Shareher - can you post a layout of your kitchen as a whole? That will help assess where else you might be able to add storage or make changes and also to truly answer the question about your island.

Many here have grand large islands, but many have uber skinny islands too.

Will yours be one level surface? Eating at the island? A sink or cooktop? Those all make a difference on what size works.

I'm planning on a 3x7' island. I wish it were 4x7 so I could add 12'' deep cabs on the backside (under the eating area overhang) for additional storage. Could you do something similar and end up with 4' overall instead of 4.5'? Your walkway would still be large enough if you added just 6" to your island.

We have an island in our kitchen by those dimensions and though useful, I don't like the look of it and have a hard time getting to the fridge since it blocks it, very annoying. As long as your fridge is to the side, that won't be a problem. If we did an island that size again I would break it up somehow with different heights and/or adding butcher block to part of it.

How the depth of the island looks (too skinny, just right, too big) really depends on the rest of your room. And stools impact it too -- the stools in the first picture contrast and take up more space visually. The stools in the 2nd picture blend in and have a sleeker style so they disappear and take up almost no room visually; even though the island is bigger, it's not overpowering at all.

I would guess this island is 30-36'' deep x approx. 9' long

[

[traditional kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by charleston kitchen and bath Carolina Kitchens

And this one is 48'' deep x 9/10+' long

[

[contemporary kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by charleston kitchen and bath Carolina Kitchens

Thank you guys so much for your advice, and especially for the pictures. They are so helpful. I'm going to try to figure out how to post my layout sketches.

Here is layout option 1.

Here is a link that might be useful:

and option 2

Here is a link that might be useful:

The other option we are considering is to move the fridge by the ovens and the cooktop to the island ( no prep sink) so that we would get more upper cabinets. Any input or ideas would be much appreciated. We have to finalize by Monday. We are doing soapstone counters and wood floors. We gave an existing butch block which we might try to incorporate somewhere. Thanks!!

a suggestion i read in the lessons learned was to mock up your layout in boxes and card board so you can really test out how it feels to be in the space. may be worth doing.

Thanks. I'd love to be able to mock it up but the space is a combination of the old space and an addition and the wall separating the two is still in place. The plumber is going to stub out before the walls come down so I have to use my imagination.

Hi Shareher- Looking at your layouts I have 3 thoughts:

1.) It appears that you have allowed 18" of legroom for the island overhang. 15" should be plenty and it will give you those extra precious inches to work with. (I also specced 18" for my island overhang & thought 15" wouldn't be enough until I sat at an island with 15" and it was plenty even for my 6'3" tall brother.)

These next 2 suggestions' measurements all take into account going with option 1 above:

2.) Create the tall cabinetry you mentioned on the wall behind the island, but with the extra 3" now you can make them 12" in depth which will give you a much more usable space than the 9" ones on layout 2. I would make them as tall & as wide as possible and maybe even dress them up with glass front doors on the uppers. You will still have 42" of walkway clearance between the island & the cabinetry. Here's a visual option for you:

3.) Another option would be to make the island 12" deeper & run 12" deep counter height cabinets the length of the island on the back side. This does 2 things for you: it gives you the extra storage you need and it will calm your fears about the island being too skinny (new island size = 4'3" x 8' or 9'). You will still have 42" of walkway clearance between the island & the wall. Depending on what countertop you choose & your cabinetry selection, this may be a less expensive option than the tall cabinets. Here's a visual option for you; island in the photo is 4'3" x 9'--I apologize it's a construction photo & they hadn't finished the base yet, but it will give you an idea:

Hope this helps!

Hi Shareher -- I'll look at your layouts in a minute.

Till then, I'm doing a kitchen addition too and ended up doing a mock up in my garage. We didn't have tall boxes to use. Some counters were just marked off with tape on the garage floor, we used DH's big tool bench, some lawn chairs, the garage trash can -- anything we could to mark off depth and width.

Editionk--that's a great idea. Our garage is torn down too but we could set it up in the yard.

Mydreamhome--I just love love love the cabinet picture. I'm printing it out to show my contractor. Thanks so much!

Do you think that 45 inches is a wide enough walkway with seating? This will be the main passageway between the back door and the house, but we won't be routinely eating at the island. It's more space to hang out with family and friends when they come over. I'll post the revised layout and another option with the cooktop is the island.

Here is the modified option 2 per your suggestions.

Here is a link that might be useful:

And finally here is the version with the island cooktop

Here is a link that might be useful:

45 is fine in my opinion. That is what we have for our main corridor by basement door.

The top of my hutch (above) is 13" and the bottom is 16"deep. There is a TON of storage in these uppers. The little drawers are great for wine openers,charms. Candles and matches, one has all "my" tools a little hammer, screwdriver, picture hanging kits, one is even a gum/lolly pop drawer (nieces and nephews favorite). I love that everything is so orderly. Just order extra shelves so you can maximize the space. If you what to see it with doors/ drawers open I'll snap one for you. If you don't do inset you will have more room in the drawers. You could also do a flip up door to have a coffee or wine area. The only thing with narrow is storing platters and oversized bowls will be out. Also, don't forget the countertop will stick out about 1 inch further than base cabinet!

I used painters tape on the floor - to mark up island around the existing penisula prior to remodel to get a feel for clearences.

Hmm. I wonder if I could recreate the look with only 12 inches? How wide is it?

72" base
Are made up of 18" cabinet 38" drawers 18" cabinet.
Uppers (left and right) 18"w x 48"h 3 drawer(sits on counter)
middle 36w x 24h double(glass)
Toe kick heating blower under center drawers, undercabinet lighting on dimmer and wall outlet under glass cabinets (tucked to the side behind platter in photo)

There just won't be as much counter showing in yours because upper and lowers will be the same depth.

The question shouldn't be "is the island too skinny?" The question should be, "Is the island proportionate?" A long skinny island looks right at home in a long skinny kitchen but would look ludicrous in a big fat "U" shaped kitchen.

And there's nothing worse than a main passageway that isn't wide enough. If you have seating, the suggested walkway behind an island is 60". If someone is sitting there, you don't want to try to scoot behind them with a platter of hot appetizers and spill it down their necks because the space is too narrow.

you can tape it off in the driveway or backyard

One other option to gain a few extra inches is to inset the proposed cabinet into the interior wall. This will likely gain you about 4", which could be precious in your configuration. That way you'll easily get 12" of storage depth while only giving up less than 9".

You would need to talk to your builder to see whether this is possible in your house. It's only possible in interior walls (at least up here in the northwest where we need to insulate our exterior walls), and only if that wall is not being used as a heating or plumbing channel. And it will add a little to the cost, but not as much as you might think- I believe the builder simply installs a header over the cabinet as if there were a window there.

I definitely agree that a 15 inch overhang is plenty--my brother is 6'6" and he's comfortable at my island with a 15 inch overhang.

I don't think 45 inches for the walkway behind the island is enough room. If people are seated, then the chairs are moved back from the island at least a foot, very likely a little bit more, leaving only 33 inches or less for people to walk behind the seated individuals. That's too tight, in my opinion, especially if you are carrying something.

You didn't ask about this, but I am concerned about the placement of the oven--is that a doorway at the bottom of the drawing? The oven door is opening right into that doorway, a potentially unsafe situation. You could scoot it down a bit on that same wall, closer to the island, leaving that walkway clear.

Something to consider with an island cooktop is how you will vent it. Island hoods tend to be more expensive. This may or may not be a factor for you, but it is something you should take into consideration.

You can have extra storage built into the island under your overhang. I have 12 inch cabinets hidden under my overhang, and it's where a lot of things live that aren't used on a daily basis. What is on the other side of your island? Drawers? Cabinets? It looks like there's room for quite a bit of storage there.

I would definately tape off your layout in your garage, your back yard--wherever you can. Best if you can leave it up for a day and 'make a meal', 'sit at the island with people walking behind', etc. A lot of things really come clear when you mock up your layout and 'live in it' for a few hours or a day.

Best of luck,
Cj

Thanks for all the comments.
jm seattle: that is a really good idea. I'll ask my builder tomorrow. The powder bath sink is on the other side of the wall so it may or may not be possible with plumbing.

cj47. I mapped out some of the space last night and agree that 45 inches is tight if someone is sitting. The oven/microwave is near the doorway to the dining room. Do you think it is too close? It doesn't get much traffic except when we are entertaining.

A few general things...

1. First, aisles are measured counter edge-to-counter edge. You appear to be measuring cabinet-to-cabinet.

   Counters extend 1.5" beyond the cabinets...to cover the doors that extend approx 1" past the cabinet + 1/2" or so farther to direct spills away from cabinet doors & drawer fronts.

   If you are measuring cabinet-to-cabinet, then your aisles are narrower than you think. E.g., the aisle b/w the left wall run and island will be 3" narrower...39"; the aisle b/w the island and cabinet will be 1" less (to account for the doors on the 9" or 12" deep cabinet).

   (Unless you are getting inset cabinets...then the counter overhang can be as little as 1/2" to 3/4"...just enough to direct spills away from the cabinet face/doors/drawer fronts.)

Island depth...keeping in mind the counter overhangs mentioned above, a 36" deep island w/a decorative door or end panel on the back of the cabinets (1" deep/thick, installed) will only have a 9.5" overhang, not 12" (36" - 1.5" - 24" - 1" = 9.5"); or 12.5", not 15".

Your island should be at least 41.5" deep (1.5" overhang + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door panel + 15" seating overhang). It doesn't need to be any deeper unless you want it deeper.
If you are not planning to eat your meals at the island, a 15" overhang should be fine. I would not go with 18" since you can definitely use those 3" in your aisles. However, if you plan to use island seating for any length of time, 15" may be too shallow if anyone is tall or has long legs. We have a 15" overhang and while it is fine for me (5'10") and my DD (5'11"), it's too shallow for my DH (6'5") and DS (6'6"). They're OK with sitting at the peninsula for short periods, but not for very long. (We have friends w/a 12" overhang, and neither my DS nor my DH will sit at it at all...it's far too shallow for them. Even I won't sit there for long b/c I have to either sit sideways and twist to face the kitchen or straddle the cabinets, which is not very comfortable over time. I usually end up standing...it's more comfortable!)
Aisle/walkway behind island...if there is just a wall behind the seats, 45" should be OK behind seating, but realize you may have to squeeze a bit to get through the aisle if someone is sitting at the island.

However, if you have cabinets or appliances behind the seating, you should have a minimum of 54" b/w the island and the deepest item behind the seating (i.e., the item that sticks out the farthest, e.g., an appliance's handle, if you had an appliance on that wall).

If there is also a working counter or an oven or range behind the seating, then 60" is much better.

Live_Wire_Oak has a good point about hot appetizers!
I don't think you gain anything by putting the cooktop in the island & island cooktops are more difficult and more expensive to vent. I recommend at least 24" b/w the cooktop and the "bottom" end of the island...12" is definitely too narrow a space for both safety and work/landing space. BTW...kudos for not putting seating directly behind the cooktop!
Where does the doorway on the "bottom" wall lead? I'm wondering if it might be better to put refrigerator where the ovens are and the ovens where the refrigerator is...both locations have pluses & minuses for each appliance...

"you can tape it off in the driveway or backyard"

Actually, that doesn't work very well. You need to not only have the space marked, but you also need to get a feel for a space....and that means tall walls and life-size cabinets in the space and working in the space for a few days to see how it is in the long run, not just for a few minutes. Driveways and backyards are wide open and do not give you the real sense/feel of a room with walls and cabinets.

It's better to use boxes approx the size of the cabinets and arrange them somewhere where you have walls, etc. that will enclose the space the same as you will have in the kitchen.

HTH!

Do you entertain a lot? I think that needs to be taken into account with your planing. If so than I agree you need to keep these aisles more open. However, as an example, we entertain in a large way (30+) no more than a half dozen times a year so traffic on the other 350+ day's is just the four of us.

Thanks for the comments.

In answer to the questions. I don't do much formal or large entertaining but my parents, brother, his wife, and their kids are over on many Sunday's for dinner. Other weekend nights, it might be another couple and their kids. Nothing very formal, but we cook alot. It's only every couple of years that we host a larger event.

I think buehl is right that I am measuring cabinet to cabinet. Bummer--even less width than I thought. I think I need to give up on the cabinet behind the island and just leave the space open. Our kitchen now is crowded and I don't want to recreate the problem in the new kitchen.

The bottom wall connects to the dining room.

The possible advantages to the cooktop on the island are 3 feet more of upper cabinets (now we only have about 10-11) and the ability to be more social while I'm cooking. But I do worry about people sitting on the island getting splashed, etc. I think with the pantry, we will be OK with storage.

Would you all put the prep sink on the refrigerator side of the island near the cooktop or near the pantry?

Look at this shallow hutch! Maybe 6 inches?

[

[traditional kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by atlanta kitchen and bath Teri Turan

"...advantages to the cooktop on the island ... the ability to be more social while I'm cooking..."

Well, Kitchen studies have shown that only 10% of the time spent & work done in the kitchen is spent cooking while 70% is spent prepping. So, if you wish to socialize, it makes more sense to put the Prep Zone in the island...with a prep sink.

As for more storage, do you have a walk-in pantry now? If not, you will be surprised how much fits in this type of pantry! You have access to the entire height...floor to ceiling, storage is more flexible than cabinet storage, and you can have shallow shelves so things do not get lost in them. I recommend shelves 12" to 15" deep, no deeper...which you have (they look 12" deep, a nice depth.) I store just about all my food in my pantry b/c the pantry is so accessible to the kitchen (as is yours)...and mine is smaller than yours (only 41" x 51" or so). I like being able to see "everything" in one place and all at one time! That leaves plenty of room for pots & pans, dishes, etc. in the cabinets. I do store often-used spices & similar in 6" filler pullouts flanking my cooktop, but that's about it...all other food is in my corner pantry.

I like Option 1, including the general location of the prep sink. I might move it to the left 12" to 15" to give you "wiggle room" on the right side of the sink (to help prevent things from falling off the edge) and to give you island landing space for the refrigerator.

I would put the DW on the right side of the cleanup sink (the sink that's under the window), though, so it's not in the way of someone working at the island and so you can have two nice Prep Zones - on the island (primary) and b/w the cooktop & cleanup sink.

I would put a trash pullout either to the left of the prep sink or to the left of the cleanup sink. Either location will be easily accessed from the Prep Zone (most important), Cooking Zone, and Cleanup Zone. My preference would be in the island next to the prep sink so I could just sweep scarps/trash into the bins.

If the aisles can remain substantial (at least 42"), I would consider extending the island down toward the refrigerator and pantry to bring the refrigerator closer to its landing space on the island and the prep sink closer to the cooktop.

Your Option 1:

My island has the cooktop in the middle and 36" of prep space on either side. It is just over 9 feet long because our stove is 37.5" wide. We have cabs on the back half instead of seating. We used wall cabs to make the back of the island and to come up high enough to cover the high back of our stove. That added 6 cabs to the back of the island (3 over 3). It is the alternate pantry to our wide tall pullout cab.
Overall, our island is the size you are proposing and it does not feel skinny. Since the back 1 foot of our island is at a higher level, it may even look skinnier than your one level setup. I like how I can feel not closed in and out of the action and can see over the back, but from the rooms on the other side one cannot see the counters I am working on. It looks neater that way. With an open floor plan, it helps to figure out sight lines.

Thanks so much to everyone for their suggestions. We are planning the dishwasher to the right of the main sink. Not sure about the trash. Plans have it to the left of the main sink, but I could move in in the island. I moved the prep sink to the far side of the island and limited the seating to one side. Also made the island 45 inches wide leaving a 48 inch aisle.

Should I add a butcher block inset near the prep sink?

How do you get the picture to show instead of being a link?

Here is a link that might be useful:

img src=" http://s1118.photobucket.com/albums/k608/Shareher/?action=view&current=option1tweaked.jpg";

I see you needed a final layout by Monday, so this may be too late. I skimmed the responses above, so this may have already been suggested. Do you really need three places to sit and eat? Eliminating the table at the end of the room would allow the island to be extended on the seating end to the end of the end of the counter run. Six could sit at the island "table" end" and it would give you more counter space on the sink side. We have the DW between the sink and a dish hutch with 36" on either side of the sink. Rather than a table next to the island there is conversational seating at the end of the room. Everyone loves being "in the kitchen" while not being under foot. The cooks work at the island, cooktop and sinks, and the chatters are in the conversation end. This arrangement accommodates 12 people comfortably.

I also respectfully disagree with the aisle width requirements. The "work" aisle in our kitchen is 36"-between island prep and cooktop. Those who prep are at the refrigerator end where there is 41 inches between the countertop and refrigerator handles. The cleanup side is 41". Just another option. I hope you have a layout you love before you place the order. If not, wait until you are happy.

Here is a link that might be useful: More pictures and details about the island

Cotehele, I so love your kitchen - never get tired of seeing it! I was thinking the same thing about table end, it does look like there is a bit of room on that end of the island.

We do have some room on the table end. I prefer to sit and eat at a table rather than the counter. I am mainly including the island seating so that when my extended family or friends are over, they can sit around and visit while we cook. My slab for the island is only 113 inches long, so I would have to seam the island to extend it. Still, it's something to consider.

I don't have to have all the cabinetry figured out, but the plumber and electrician are coming this week, so I need to know the location of sinks, ovens, etc. I can still make modifications to the cabinets and counters in the weeks ahead.

Cotehele--do you leave the cutting board on the island? what are your thoughts on doing a butcher block insert into the island. Your kitchen is beautiful.

The issues, I see, to having a butcher block insert into a surface are that (1) you are "stuck" with it always being there and (2) it cannot (usually) be moved if it's needed elsewhere. Granted, the second issue is easily taken care of by having multiple cutting boards, but the first is still an issue...at least it would be for me.

I like the versatility of being able to do anything on any part of my counters w/o worrying about having to "treat" a portion of them differently or not being able to use a portion of them for some tasks.

As to a 36" aisle - that can work if (1) there is no traffic in the aisle (through the kitchen from one room to the next OR passing through the aisle when moving b/w two work zones) and (2) only one person is working in the space (side-by-side at the same counter might be OK with a 36" aisle, but butt-to-butt/working across from each other would be an issue).

Cotehele, I have a question about your stools & island height. Your island appears to be lowered, are you using stools for counter-height seating? If so, how are they working out? Is there an issue with room b/w the seat of the stool and the bottom of the island? Is there enough room to sit there w/o the top of a person's legs rubbing up against the bottom of the island frame? Your kitchen looks very nice, btw (I don't know if I've told you that before!)

Buehl, thanks for your response. So you think my prep sink should be centered on the ens of the island or in the corner closest to the pantry?

Shareher-Thanks! I see now why you need island seating. It was just an idea anyway. The cutting board is sitting on the island most of the time. It slides around easily, and is easy to use when there are multiple cooks. It also fits over the sink to cover the dirty dishes and over most of the cooktop when needed for serving. I like the versatility so I don't think I would like a permanent cutting board in the countertop.

Buehl, it's funny you ask about island height. I didn't realize how much the floor sloped from one end of the room to the other when we were in the design phase. The prep end is 32'' and the table end is 33'' from the floor. There is a 3'' apron around the table end. Our chairs are Crate and Barrel Counter Stool. 24"H seat; 15.75"Wx16"Dx36.5"H There is clearance for legs under the island without rubbing. We don't use cushions, though. Thanks for the compliment! You may have said that before. The passage of time has faded my memory of such things. :-)

cjc123-thank you!

Any thoughts on the best location for the prep sink?

I like the seating arrangement you have on this version. Everyone faces each other, making for comfortable conversation. It also keeps them out of your prep space.

I think that the prep sink on the corner across from the pantry makes sense. It allows you to stand there and prep facing people sitting at the island. (You know they'll be there!) If you have a helper, they could be standing on the adjacent side and have use of the sink as well. There's a natural progression from fridge/pantry, to sink, to prep space, to stove. You could put a trash pullout there as well. Prepping generates a lot of trash, and a trash pullout there makes sense.

A larger pullout can be installed by the cleanup sink for plate scraping, general garbage and recycling.

cj

cotehele,

You have a gorgeous kitchen! I am planning on having a long, thin island as well.

What are your dimensions for your island (length, width, etc)?

Thanks!

Hi, I may have missed something but can 2 people fit on the end that is 3' 9"?
I thought 4 feet would be the minimum? Just asking : )

I have an island countertop that is 8 feet in length and 30 inches in width. I am not at home to send pics but will try to share from previous posts.
What we did was place 18 inch drawers on one side of the island and left about 11-12 inch overhang for stools.
We have not purchased stools but will be getting backless for ease of stowing for when we have a lot of company and people prefer to stand. On the stool side we have a 12 inch and 96 inch panty..let me tell you how many things fit in this pantry..almost everything I purchase at the grocery store and I dont have to dig for things ...it is a wonderful thing!

I have an island countertop that is 8 feet in length and 30 inches in width. I am not at home to send pics but will try to share from previous posts.
What we did was place 18 inch drawers on one side of the island and left about 11-12 inch overhang for stools.
We have not purchased stools but will be getting backless for ease of stowing for when we have a lot of company and people prefer to stand. On the stool side we have a 12 inch and 96 inch panty..let me tell you how many things fit in this pantry..almost everything I purchase at the grocery store and I dont have to di for things ...it is a wonderful thing!

Check out my photobucket page: HTH

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af233/flatman/Kitchen%20Oct%202011/?action=view&current=289ec471.png