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Container Gardening
firewontquell

Questions about gritty mix

11 years ago

Hi folks,

I am a long time gardener but new to the world of gritty mixes, and I have a couple of questions:

1) I've read that Al suggests using 5-1-1 mix if the plant will be in a pot for a short period of time, but the gritty mix if the plant will be in the pot longer. The rational I've seen given most often is that the 5-1-1 mix is less expensive. However, I have some young plants that I expect will put on a lot of growth and that I will probably repot within a year or two. If the gritty mix is a BETTER mix, shouldn't I start in gritty mix and then just reuse the mix (plus some) when I repot in a better mix? Or is there some other reason why I would want to use 5-1-1?

2) I also read in a few places that you can pot up into a larger pot when you use gritty mix that you would with a soil mix. How much larger should I pot up? For example, if I had a plant in a 6" pot, I would generally pot up to 8". Should I go 10" or even larger with the gritty mix?

3) I have a large number of plants and plan to transition all/most of them over to the gritty mix. I've read that Al recommends putting scilla in 5-1-1, but I can't find information on other plants. I know that people advise putting succulents and citrus in gritty for sure. Would you recommend putting any of the following in 5-1-1 or a different mix other than gritty? List: snake plants, many varieties of ficus (including edible), cactus, christmas cactus, pilea, pitcher plants (esp with humidity concerns), and ferns. (I have a big staghorn in moss right now so wouldn't move that, but I have several smaller ferns such as rabbit's foot fern and birds nest fern that I could repot).

Thanks for all the help and sorry for the super specific questions!! Also, if anyone is in the Boston area and wants to swap or go on a run for gritty mix ingredients, I'd be super up for it!

Featured Answer
  • 11 years ago

    1) If the plant is eventually going to be grown in the gritty mix, I would probably start it in the gritty mix, but you can change back and forth later if you prefer.


    2) The reason it's so often repeated (w/o qualification) that you should only pot up a size at a time is because the person repeating the advice either doesn't understand how water behaves in soils or they're assuming you're using a soil that supports a lot of perched water, which would make the advice valid. Still, in order to let people know you understand what's being discussed, the advice should be offered with qualifications pertaining to what type of soil is being used. The limiting factor isn't the pot size, it's perched water. Smaller pots minimize the amount of PW a soil can hold and root congestion helps ensure the excess water is used faster. Since root congestion and perched water aren't exactly good for plants, how about providing a soil that does away with PW limitations and repot instead of potting up. Problem solved - plants happy - grower happy - grower's friends envious - how does it get any better? ;-) You can start a small cutting or a seed in a 55 gallon drum full of a well made gritty mix with no worries - if you want to.


    3) I've grown scilla in 5:1:1 and gritty mix and they just seem to like the 5:1:1 better - no idea why, because almost everything else likes the gritty mix better. I'd probably grow the hardy figs in 5:1:1 because they should be repotted every other year. Josh likes the 5:1:1 for Christmas cactus, and I don't grow it, so I'll defer to him on that ..... but if I WAS growing it, I'd probably put it in the gritty mix just to see how it does. I've grown a LOT of plants in the gritty mix that "can't be grown in the gritty mix". Someone told me AVs would never grow in it.

    From a cutting, grown outdoors

    Not a perfect plant, but I was only trying to satisfy my curiosity - not win a prize.


    Experiment for yourself. The ficus (other than carica), sans, arid cacti, and pilea will all do better in gritty.


    Al


    Comments (15)

    • 11 years ago

      great, thank you so much for all the feedback!! would the pitcher plants and ferns also be ok in gritty?

      going to pick up turface when I can find a way to get to anywhere that sells it!!

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    • 11 years ago

      i have ferns doing quite well in gritty mix. Well, as well as can be expected with 90f Santa Ana winds in March.


      idk anything about pitcher plants, but Turface and Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil are the same thing.

    • 11 years ago

      oh wow, I didn't know they were the same thing!! Are they actually identical in all ways?

    • 11 years ago
      last modified: 11 years ago

      hmm, it seems that product has been discontinued? it says on their website:

      Schultz now packaging for others like PondCare Aquatic Planting Media . Also Pond Planting Media from AquaScape is alluvial soil, that contains no peat moss or compost.

      Know if any of those products would work?

    • 11 years ago

      The pondcare stuff looks right on some pics and like DE in others. So I can't say for sure. Alluvial soil doesn't sound right at all.

    • 11 years ago

      Hmm, the pondcare stuff is listed as being a mix of Arcillite and Zeolite. Someone on this thread tried it but never posted back with results: (it's the post 4th from bottom): http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1759731/where-to-buy-turface-or-similar-product

      It does look like turface in that picture...

    • 11 years ago

      Napa oil dry, part no. 8822 as a substitute for turface.

    • 11 years ago

      Why not just use Turface - or Allsport from John Deere Landscapes - same product - lots of locations near Boston. Also check the list of other dealers in MA. There should be a few near you.

      John Deere Landscape

      Northeast Nursery

      Southern States

      • Westfield
        (804) 281-1000

      Pro Lawn Supply

      • Worcester
        (508) 754-0100

      Valley Green

      • Holyoke
        (413) 533-0726

      • Oxford
        (508) 987-0101

      • Wilmington
        (866) 830-5909

      Atlantic Golf & Turf

      • Turners Falls
        (413) 775 -3628

      Pennington Seed Co.

      • Taunton
        (508) 884-5443

      Al

    • 11 years ago

      Btw I mentioned the Schultz Aquatic stuff in case you found some post about pitcher plants and that medium bwing acceptable.

    • 11 years ago

      No question - what Schultz used to package as aquatic soil is Turface MVP. I still have a dozen or so 20 or 25 lb bags I bought right - from a pond supply outfit that went under.


      Al

    • 11 years ago
      last modified: 11 years ago

      Hsw - My understanding is basically that 5:1:1 is generally for annuals and gritty for perrenials. There is also a cost factor but 5:1:1 is simply more suitable for annuals, at least in part because it holds more water.. This is only a general rule - as Al shows above its even possible to grow an african violet in gritty mix, where it would actually prefer 5:1:1. Al, please correct me if I am wrong.

    • 11 years ago

      I've never tried AVs side by side in gritty and 5:1:1, so I can't say. They should be pretty easy and happy in the 5:1:1 though. If I wanted to grow the very best AV I could produce, and had to choose only one soil, I'm not sure which I'd choose. If I chose the 5:1:1, I think my decision would be influenced more by what everyone else uses (it's closer to media labeled "AV soils"), rather than what I already know works well for the plant. I think, if someone is trying for the first time in either the 5:1:1 or gritty mix, the 5:1:1 would be the easier choice, but I can't say one or the other has more potential.


      I think its pretty accurate to say 5:1:1 for annuals and gritty for perennials, as long as we know there will be some exceptions - particularly when we have fast-growing perennials or plants with naturally vigorous root systems; those, we might want to consider putting in the 5:1:1 mix - especially when a yearly full repot is in the plant's best interest.


      Al

    • 11 years ago

      All of the turface places are 30+ minutes outside of Boston and I don't have a car, but hoping to get out there soon. John Deere places are also only open on M-F which isn't super conducive for people who work weekdays!

      I'll plan on putting everything in the gritty except for the hardy fig-- including ferns and the pitcher plant. Is that right? Thanks!

    • 11 years ago
      last modified: 11 years ago

      oh, Agway has something called profield field conditioner that seems to be turface, and Agway is open on the weekends. Anyone have any experience with it? It is 25 dollars for a 50lb bag though.

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