will be built way off the ground (I'm guessing about 7 feet.) so the space under the structures isn't den like at all---it's wide open and high. Ironically, if anything, that privacy lattice might encourage small animals and snakes to take refuge under the porch. I'll have to keep an eye on that I guess. You're in a good situation if you have a lot of property to work with. You can make the deck and possibly porch (or future porch) nice and big and not feel as though you're shrinking your yard too small. As you said, if anything, you'll be getting rid of some maintenance on the yard. Plus, I think it's unusual for someone to wish they built a smaller deck or porch---but when you start adding furniture and grill or having people over, you might wish you had more space if you build too small. You could find all sorts of plans and pictures of porches and decks by Googling or right on this forum. Also, if you watch your Sunday newspaper supplements and mail, you might find ads from companies that do this and there are usually photos that might give you some good ideas.

Angel I need you to work for me!!! I can see you would be really good on the phone with my Wallets., but you cant even talk about pt rail system with a costly composite project.

Jcr,its a total plus when I go out on a bid to see stakes and string already in place. Its the best way to make sure we are all biding the same thing. Having drawings as well gives a very secure feeling to us Contractors,We know you know what you want. Belive me its a guessing game with a lot of Folks even after several passes/ our time involved.

A clear picture of what you want,when I bid out,results in lowering my added $ for the trouble things that might be added later . John

John: I'm hoping the PT rails are decent. They LOOK good when he seals/stains them and they feel properly solid. I'm definitely concerned about the long term durability. As much composite railing as I'd need, it would have been a major price hike. The less expensive stuff looks bad to me and the nicer stuff would have been cost prohibitive. Down the road, if I'm unhappy with what I picked, I wonder if the railing can be switched to an upgrade? One thing in my favor (I think) is that the area doesn't get extreme sunlight. It's usually in the shadow of the house and shaded by trees. Since the vertical parts of the rails are what's lumber and the top handrail facing the sun is what's composite, I'm hoping for the best.

John,
What do you think the best way to do this is? We know what we want, but I also know that we may not be willing to part with as much money as it will cost (esp. with the way the stock market has been!). We are thinking that we could start with a basic deck and add a shaded area (gazebo?) at a later time. Maybe we can find some way to modify our ideas so that we can come close to our ideal. Do I string off the area that we know we want for the deck proper and then explain our ideal deck and see what can be added without making us uncomfortable with the budget? I'm willing to be flexible with the design to get as close as I can to what we want, but I don't want to confuse the poor contractors. The main problem to me is the lack of a firm budget. We fully well expect to pay over $10,000 for any deck we put up, but we aren't sure how high we are willing to go without having some idea of what we would get for our money.

So my thoughts now, Make two drawings, one of the basic must have deck and one of our ideal deck. Mark out the area for the basic must have deck. Discuss what our ideal deck would have with the contractor (have a list to be sure I give the exact details to any contractors involved).

Does this sound like a workable plan? I really do want to give the contractors a bit of leeway because they know infinitely more than I do and may have a much better idea for giving us the deck of our dreams than we do.
I can't wait to be done with this and the landscaping we will have to do. From now on I'm sticking to indoor remodeling projects that I can do (most of) myself.

That sounds like a great plan, start at the top then if the money is not right back off a little. One thing a simple shade trellis is going to be less than an eight sided gaes e bo.

Its not that pt material rots, and bugs dont eat it,the material is just not stable exposed to the weather. J.

JC, I think that you misinterpreted my post a little. It was you that brought up the wasting of time.

My suggestion was to call up the local builder of the particular project that you liked and ask him what it cost. He may not want to give you that info, but it does not hurt to ask. That would give you the best idea of what things cost in your area.

Yes, it is very helpful if the client supplies even very basic drawings. But in the end, someone will have to price it out and it may be a waste of time if that price does not fit within your budget.

You need to know your budget, at least a range.

John or any of the other deck building contractors, I am curious, do you do free designs and estimates. How much detail do you give the client for free? Do you require the client to divulge a budget?

Thanks

Mark

I put up a 16 by 16 pressure treated deck about 3 years ago. Six footings, about 3 to 3.5 feet off the ground. Simple railing system. It was about 3,000 in materials. DIY labor, but it took about a week of steady labor to dig the footings, mix and pour the concrete, attach the ledger, set the beams, frame up the joists, and attach the decking. It took about another 2-3 weeks of a few hours here and a few hours there to finish railing and stairs.

If its a complex decking project I charge for a detailed plan usually a yellow pad drawing is all thats needed and I take that with me. One easy way is to do it on a laptop,that is its an easy way to keep the Wallet from taking my work and giving it to another Contractor.

We dont usually talk about how much they want to spend but sometimes I ask if I should shoot for something within a price range. John

Brewbeer: You make it sound easy---but being a guy who barely knows the difference between Phillips head and Straight head screwdrivers, I couldn't take on a project like this in my wildest dreams. My only hope of doing it "myself" would be getting some of my friends who are wizards with tools and conning them with beer and pizza. One of my friends did a deck for himself (I actually helped him dig the footers) and he did a great job. But realistically, a licensed contractor is the way I must go. When I set out to replace the old homeowner built screen porch that's currently on my house, I didn't have a great vision of what I really wanted. It took months of internet research, looking at photos and meeting with contractors to refine the plan. The guy I'm going with was the one who gave us the best ideas and seemed to have the clearest idea of how to best utilize our space. Little details that he mentioned made so much sense to us---and the other people who came by weren't nearly as specific or imaginative as he was. Sure, when I started getting callbacks and hearing "I can do that too." it was tempting to say "How much?" But I'm comfortable that this contractor gave us a competitive price---and rather than playing one against the other, the fair thing seems to be to award the job to the person who is most responsible for the design.

Way to go Angel. J.