I am not a professional but I have watched installers put in vinyl fencing. Every time they started a job they would put cement around the posts. If they had treated wood inside the posts I am not sure. They would set the posts in concrete one day then come back the next to finish the job. My job position at the time required me to go out and monitor jobs from time to time. I can honestly tell you that we never had a complaint about one of our fence installs. So in my opinion I would say go with the cement. As far as the climate I am not sure. I live in Louisiana so I am sure your climate is different than mine.

All vinyl fence manufacturers of which I am aware require a wood post (usually 'treated' or natural resistant to rot lumber like cedar or redwood) to be installed inside the vinyl 'sleeve'.

All require posts to be 'concreted' into place or permit a 'modified' type stone or gravel base(walnut sized stone with fine stone dust) tamped into place.

NO legitimate fence installer would suggest a wood post insert is an 'option'.

NO legitimate fence installer would suggest concrete or 'modified' stone an 'option' for post placement.

If your installer is telling you that you can properly install vinyl fence post sleeves without a wood inner post, or that concrete or modified tamped stone is not required:

RUN AWAY as fast as you can and find yourself a REAL fence professional....'cuz the one you found isn't.

I was under the impression that putting a wooden post into concrete was a bad idea. The concrete essentially acts like a sponge accelerating rotting of the post. Compacted stone was the preferred method to provide a means for water drainage around the post.

In any case, make sure that if the installer uses a pressure treated post that it is rated for ground contact.

Thanks for all the advice, fellas. I appreciate your tips. As it turns out, all the installers I spoke to DO use a PT insert in the post. Is the insert supposed to run the full height of the post, or just at the base? All I can figure is that it protects the base of the post from damage during cementing or tamping.
The installer who said cementing is optional DOES use the modified stone method described by manhattan42. I believe I will go with cementing, however.

No reason I am aware not to install an ACQ treated post directly into concrete.

If there is, please enlighten me.
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That said, the PT post should go the entire height of the vinyl 'sleeve' because it is into the PT post that all fence fasteners must attached.

Vinyl post 'sleeves' are just that: sleeves.

And not meant to structurally secure any other members of the fence assembly.

My dad's neighbor across the street thought he would go the easy route and avoid lugging the concrete and just back fill. You guessed it after the first good wind, it was a leaner, and he had to do it again right this time.

I had commercial quality vinyl fencing installed without wood posts nor gravel (they used concrete pre-made mix on the outside of the vinyl post (which is hollow inside)) by a professional as it seems, they did not use level so the fence is not necessarily straight, goes up at the end by several inches and is leaning at other places by say 1-2 inches. Is this the correct way to install?

Thanks for the additional info. Fence was put up 2 years ago by a reputable fence company, posts cemented. No problems, even after last winter's snowblowing when snow was piled against the fence.

"I was under the impression that putting a wooden post into concrete was a bad idea. The concrete essentially acts like a sponge accelerating rotting of the post. Compacted stone was the preferred method to provide a means for water drainage around the post."

Only if you bed the bottom of the post in the concrete.

The bottom of the post hole below frost depth) should have a few inches of gravel an then place the post.
Add a few more inches of gravel, then concrete.

The bottom of the concrete needs to be below frost depth, so dig at least an additional 6 inches or so.

Without concrete footings (and often a wood member inside posts) vinyl fencing is not all that strong.

How should vinyl fencing posts be installed? The advice above appears to be:

6" gravel base+wood inserts treated for burial+160lb concrete per post.

I have 3 different contractors recommending 3 different ways for the same ActiveYards/Veranda Dogwood/ArrowWood panels (I am in New England):

1. 3' depth, 6 inches of gravel in the bottom of each hole and 160# of concrete per post
2. 3' depth, no gravel, 80lbs concrete, Pressure treated wood block insert (5x5x9)" for line posts, & 7' block for gate posts
3. 3' depth, no gravel, 80lbs concrete per post, Aluminum Post Stiffener or galvanized steel insert for gate posts, and no inserts for line posts because they are rated for hurricane winds

All 3 say that gravel is not needed because in MA the ground is rocky enough for drainage. Which of the above 3 options seem best, if any?

"All 3 say that gravel is not needed because in MA the ground is rocky enough for drainage."

The gravel is not for drainage but to prevent forming a 'swimming pool' around the bottom of the post that traps water.

Do not hire anyone that wants to embed the bottom of the post directly in concrete.
It WILL rot.

re "It WILL rot."

Thanks. The manufacturer says that wood posts are not necessary or recommended except in a gate or latch post. There, it is used to give the screws something to bite, not to strengthen the post. Two 1x4s, shaped like an L in the corner where the hardware is, is recommended.

The manufacturer also recommends the 6" gravel base despite there being no requirement for wood inserts, and the fences and posts are .135 inches thick. So, do you recommend wood inserts, and gravel with/without wood inserts?

Here is a link that might be useful: installation instructions

Any additional info. would be much appreciated.

"Two 1x4s, shaped like an L in the corner where the hardware is, is recommended. "

And if you bed this in concrete it will rot.

And we all know the manufacturer is interested in getting the longest possible life.

They want to get past any warranty, and that is about it.

Easier sells more stuff also.

It is like some paints that like to advertise they 'cover in one coat.'

Right on the can the warranty requires two coats.

There are 2 kinds of vinyl posts, vinyl sleeves, and vinyl fence posts. Sleeves are very thin and require additional support. These kinds of posts are really just ornamental covers. Vinyl fence posts on the other hand are structurally designed to support a vinyl fence. They use relatively thick walls, 0.135" to 0.150", or in some places like Miami 0.270" thick walls to withstand hurricane force winds. For the most part these are 9' posts installed 3' in the ground, cemented with anywhere from 80 to 160 pounds concrete. Vinyl fence gate posts on the other hand generally require additional higher up support to keep the weight of the gate from causing the post to lean. Gravel is sometimes used under vinyl fence posts, not for drainage, but to provide a footing in soft soils so the hollow post doesn't "sink" into the soil over time. Filing the hollow inside of the vinyl fence post that is underground with concrete also helps to keep it from sinking into the ground.

Several years ago I had a professional contractor install my new vinyl fence. I have noticed that it leans inwards and outwards in spots. I know they did not pour concrete for the posts. It sounds like the vinyl posts are hollow, I don't think there is a wooded post inside the vinyl post. I do know that during rainstorms I have standing water all along my fenceline.(probably why it leans). My question is, did that company do the work properly ? And what would you prefer I do to get this fence from leaning in and out.

My dad did a really nice job installing his vinyl fence - looks and feels very solid several years after the install. He just used hollow posts with no cement except at the gates. Just go down deep enough and put some rocks and sand on the bottom of the hole for water drainage. Tamp the earth nice and tight and save the concrete and/or wooden posts for the gate(s).

Concrete does not allow the post to drain. Compacted stone, like paver base, is the preferred method of anchoring the Pressure Treated 4x4

I am wondering and perhaps this is off topic, if so my apologies. Moved into an existing home. It has vinyl fencing. Plan to extend fence in the future and may need to customize. I saw one piece that because of a crack in the vinyl, it looked like there was wood or some type of fiber inside. Long story short what is the construction of the fence posts and slats, and cross beams?

Here is a link to what looks like my fence on Home Depot. Even a link to the construction would do. No luck so far in any searches.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-Yellowstone-6-ft-x-8-ft-White-Vinyl-Lattice-Top-Fence-Panel-Kit-73006453/204986290

Thanks for your time

David-

You're asking something different than was posed by the OP. It's always best to start a fresh post rather than piggyback onto something like this which is more than 6 years old.

The job was done 6 years ago by a professional fence company with an excellent reputation. They did cement the posts, but I don't remember if they used wooden inserts. The fence is still in perfect condition, even after having tons of snow blown against it last winter. (No choice in the matter!)

I'm looking for a company that sells and installs vinyl mailbox/sign posts in Southern Maine. When I ask for a vinyl signpost they all show me your traditional realtors post. I'm looking for something more like a decorative post similar to many mailbox posts I've seen can anyone help me out on this?

I install fence for a living. The only time we use 4x4 inserts on a vinyl fence post , is when its supporting extra weight like a gate post.

Thank You Steve, after doing some custom fitting, I realized that when installing a double gate, 12ft, that I would need them, after the fact. I appreciate your update.

I'm a homeowner in Kentucky who installed my first and only vinyl fence 16 years ago with a couple friends with no installation directions and our fence looks as good today as it did when we installed it. We put the 4x4 vinyl post sleeves in 24 in deep holes 10 inches around and we packed the dirt at the bottom so the bottom of the post sleeve sat as close to 24" deep as we could get by eye and tape measure. Rented a 10" power auger and setup a guide line and measured and marked the post holes with white spray paint (sorry don't remember the measurements between holes at this point). We put the brackets for the panels using a cardboard template we made with posts on the ground to drill screw holes and install the panel brackets with post on the ground, just was easier and more precise that way. We put post in the hole and attached the panel (except for the first post which we let that one set in the concrete an hour or so on a 85 degree day before attaching the panel) so we knew we had that prefect and put one 60lb bag of quick set dry concrete mix while adding water making sure to check the posts were level on all sides and lined up with the guide line during the process and checked the top of the panel for level. Then we attached the panel to the other side of the post before starting the next post and repeated the procedure until the fence was up in one day. Doing it this way is much easier that setting the poles one day and the panels the next which my neighbors professional installer did which required a lot more precise measuring and time and I don't think his fit was as good as ours but still looked good. I'm not knocking that method but don't think it is for the first time installer either. The fit of ours is prefect because the panels kept everything in place while the concrete cured and the concrete set up quick enough that you get the post straight and it held in the wet concrete. We only installed treated 4x4 posts in the gate posts for extra strength and for the latch hardware to hold on to and at that time the aluminum post inserts weren't available. We didn't use gravel at the bottom of the post with the 4x4 wood posts inside but I think that is a good idea but I haven't had a problem without it but we were also getting that older .60 pcf cca treated wood at that time which is probably more rot resistant than today's safer treatment methods which make sure you get mca .15 pcf ground contact if you can't get .60 pcf cca which is generally only available today at lumber yards for 6x6 poll barn posts because the acq stuff will eat your aluminum hinge screws in no time . I dug out several posts a couple years ago to build a pole bard and the vinyl posts where prefect and I've reused them in other places with the old concrete still attached to the post. Also just a cleaning tip, the dollar store brand beach cleaner is cheap and works great to clean the fence especially if you have the lattice on the top which has the wood grain look that is a prefect surface for the green algae to grow and difficult to remove without beach involved. Also I thought a pressure washer would be a great way to clean the fence but it isn't and takes 10 times longer than just using a 4 foot pole with cleaning pad and soap and water then using the bleach cleaner to get the tough stains. The pressure washer spray is just too precise and takes forever to cover the whole panel, works but takes a lot longer. Also over the years I've seen a lot of these fences put up without the concrete in the posts and all of them started leaning within a short amount of time, so the concrete is absolutely needed if you want the fence to stay straight.

I am reading this thread as I am getting quotes for an 8’ tall vinyl privacy fence. This is a big job and quite an investment for us so I am looking for any advice and information I can get. So, I have had two conversations with guys about install/costs.... one quote will be for the vinyl posts to go over a 6’ aluminum insert for stability and buried approximately 3’ in concrete (quickcrete). He also called his supplier while here to see what was available for 8’ privacy and never mentioned to me that it would be considered commercial, more about that in the next conversation. The other guy has told me that we don’t need the insert because the post already has stability to sustain the fence. Additionally, he said at 8’ height, it is commercial fencing, not residential. I also looked up both suppliers they told me they used one was Plygem one is Kroy. I googled them and it turns out they are manufactured by the same company. Please offer up any thoughts you have on of this information. Additionally, they are pretty much in the same ballpark as far as costs go, 20k for 330’ feet, does that seem high, low, competitive? Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom to head off any disappointments. BTW, the first quote is with a small, local, family owned, fence company who has been around a while , the second guy is a little more of an independent, but has been doing fence a long time.

Also, in our city it is approved to have up to 8’ privacy without a special permit.

Vinyl fence posts MUST be concreted and Filled.

If not, it will fail.

Ensure 1/3 of total post is planted.

(6ft high fence posts to be plantedin 3ft deep)

Also, steel re-enforcing rods should be inserted prior to filling.

Important; Use only 42.4s Cement mixed at 25 to 30MPA and fillmpost 2/3 up.

Fill complete hole with same.

Value Fencing PVC Franchise Group

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