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Cabinet boxes--does joinery matter ? $$ ?

15 years ago

Cabinetmaker Pricepoint (BBB rating A+) cabinet boxes are screwed and glued 9 ply birch plywood. $10,700

Cabinetmaker TopQualLuxeMkt (BBB rating A-) cabinet boxes are CNC milled mortise & tenon --probably the strongest joinery method for cabinets --bombproof --overkill? $13,900

Both are custom cabinet outfits. All other features and specs roughly equal. solid dovetail drawers, full extension, soft close. Cabinetmaker TopQualLuxeMkt is selling and marketing quality --claims to have superior finish quality, but no specifics. Cab Pp uses three coats of clear, which sounds sufficient to me.

Is the screwed and glued joint sufficient for euro style construction? I'm inclined to think--yes, for kitchen cabinets attached to floor and walls, but possibly not for freestanding furniture. My existing nailed and glued in- place cabinets have lasted 50-60 years--still going strong. (incidentally, I'll be 100 in 50 years)

Is the mortise and tenon casework worth over $3,000? Is the mortise & tenon overkill for the casework? Is it worth paying for the extra work and subsidizing the capital costs of the CNC setup, or sending the owners kid to private school?

I am a regular working guy, and we could put the $3,000 to good use. However, I also don't want to make a foolish error by cutting a corner that shouldn't be cut.

Comments (9)

  • 15 years ago

    Both will likely hold up longer than you need or till you get tired of them and replace them.

    I'd be surprised if that is the only difference though.

    Full extension soft close drawer slides can cost $20 from a Chinese supplier or $50+ from one in Germany. There is a difference in quality. Solid wood drawers could be cheap knotty pine, or soft maple, or hard maple or ????

    Better find out SPECIFICS - you know the cliche' "the devil is in the details"

    How the owner spends his money should really not concern you. Did you buy gas from a refiner based on whether the CEO lets his kids use the co. plane, or buy your groceries at the market where the owners send there kids to public school , or or your clothes from a store that gets them from a factory that employs Americans instead of overseas labor ???

    One could drive themselves crazy over stuff like that. Keep it simple.

  • 15 years ago

    I would like to see both in person to view the neatness of each joint. The M&T boxes could present finishing problems if they are "through" joints. Would mean end grain of plywood on view. If they are not through joints this is not a finishing problem, but it's also less of a selling point on strength. Maybe the m&T joints are just loose tenons like a glorified biscuit system (See Festool's Domino tool) And the CNC builder doesn't specify what the material is; is it equal to the 9-ply?
    Highest-quality plywood that is fastened with glue and reinforced with screws the right way is very strong and not liable to get out of order. Maybe the M&T is just marketing.
    Casey

  • 15 years ago

    I'm not clear what ''mortise and tenon'' means in the context of frameless euro-style cabinets.

  • 15 years ago

    My Mom has M&T joined frameless cabs so I assume they are going to be 5 sided (ie back is same thickness as the sides?) My Mom's are furniture grade particle board but they were like little rocks even before they were installed. In our case the company's use of this this kind of construction (which is about as necessary to make durable frameless cabs as plywood) reflected an overall commitment to detail and quality within the price point that was true in other aspects of the execution of the cabs.

  • 15 years ago

    antss, you make some important points, for sure. Specifics are very concerning, and it has been easier getting the specifics from Cabinet Pp than Cabinet TopQualLuxeMkt. CabPp actually uses Blum hinges and Tandem UM drawer glides, and hardwood Maple drawers. Cab TQLM uses Blum hinges and Hafelle glides, still no clarity on drawer species.
    You are also right that it is none of my concern how Cab TQLM spends his profits, it was just a smarty pants comment - my true concern is that I could use that $3,000 on my children.

    The M&T joint could be an indicator of better quality in other areas - the only thing left that I can figure is fit and finish. Cab Pp uses three coats of clear (can't remember the product - I think Daily). Again Cab TQLM claims to be known for their finish quality, but no specifics. Cab TQLM has been spinning platitudes about quality which have a thread of truth and raise concerns, but no specifics until pressed. Cab Pp has been very no nonsense straightforward.

    Another interesting point is that there has been a major contraction in the industry, and the luxe market has contracted the most. Cabinetmakers have had to reposition themselves and cut costs to compete. I have received wild variation in pricing. It seems to me that Cab Pp is saving on the case construction and putting value to into the things customers like me are looking for. So if the case construction is adequate to the task, and fit and finish quality respectable....

  • 15 years ago

    You know, I wonder if the mortise and tenon guy is using this CNC system (see link below).

    http://www.tenoncam.com/

  • 15 years ago

    You can click on the Fabritec Touch at the top of the link and then click on #3 on the right and images of the joints of the boxes come up. Most of the Quebec companies are state of the art so these must be produced on a CNC system. This company produces the Xpressions line available in the US through Costco. Available using 9 ply maple veneer ply if one is so inclined, though probably not all that desirable for frameless construction,

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fabritec Kitchens

  • 15 years ago

    I believe the tenoncam link is the "nested" process used. I always thought of this as rabbet/ dado, perhaps the extra shoulder changes the nomenclature.

  • 15 years ago

    HAve you been to an Ikea?
    Have you seen the prices of an Akurum box?

    http://www.ikea.com/us/en/search/?query=RATIONELL+deep+24%22

    A Blum drawer for $30: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90109977

    "... sufficient for euro style construction? ... yes, for kitchen cabinets attached to floor and walls, but possibly not for freestanding furniture..."

    Here is a link that might be useful: 33 bucks for this cabinet.

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