A few more changes...bay window in dining area, access to back deck and the see-through fireplace. You might lose room for the stools (except maybe one on the end) but you have plenty of seating at the table.

With the access to the deck from the kitchen, you could leave garden/plants around the porch/family room. It might be nice to have matching 'single' French doors to the outside and to the mudroom.

Another idea might be to use area rugs (in lavender) on wood or tile floors...which will make it easier to have the mudroom off to the side...and also define the seating areas. Hope this helps :) {{gwi:2138455}}From Home floor plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Jan 6, 15 at 20:33

I'm confused about the dimensions of the kitchen. Is it 12' or 14' from the cooktop wall to the short wall with window next to the fridge? Definetely looks much wider than 12' in KD's drawing.

Anyway, if you go with KD's layout, how would it be if you swapped the fridge and the DO and add a sink to the island?

I'm not sure how wide your aislesaround the island are, but I think you can benefit more from a rectangular island. You can then have drawers that would be much more useful than the 12" end cabinets. (I recommend drawers everywhere).

If your DR furniture arrangement permits you can consider shallow cabs b/w the mudroom and bedroom doors (command center+ storage).

I don't see much in the line of measurements in pic 1. And I can only read a few things that aren't typed on it, like - garage, south, patio north, kitchen table, I think at the bay window it says 'bench seat' and the CLs. That's it I think.

Thanks for the input Sena. The actual kitchen width wall to wall is 14' 6". Taking out 24" for the cabinets on the cooking side, 12" for the fridge and 54" for the island, I calculate that the aisles are about 42" wide. Is that wide enough for a rectangular shape? I've read elsewhere that the triangular corners look nice, but are less practical than a rectangular shape.

I definitely want to add a sink to the island. Would it make sense to put it directly across from the rangetop?

If I swapped the fridge and ovens, wouldn't that break up the cooking zone? As I see it, the advantage of the current fridge placement is that it keeps people going there for a soda or ice away from the cooking area. It also gives me the option of getting a full depth or counter depth model. The disadvantage of this placement is that you have to walk across the kitchen every time you need something from the fridge while cooking.

The contractor had initially suggested some shallow pantry storage along the wall between the mudroom entrance and the bedroom hallway. Our concern is that our current table is 80" long, so there might not be much room for traffic coming through. There's nothing special about the table we have (it's just a solid pine table from This End Up that I bought when I moved into the house) and we could always go with something smaller, but we wanted to try this first to see how it works.

We are thinking of putting a small desk along that wall though near the mudroom entrance for a command center though. There's a strip of baseboard heat there, but hopefully a desk won't interfere with it too much.

Desertsteph,

I don't have actual detailed plans of the house as it exists now, so I tried to create a rough approximation of how things are laid out using an Excel spreadsheet. It's not very good, but I figured I could post something quicker that way than if I took the time to learn a layout package more suited to the task.

I think you deciphered most of my notations correctly. The only other thing is that I wrote notes that we're using the original linen closet (across from the bathroom) as a pantry due to lack of storage space, and we're using the original coat closet as a linen closet. We'll be losing the closet used as a pantry during the renovation and are looking for another place to put it.

If you'd like actual detailed measurements of any particular room, let me know and I'll post them. There are detailed measurements in pic 2, but they may be blurry. I'd be happy to repost this as well.

If you use cooktop and then the oven or vice versa in preping a meal, then having them at different parts of the kitchen may not work for you. For me, having the fridge near the sink and cooktop is more useful, that's why I suggested that change. I assumed the first cab (DR side) is the ovens, so having the fridge there would still prevent anyone coming to get something from fridge from going too deep into your cooking zone.

As to island, I think 48" instead of 54 can be considered so you can add 3" to each aisle. With 66 lenght you can have 4x24" + 2x18" cabs (or some other combination) instead of 3x30" + 4x12" end cabs, which I think would be more efficient and no great loss in storage.

"quicker that way than if I took the time to learn a layout package more suited to the task."

no need to have or learn a layout pkg. Just draw it to scale on graph paper. Mark measurements for all walls, aisles, doorways, windows, halls etc. and give width of appls - fridge, stove, sink, island, table, etc.

you can print out a sheet of graph paper from internet. Use a ruler and pen/pencil. dark enough and clear enough to be read. give graph code - 1 sq = 1' or ?

Sena, we do use the cooktop and oven at the same time, so I think it makes sense to leave the ovens where they are. The plan makes the kitchen look a lot bigger than it actually is. While it looks like a long distance from the cooktop to the fridge, it's actually just 5 steps away.

I had forgotten about the lips on the counters when I said the aisles between the counter and island were about 42" wide. I think it will actually be closer to 38 - 39". What is the ideal distance? It looks like the designer has a 6" space between the cabinets on the island. I'm not sure if this is necessary (perhaps for electrical wiring) or not. I can ask him if we can reclaim some of this space as well.

Thanks for your input.

Sena, we do use the cooktop and oven at the same time, so I think it makes sense to leave the ovens where they are. The plan makes the kitchen look a lot bigger than it actually is. While it looks like a long distance from the cooktop to the fridge, it's actually just 5 steps away.

I had forgotten about the lips on the counters when I said the aisles between the counter and island were about 42" wide. I think it will actually be closer to 38 - 39". What is the ideal distance? It looks like the designer has a 6" space between the cabinets on the island. I'm not sure if this is necessary (perhaps for electrical wiring) or not. I can ask him if we can reclaim some of this space as well.

Thanks for your input.

Lavender lass and I think alike. My first thought was to move the kitchen to the current LR, since you're moving plumbing anyway. You get your sunny bay window office space back, you get a LR that will see more use ( I love a table in a LR where you can work, play games, do puzzles while watching a movie) kitchen odors and grease stay in the kitchen. And the porch becomes a "keeping room", you could even have the dining table there.

A kitchen on that side could be the galley discussed at the top, with one long wall and a Long Island (I cannot get the autocorrect to Not capitalize that!) and then you could have sliders to the patio.

And, while the work is going on, you can still use the current kitchen !! There's a lot to be said for that :)

I like lavender lass's plan pretty well. The one spot that seems awkward is the hall to the bathroom between the kitchen and living room. Would you consider reconfiguring the triangle shaped bedroom into a bathroom and making the living room larger? This would give you a chance to get rid of the angled hall and do a nice mudroom. (Talk about project creep...!)

Thank you both...as for the hall bathroom, I was thinking of something similar to Sarah Richardson's farmhouse entry/powder room style. Maybe without the red doors :)
{{gwi:2138456}}From Home pictures
{{gwi:2138457}}From Home pictures

desertsteph, sorry for the delay in posting this. I was having a lot of problems drawing a current layout with graph paper, so I copied the outline of the contractor's plan and tried to draw the current layout in to scale. Let me know if anything is unclear or if any measurements are missing.

{{gwi:2138458}}

Dear lavender_lass, bpathome & Laughable,

I really like the idea of moving the kitchen to the dining room and turning the porch either into a keeping room or conservatory-style dining area. With a big enough budget, I think it could be something really spectacular and I could also fix all of the other problems this design would create. After thinking this through though, I don't think it would work on my budget due to the following issues:

- The fireplace only has a small layer of bricks around it and the rest is covered by wood paneling. I believe the rest of it is simple cement block.

I'll check with my contractor, but I don't think it could be made into a large pass-through type fireplace without knocking down the existing fireplace/chimney and building a new one from scratch.

- We currently use the porch as a family room and watch tv there. We'd need a spot to put a similar type room.

- In the current dining area, the distance from the wall adjoining the bathroom to the bedroom hallway is about 10 1/2' long. There's really not enough room there to make it into a proper living room. laughable's suggestion of moving the bathroom to the small bedroom is a good one, but we need all 3 bedrooms. I've thought about making the bedroom wing a bit bigger anyway, but I spoke with the town health inspector yesterday and he told me that I'd need to relocate part of my septic system if I went back more than 4 or 5 feet. It's something to think about in the future, but the whole project would be a bit more than we could handle right now.

- Taking groceries in from the car would entail a walk across the living room into the kitchen on the other side of the house.

- Finally (and maybe most importantly), I often forget to take my shoes off when entering the house from the mudroom and track dirt and/or snow into the kitchen. Usually I notice this before I leave the kitchen, so the mess is somewhat contained, but it still upsets my wife. If I started tracking dirt across the living room and into the new kitchen, she might consider it grounds for divorce!

So I think it's best to leave the new kitchen on the same side of the house and adjacent to the mudroom. What do you think of the layout in general? I'd appreciate any other suggestions you might have.

This post was edited by greasetrap on Sat, Jan 10, 15 at 19:55

We can't have you jeopardizing your marriage...between the dirt and the extra expense :)

But...I would NOT move the table. You love the bay window and table, so work around it. Can you move the door to the mudroom down? Then either solid or glass, it will give you more room for the kitchen's main work wall.

Add a big island, with sink and dishwasher...and some stools. You can still access the slider (and the bedroom wing) but don't lose the table.

The wall to the hallway could be opened up or left, depending on your preference and how much you want to separate the kitchen from the hall and bathroom.

Hope this helps :) {{gwi:2138459}}From Kitchen plans

Thanks lavender. I think the real problem is that I need to learn to take my shoes off when I enter the house.

The entrance doorway from the mudroom could definitely be moved towards the front of the house if the fridge were moved. Let me think about this a bit.

To be honest, the view out of the back is probably a bit better than out the front (back is a large yard with 85 acres of forest behind it, front is close to a private road that we share and has a view of a neighbors house that has become a bit dilapidated). The heat from the sun can become a bit unbearable too, at times, in the bay window, but it is nice to sit there on a cold winter morning (like today).

The thing I always liked about the bay window was the wood paneling on the walls (like that in the living room photo above) with the solid pine table. While my wife likes the wooden walls in the living room, she hates it in the kitchen. So I guess things are going to change one way or another.

3 bedrooms. Got it! If the view is really nice across the patio, how about turning the interesting shaped room into the study, and the study alcove into the third bedroom. You could put a nice big window looking out across the patio, and do some but ins and or shelves along the wall adjoining the bath. In a few years your daughter will likely be on the computer more, so it might be good to think ahead to a safe place for her to do her work and play. In view of mom and dad's watchful eyes. So you could lose the angled wall all together, or give the new study french doors.

L.L. is on a roll! This new plan embraces the front and back views while retaining the table in the bay area. Nice! Would you be ok w just 1 sink? And where would the pantry be?

It's no wonder you and your wife are struggling to work together in your current layout. Frankly, it's a disaster. Have you read Marcolo's "ice, water, stone, fire" thread for planning a kitchen? It's too bad your former owner didn't read it. : P your most valuable piece of work space is only 24" wide with a d.w. under it.

Laughable- I only have one sink (LOL) but most people's large kitchens work well with a prep sink. I think I'd rather have a big vintage sink, like Laura Calder :)
{{gwi:2133585}}From Home pictures

As for the pantry, if there was room...I'd like to steal some space by the stairs. Any way to make that garage a few feet wider??? :) {{gwi:2138460}}From Kitchen plans

Also...how about a climbing rose around the bay window? It will give you a lot of beauty and distract you from the view across the road. Something that has a lovely fragrance, in case the window opens.

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Thu, Jan 8, 15 at 23:03

I like lavenderlass' version with the kitchen in the middle and keeping the dining area in the bay (I'd rather sit and eat in a southern facing location in a cold climate than northern), but in all of these design versions there is a lot of wasted space in the entry and all of them requires you to walk through the entry to get to the other side of the house. I made an attempt at fixing thatÃÂ with providing a walk way and also use up the empty space to provide storage.ÃÂ I named it pantry and it would work great for non-staples, kitchen stuff not used every day, and other storage as well. ff not as a pantry - maybe toy storage ;)

Plus making that a hallway closes off the bathroom some and makes it feel a little more private and not so open to all and dining area is further away from any bathroom noises with the kitchen in that area so nobody has to sit and eat and hear somebody doing their business in the bathroom. As a guest I would feel a bit uncomfortable with the current dining right there.

The kitchen in lavenders location also makes it easy for grilling to just walk out with what you have or need and not have to walk across the whole house. I have that setup and wish mine were reversed as it just would make it easier to not have to walk around people in the dining area and carrying stuff or just easily run in and get something I forgot.

It also looks like if you wanted a more formal dining area you could set it up on one end of the living room since the room is so long and that goes with no matter how you arrange it on the right side. Ie you can still have a nice and non-open eating area to the kitchen if you wished so don't worry about loosing a dining room.

{{gwi:2138461}}

Lyfia- Great idea! The bathroom is more private and you have a foyer space, for a hall table or bench and hooks, as you walk in. And, a second pathway between kitchen and living room! Well done :)

I like the pantry in that location, too, Lyfia. I'm wondering if it might make sense to split the storage space so that approx. half could be allocated to pantry opening toward the bathroom, and the other half could be a closet facing the front door. Even if you don't need the coat space, it would be great for toy parking, office supplies, a place for gifts and wrappings, craft supplies, etc. : )

Without measurements, it's hard for me to say this definitively, but I'd consider lengthening the island, at least toward the slider, and maybe a bit more toward the table as long as it didn't pinch the space. With 2 cooks working in the kitchen, the extra counter space and storage would be helpful.

No, LL, I agree with you that 2 sinks are surely a luxury and not a necessity, especially if a cook is flying solo. : ) But, with the concerns of the OP wanting to share the work space with his wife, an extra sink might be helpful to them. I know that when my kids and I are working together in the kitchen (which happens often) that the current single sink is an area where the work tasks tend to clog up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's Marcolo's Thread on Ice, Water, Stone, Fire.

I like LL's layout and lyfia's pantry (maybe opening can be on the other side). But I'm vicious, I want to stop OP and especially his DD at the mudroom door, so they won't pass b/w the island and cooktop counter to go to the bedrooms, and therefore suggest a peninsula.

I added a cab to function as drop zone on the left of mudroom door, so the peninsula can stay free of clutter. I'm not sure how much room there'd be on that wall, but added a shallow cab(brooms/toys/books?) facing north, b/w the DO and bedroom hall so DO won't be right next to the entry. But even if it's next to entry I believe the angled corridor would prevent accidents.

Have the pantry in the entry hall next to bath. Since I extended the wall on the bath side pantry is not as large as lyfia's.

Cleanup sink is against the wall, but very close to the sliders, so I guess won't be very distressing (I personally don't mind such a sink as I prefer uppers to lower cabs, even though drawers make them much easier to use).

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{{gwi:2138463}}

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Wow! Every iteration of this gets better and better. Thanks so much everyone for your help.

I really like Sena's latest version. The pantry is much bigger than the closet we're currently using for a pantry. What do you think of using Sena's pantry space for a washer & dryer instead (they're currently in the basement)? The shallow cabinet by the dining table could serve as the command center my wife has been asking for.

The 2 concerns I still have about this plan are as follows:

- I'm a bit concerned about the kitchen being so close to the bedrooms. Even with a strong range hood it seems like odors will drift back there and I'm not sure if there will be problems with the traffic flow.

- I'd prefer a full-depth fridge to a counter depth one. This isn't a major issue - it's just because I'm cheap. I don't like the idea of paying thousands more for less fridge space. We do have another fridge and chest freezer in the basement though, so I could probably get over this in time.

On a related note, I've been playing with the idea of making the bedrooms and mudroom bigger, adding a closet to the mudroom and getting rid of some of the weird angles in the small bedrooms.

What do you think of this plan:

{{gwi:2138465}}

What I did basically was to straighten out the bedroom hallway, reclaim some space from the garage, lengthen the garage and move out a wall on the medium-sized bedroom.

The only major problem with this is that we'd lose the large, irregularly-shaped cedar closet off of the medium-sized bedroom (which is currently full of clothes and other stuff).

The longer-term plan would be to push out the back wall of the bedroom wing by 10' or so and create a true master suite with 2 walk-in closets. At that point, the current master bedroom closets could be turned around and used in the other bedroom. This part of the project would involve relocating part of the septic system, so it would probably have to wait until we've recovered financially from all of the other work done.

Our master bedroom is at the top of stairs that start in our kitchen. Unless someone forgets to turn on our cheap vented hood, there are no odors. If someone does forget to turn it on, its still not bad.

If you get a decent vented hood and use it, odors will not be an issue.

You can add a door to the bedroom hall after the pantry door and keep it closed when you're cooking.

Thanks Sena. Do you know the dimensions of the pantry you put in? I'm just trying to figure out if a washer & dryer would fit in there.

I assumed it can be as deep as the linen closet. KD has 34" for linen closet including the wall, but if you look at KD's layout there is still some more space to use b/w the closet wall to the bath door.

Thanks Sena. I had been confused by some of the dimensions, but I see where my mistake was. Could you tell me the length of that small privacy wall by the bathroom? That wall looks angled in your second, layout, but straight in the first. I assume it's straight, is that correct? Would it be possible to post a 2D view?

Thanks.

The wall is straight and 26" long.

Here it is in 2D. I wrote all the cab/appliance sizes I used. I couldn't find the dimensions of the right side wall, so just made some assumptions there.

{{gwi:2138466}}

You've been given some great ideas that I don't believe I can improve upon. However, the fact that your only access to the bedrooms is through the kitchen bugs me. How about this?

{{gwi:2138467}}

You could make that bathroom a bit narrower and have a hall direct to the bedrooms re-routing at least some of the congestion. If you really need those few feet for the bathroom, steal them from the garage.

It was quite late last night (in my time zone) when I posted the 2D with dimensions. Now that I looked at it again this morning I noticed that the diagonal distance b/w the edge of the fridge and the edge of the peninsula is not correct.

Although you only wanted to know the lenght of the privacy wall for the bath, since I included other dimensions in my previous post I just want to add that the diagonal distance would be around 40 not 34.3.

I used assumed fridge depth as 36, whereas w/o handles it would probably be around 34 at the edge and the lenght of the peninsula would also be less than 96 because of the rounded edge.

Thanks Sena & funkycamper. 34" did seem a bit too small to me. Are you calculating this based on a full-depth fridge? If space gets too tight, I could always put in a counter depth to gain a bit of extra space.

I've been playing with funky camper's suggestion to move the bedroom access. What do you think of turning the mud room into a sitting area that has the basement stairs and a hallway to the bedrooms? The current bedroom hallway could be closed off , the cabinets moved down and the peninsula replaced with a diagonal island between the 2 rows of cabinets.

I'm not sure if this would work or not. It might give more kitchen space, but at the expense of making kind of a weird traffic flow to the bedroom.

In the plan you posted on friday at 16:08, I would put the laundry room where the pantry is. To keep laundry closer to bedrooms.

Or, if you add a hallway as funkycamper suggested (great idea!), you can put a laundry "closet" in the mudroom, on the garage wall. Again, closer to the bedrooms than on the other side of the kitchen.

I have a 36" deep fridge in the drawing, but when calculating the distance from the edge of the fridge to the edge of the peninsula I used 34", thinking that handles (2") would be in the front, not at the edge of the fridge. But I'm no expert so I'd trust you'd check it with your KD.

I like the new bedroom hall suggested by funkycamper, but not sure about turning the mudroom to a new sitting area and closing the present bedroom halway. I also don't think you'll be able to fit 2 rows of cabinets and an island in the current DR.

I've been playing with sena's, funkycamper's and elizardbethday's suggestions, and would appreciate any feedback on the following:

{{gwi:2138468}}

I like funky camper's suggestion about the bedroom hallway, but as a practical matter there's only 3 of us, and everyone would go through the kitchen to get there. I also thought it was a bit odd to access the bedrooms from the mud room. So I tried closing off the current bedroom hallway, shifted the cooking zone down by about 4', and turned the current mudroom into a sitting area, from which the bedrooms are accessed.

I then created a new mudroom with washer/dryer in the existing garage space and further extended the garage. I also tried adding an island that could accommodate a largish sink for a prep area, but I suspect that sena is right when she says it won't fit. I need to take more detailed measurements.

I appreciate all of the great advice that everyone has been giving.

Maybe you can consider LL's island plan for the kitchen and still add a foot of privacy wall on the bathroom side.

Window for the sitting area and skylights for the bedroom hallway can be considered.

Do you use all three bedrooms? This is just an alternative that might not be quite as expensive. May or may not work in your situation...but thought I'd post it, since you have the basement :)

More storage upstairs...possibly with playroom and/or extra bedroom(s) downstairs? {{gwi:2138469}}From Home floor plans

Greasetrap, eliminating the hallway from the kitchen opens up so many great possibilities now that it isn't a traffic corridor. I don't think you'll ever regret making that change.

I think you should eliminate the island and extend each kitchen wall down a bit farther instead, making a nice wide galley kitchen. This would create a nice open space between the cooking area and built-in window banquette with nothing blocking passage through that area to sitting area and hall.

In fact, I would eliminate that short little stub of wall between table and sitting area so the sitting area is more part of the kitchen area.

Oh, I think that change of traffic patterns will yield many happy results. Much better!

Lavender, thanks for the suggestion. Something like that might be a possibility in the future, but not at the moment. I need all 3 bedrooms and adding more space at the back of the house would require relocating part of my septic system.

I tried to look at the dimensions of the earlier plan I posted and I came up with this:

{{gwi:2138470}}

I'm not having much luck learning any of the free online design tools, so I've been doing this in Excel. Sorry if it looks a bit weird.

I like the idea of an island with a biggish prep sink that is separate from the cooking and wash up zones. I get the impression that people don't think the island or sitting area would work well in this space though. I'd appreciate hearing any critiques that others might have.

Here's a version without the gridlines that might be a bit easier to see:

{{gwi:2138471}}

The island only works if you only want to sit on one side of the table. There is no room for people to sit at the table and still have walking around room.

Here are the recommended minimum clearances:
{{gwi:2135518}}

Note that the people in the drawing are seated close up to the table. I don't know about you but I know I'm only pulled up close if I'm actually eating a meal. if I'm having a snack, sitting there reading the paper with a cuppa joe, or just to visit with someone, I'm often sitting with my chair at an angle and such. So, really, I would add at least 12" to those minimums for comfortable clearances.

If that corridor wasn't going to be a high-traffic area, you could get by with less clearance. But that is a main corridor. You need to keep the clearances as wide as possible or I think you'll regret all the congestion issues this will cause.

Efficient kitchens that are functional and easy to work in don't purposely have extra steps planned into them increasing the walking around needed to prepare a meal just to get a certain look. Islands don't work in every kitchen. Don't try to force it.

How about extending your kitchen all the way to the end of the wall? You could put your prep sink there and still have good space between prep sink and cooktop. 36" is the minimum recommended for counter between sink and cooktop so, to be honest, I don't think your kitchen is big enough for a separate oven/cooktop arrangement. And 36" cooktops are usually in larger kitchens. I just question whether you have the space for that? Are you avid chefs? Do you really need that big of a cooktop? Personally, I've cooked numerous big meals for large family gatherings, even catered a couple of small weddings, with a 30" range. No extra oven. Sure, an extra oven would have been handy but not a deal-breaker.

If you did a 30" range, you could gain the 30" or so counter space your losing for the wall oven. Then you could move the range down 30" or so closer to the window and have a good 60" or so of space between prep sink and range. This would give you a very functional layout.

Of course, if you want the second oven, you could just install it under the counter so you keep that counter space. I think you'll gain more from the extra counter space than you might realize.

I would consider extending the other side farther as well. Maybe 20-30". You could still access the pantry and it would give more elbow room for clean-up duties.

Just my 2 bits. I'm not an expert.

I didn't do any serious measuring since this rough drawing would leave the new sitting area quite isolated and would probably require a counterdepth fridge, but it may give you an island.

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What about eliminating the bathroom that's by the living room so that you could annex that space for your kitchen? Is two bathrooms enough for your 3 person family?

Thanks everyone for your feedback. You've convinced me that the island I proposed wouldn't work. I think there's enough space for it (as we rarely use the bench seat and keep the table pushed up against it most of the time), but I can see that it would be inefficient in terms of the number of steps required.

There are often times when we need 2 ovens and I'd like to be able to grill indoors (instead of freezing outside in the dark during the winter), so I would really like a 36" cooktop (for the grill, not for the 6 burners) and 2 ovens.

With respect to laughable's question, we won't need 3 full baths if we install another bathroom by the bedrooms (although it might come in handy when our in-laws visit or when our daughter is a teenager). I'd like to keep at least a half bath in the main house though, so we don't have to walk back to the bedrooms every time we need to use the bathroom. So the current bathroom could be cut back to a half bath to gain space, but there are 2 issues with that: we'd lose the pantry that sena has designed and we'd have to take out a skylight that was installed at great expense about 20 years ago.

So I think sena's original plan with the peninsula is the best. If we go this route, what do you think of the sitting area with bedroom access? Could any of you see yourselves actually using this room? Accessing the bedrooms through the kitchen is far from ideal, but it is doable. If we're creating a new room that is rarely used just for the purpose of accessing the bedrooms though, then it might not be worth it.

I think your first priority should be creating the hallway and getting the traffic flow out of the kitchen. Your kitchen will always be easier to work in and more pleasant without traffic going through there.

Your traffic might not be much now as your daughter is small. But just wait until she's old enough to have a posse of friends over, running in and out of the bedroom areas. Then you'll be really glad they're not constantly going through the kitchen. And it will be much safer, too.

I wouldn't use that sitting area either. I'd use it for storage.

{{gwi:2138475}}

This would allow you to keep your current planned pantry, next to living room, for an amazing amount of total storage. Or you could shorten that pantry wall so it's more open between living room and kitchen.

I wouldn't eliminate it as I do think you at least need a short privacy wall to make using the bathroom feel a bit more private. Even if people know that's where you're going, it just feels less icky if they can't actually see you going in/out the door and provides separation for any bathroom odors and such. And if the door is left open, you're not staring at the toilet.

Can you take out the wall between the mudroom & sitting area? Or the wall between the sitting area & kitchen table area?

I think you could play around with those areas and end up with a really awesome mudroom, laundry, and storage space. What walls need to stay and which can be re/moved?

Funkycamper, point taken about traffic when my daughter is a teenager. The proposed sitting area is my current small mudroom. There's a door at the front of the area now, but I envisaged putting a big window there, as it is southern facing. I thought the area could have maybe 2 chairs, a table and a bookcase to keep all of our cooking books. Maybe a command center as well.

Elizardbethday, the sitting area and mudroom space can be expanded easily, since I'm taking the space from the current garage and making the garage bigger. My contractor says that expanding the garage is cheap (although he hasn't defined what cheap means to him). I don't have any objections to making either room bigger, but I'm not crazy about the idea of combining them. To me a mudroom is a room that gets messy and dirty, and I wouldn't be crazy about having to see it every time I went to/from the bedrooms.

I would imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to take down the wall between the dining area and the new sitting area. That's the outside wall of the house (between the house and garage), but the amount of wall that would come down is small enough, that I would think it wouldn't be difficult to provide additional support.

One thing I forgot to mention is that the proposed new rooms (sitting area, mudroom, hallway to bedrooms, new bathroom, etc.) sit on the garage slab, which is 11" lower than the floors in the house. I don't think this is an unsurmountable issue.

If you might be here a long time, you might want to think about aging in place issues. It might be worth it to raise the flooring for the mudroom and sitting area/pantry/whatever that becomes. If your roofline is high enough for the ceiling to be high enough with a raised floor, I don't think the raised floor would add all that much more expense. Could be wrong, never done that. But if someone in the family has mobility issues in the future, it could be helpful to keep all living on one level as much as possible.

I think if you take out that short wall between dining/sitting area, and put a bookcase in there, it would be a nice spot and probably get more use. Even a short wall makes that space seem a bit cut-off from the rest of the room. At least on the floorplan. It may not seem like that in real life.

If you took out that wall, you could also consider wrapping your window seating around it into the sitting area as a sort of bridge between the two spaces. It would make for a very roomy banquette seating and could be quite charming if done right.

This isn't a crucial thing but our former home had a window seat in the dining room. I always wanted my husband to remove the top and put a hinge on it for storage. Other projects prevented him from ever getting to it but I would have really enjoyed having that storage. Friends have that and it's a great place for games so when the family sits around the table in the evenings, it's easy to grab a game and enjoy some family time. Or could be a good spot for things like gift-wrapping supplies, extra tablecloths or other items only used on special occasions, whatever.

Thanks funkycamper. I agree that the level should be raised to make things easier as we age. My idea was to remove as much of the wall as possible between the dining area and sitting area.