..I found that very interesting, thank you...

Thank you! Of course, anyone with any insights or information, please feel free to add to the mix! Thanks!

If that photo of blooms is from McCoy's rose, I don't think it was R. brunonii.

The long "hedge" of roses planted in front of the Castro-Breen house in the San Juan Bautista Historic State Park (across from the old Mission) IS probably R. brunonii, and they don't look like that. They DO look a bit like "Secret Garden Musk Climber" (the Mystery Musk collected by Joyce Demits some years ago in the Sierra Foothills):

Interesting tale...hope the original rose can be found! Bob

Thanks! Me, too!

Kim -- Have you gone to Franchesi Park?

No ma'am, when do you want to meet out there? hehehe

I love these mysteries. Thanks Kim.

Kim, maybe you can go with a medium to room#221 :-)

Good hunting!

Wonderful story and I wish you much good luck on your quest!

Thanks, but no sir, no mediums, larges or smalls for me! LOL! I will leave what that might be to others and focus my hunts on the roses.

Kim -- I actually would meet you there. Not right now, though. Too busy playing "ketchup," and I bet you are, too. But when we visited there in a July time-frame, what I assume to have been R. gigantea was climbing some trees. (Of course, the SB Parks may since have eradicated it.)

Wonderful story. I look forward to seeing how it all turns out as more information as the investigation progresses.

I'd be happy to drive you up there Kim. But there was nothing rose growing other than Cecile and californica

Jeri had mentioned this in the past, so I have made two trips there to see what I could see. After the Tea and Jesusita fires I think the parks were cleaned up. There was nothing growing in the trees. In talking with friend who works with an outside company used to do a lot of the heavy parks work, it seems they were cleaned up with the thought the trees were the important plants. If a vine was in them and not blooming it probably went. But over all the park is in a horrible shape. No one wants to tear down or fix the house. Some group planted new plants on the banks but other than plant, it seems they got no care and all most all were dead. There was the evidence of the Mademoiselle Cecile Brunner that Jeri said once grew on the terrace, it was little more than the dead stump of what must have been quite a rose before it was cut to the ground.

It would be a fun day, meet at the rose garden by the mission and head up the hill. I would love to see where 'Montecito' once grew so I could drive by every now and then and see if anything pops up. And there is a preserve that has an old farmhouse I would like to visit and know what is growing on their fence. But that will have to wait til next spring and hopefully an open house day

Hey -- For next spring, let's keep that in mind!

Even though they cut things to the ground (RATS!) IF we get a wet winter, one never knows what might come back -- just as the double Ragged Robin has re-emerged in the SJB Honeymoon Cottage Hidden Garden. Worth a look, anyhow, and maybe lunch after? You could bring some others from the SBRS Heritage Rose Circle, maybe?

Sounds like fun! Plus, McCoy obtained his rose from Franchesi, so it could likely be the one which may still be growing there. If I can't find McCoy's plant's descendants, perhaps we might discover its momma? Who knows what else just may still be lurking there?

Let's pray for that wet winter to revive things.

We had to make a fast run to Pacific Sales to pick up ordered pieces for next week's kitchen work and decided to see where Franceschi Park was. Being a city park, it was open. We wandered a while as it was a gorgeous day! The only rose which was obvious was the Cl. Cecile Brunner planted along the fence below the home above. It wasn't until leaving, with dead batteries in the camera (of course!) I spotted it. What I believe IS the rose in question. Spring will potentially provide flowers, but it IS there right now and it is obviously not modern and definitely a huge plant. I didn't think to use the camera phone until all the way down the mountain and there was nothing in the car to take any material of it with, but it is there NOW. Kippy and Jeri, I will email you with the precise location so something may be collected now for propagation. When you see where it is, you will probably do the same face palm I did.

No, look, Kim -- I think this is very probably the tree-climber I saw there (blooming) a few years ago. Yes. We need to go.

You know, as you drive IN to the park, there is a row of eucalyptus trees on your left? It was climbing those trees. It they cut it down, I could see it doing whatever it had to do, to survive. It has to have roots from here to Kingdom Come.

If those trees were right on the road, they're gone now. But, a rose IS there...

I will report back tomorrow night.... After a visit to the park

The Life of Dr Francesco Franceschi and his Park

FWIW this the description of R. brunonii + La Mortola by GST:
Sorry for all the underlines :-)

Exciting. I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

What is the SBRS Heritage Rose Circle?

This has been on one of my "back burners" for some time. I've admired, and even used to grow Franceschi's Montecito after becoming completely awe struck by the enormous plant of it at The Huntington back in the mid eighties. If this isn't "Jack and the Beanstalk", I'm not sure what would be. Montecito is the seed parent of my Nessie. Southern California has Dr. Franceschi to thank for the tremendous wealth of tropical and semi tropical plants we have enjoyed as public plantings for more than a century. You will find me misspelling his name frequently. When you have Dr. Franceschi and Dr. Fineschi both rather larger than life and associated with over the top rose collections, it isn't difficult for the random number/word generator to go into over drive!

The rose world is incestuous, like any other small group of "enthusiasts". It is impossible to believe anyone of any means and intense interest would not have known others of his/her vintage. Burbank knew and socialized with Ford and Edison, both of whom owned homes in Florida where Pink Cracker has long been found. PC just happens to strongly resemble what the real Burbank rose should have looked like. It's an historic fact Burbank gave them both plants. McCoy was a man of means. He knew Franceschi and likely knew Tillitson. Tillitson likely knew, or knew of Franceschi. It would be a stretch to think Tillitson wasn't at least aware of Burbank, if he didn't know him. Finding these connectons helps determine what some of these roses might be and helps trace how they traveled from one place to the next.

A number of them moved to Southern California via Don Jarvis, who knew Tillitson and lived in the Upland area. He knew Jim Kirk, who was the rosarian at Rose Hills, the huge cemetery with the rose garden which has now become Dr. Cairns' baby. Kirk knew Forest Hieatt, who was the president of the Mens' Garden Club of Southern California as well as the San Diego Rose Society. The Men's Garden Club helped select many of the municipal plantings throughout the State. Many of which were Franceschi imports. Many others came to live here through William Hertrich's efforts as Henry Huntington's first Superintendent and Garden Curator. There is a whole, fascinating back story of the gentlemen and ladies who collected and moved these wonderful things around.

And when you confuse their names, don't forget that Franchesci's REAL name was FENZI. He came to the U.S. under an assumed name, running form some scandal or another. And, at least a few years ago, he had descendants, still in the Santa Barbara area.

Yes, he WAS larger than life.

When large climbers are treated as a hedge?

When I first went to look for this rose that Jeri said was climbing in the trees, the grounds had just been cleaned up. This hedge was now a 2'x2' scalped row of woody canes. I had noticed all the canes that were bent over and all the new suckers coming up in front behind and around the hedge. Today they are big and clearly not part of the hedge rose.

Next time Kim is in town, we need to run there and take a look as I is only a matter of time til this is cleaned up and retuned to its proper 2x2 cube form. It is in a high fire danger area and I think June 1st is the needs to be done by date but I hear th city is behind....

Kippy I rotated your photos. Houzz doesn't like vertical photos from phones unless you rotate them in your photo app :-)

We've determined the second plant is a Caesalpinia spinosa, Spiny Caesalpinia. Those are the Mexican Birds of Paradise which are WEEDS in this climate, but what wonderful weeds they are! Kippy, thank YOU! Yes ma'am, we must get up there with mountain climbing gear to see what we can find!

Thank you TrueBlue! This are fresh out of the big camera. The street hedge row

Do you see that? An old cane cut from the tree but the new canes are trying to retake the palm tree

And next post the imposter