Windrunner/Bella, it's good to know that you genuinely care for the well being of your plants in the long run. I believe that's why everyone in the forum is so passionate for them.

It's not easy picking up anything new, there will always be a significant learning curve involved. The good thing is that you have the resources (search through this forum) and the members to support you, you just need to put in the hours to research and read them all!

Growing succulents are by no means an expensive hobby with complicated light fixtures and 100 component soils, above a few members have given you non-pricey break downs of how you can provide the plants with the proper care for under $10.

Unless you have mastered how to efficiently provide for your plants (light + water correctly), I'm afraid you might have to sacrifice some plants along the way to that path of knowledge (even I myself still had lost some very beloved plants despite me providing the growing conditions to the best of my abilities). Trust me, replacing lost plants are more expensive than any light fixtures or soil mixes.

I guess what I had to say was what Crenda had pointed out, you acquire plants that you can provide within your means. So for now, instead starting the mesembs seeds project, I rather you invest that cost into soil and light for your current plants.

Starting special succulent seeds like mesmebs are a pricey affair, the seed alone is not very expensive because they are so tiny, but you have to buy more to have a higher success rate. They have a high germination rate but very low survivability if you don't provide sufficient growing conditions and attention to the seedlings.

I like your thinking in tackling the first problem which is the gravels in your soil. My best suggestion is to take them out, and replace them with perlite.

You can start by sifting the gravel out as how Crenda and Nomen suggest. A kitchen sieve from the dollar store will do the trick.

Roots are the brain of all plants, if you have poor soil, you get unhappy roots, that leads to sad and dead plants.

May I suggest a saucer sized pic or two of what you have on hand for soil /mix ingredients add a coin for size reference before you not use perlite as a part of your potting soil ?

The idea you propose of perlite being eliminated is okay but you would/ may require to be amended with other items to ensure fast draining Some of these ammedments may be harder to find or priced at higher budget. As well some soil amending alternatives are not budget busters.

Budget minded shouldn't mean to skimp out or pay less for something or back burner an item because of inconveniences Take a moment and realize that the least expensive item used to pot cultivate any plant also causes the most costly out of pocket damage.

Here are some $ amounts used as an example:

Plant $10

Pot $5 that will be home to a $10 plant

Soil/mix for the pot that cost $5 is apx $2

Total $ 17

Water $.003 for each watering

Yes brenton winter long I use a bit of the natural lighting space from all three of the 180 inch wide six foot high windows atop of them is a 10 foot high ceiling. My 2nd floor with slightly smaller natural lighting windows isn't used for plants during winter but could use some/most of the window space if I had to. IE winter plant baby sitting for a local ect.. In short the first floor windows are able to house two of these http://www.lowes.com/pd_71034-80752-184874C-DS___?productId=3473479&pl=1&Ntt=shelving.

The down side: I only have four racks that are the same size on the link with enough window room for six that would maximize the window space Yet the lack of shelving is actually a plus for managing the ones I do have. I guess my lack of plant finding and pot shopping also helps me to have some extra plant free spaces inside during the winter months here. OMG and to think that the same un-found plant(s) would only block a view of some bare branches and twigs does arouse my thinking.

Sounds like some awesome plant space!!

bella

I try to get 'things' for as little $ as possible and rather save $ for plants.

I visit stores like reStore (I believe proceeds go to Habitat for humanity) - where I also donate stuff I don't have use for. I get lots of very inexpensive stuff there; they don't only sell 'leftovers' but they may have brand new things from a store close-up. Any 2nd hand store and dollar stores are good for various trays, containers, racks and things that could be re-purposed for plant hobby. And there is always a freecycle (for example-I got about 50lb of gravel free; also metal and glass shelves that were used as a display for a ceramic artist-free), Craigslist and kijiji...

I buy CFL and/or any other bulbs in BBS. Few time a year they have really good savings offered by Ontario Hydro - $5 off on energySaver marked bulbs (so 6 pack that is regularly just under $20 is now $15). I pick up few at that time. They also last for a long time, use much less energy and emit less heat. I have got few LED bulbs recently (with similar savings).

There is so much stuff in excellent conditions (often brand new, in original packaging) available, it makes it worth the time. At the same time one can feel good about re-cycling, re-using and definitely saving cash. More for the new plants!

Some stuff can't be bought that way. I buy potting mix ingredients in bulk and that is also money and time saver (of course, one has to have space to store extras and it is worth only if there are enough plants).

nomen

just to mention something about the racks: having couple of similar, I spaced them about 3' apart and used 1x3" to 'bridge' the space - creating additional shelve area. It doesn't look much different (with trays of plants it isn't even visible) - and there is space of 3 units with using only 2.

Rina

Rina - Lots of good suggestions!

Yeah, thank you so much! Also, are there any more ID suggestions?

Bella,

Most of your sucuclent plants (not the cactus) look like some form of Crassulacae (family of Jade) which can include Sedum, Echeveria, Graptopetalum, Aeoniums, etc ... w/out bloom or more growth, it's pretty hard to ID many of those. They'll all have in common a need for strong, direct sun, & a light touch w/ the watering can.

Someone suggested humidity trays above, for the young plants; bad advice, pls disregard it, as it's likely to encourage rot.

To the person suggesting this, just my impression, but you seem kind of new to be giving such detailed, & sadly wrong advice. Pls. stop giving incorrect advice, it'll cause newbies to lose their plantlets. Humitiy trays are for tropicals, epiphytes & violets, not for succulents, whose defining characteristic is the ABILITY TO HOLD WATER IN RESERVE in their fat fleshy tissues, therefore, no humidity trays for succulents pls.

Imontestella, I guess each to his own. I propagate most of my plantlets on very coarse leftover mix of bark, grits and turface from my sifted soil.

I'm very tough with my seedlings when it comes to water, at times up to 3 weeks without water them. Perhaps its also my climate condition but I had lost some of my baby plants to under watering or dry rot.

Here's the tray that I don't pay much attention to..

Here is the one that I give water slightly more frequently, but had still lost 2 -3 plantlets because they dried up from roots being too dry.

I'm sorry for you felt this way about my recommendations, as I only meant to help and share my experience. I guess I shall refrain on any advice on this thread for now.

I'm with you, Bernard. Your advice is always appreciated!

WelL I DO appreciate that you're trying to help, but pls. realize that newbies by & large are growing in ordinary soil mixes, the commercial, peaty ones, not what you're using & given that, they're stuff will likely rot. That's the difference.

I wouldn't wish to ask you to stop helping, just to pls. beware that they are too new to make distinctions about soil mixes like you have.

Bernard a newbie??? Ha ha !

What do you usually grow, imontestella? I feel we have met before.

marguerite: I think imontestella is trying to tell Bernard that imontestella is ( they are) the newbie.

Is kind of odd though as imontestella only asked for some succulent plant ID'ing originally and ended up with some budget busting soil suggestions and plant buying on a easy to find succulents that are easier to find and have a lower price point per plant.

Sounds Italian to me IMO Bernard isn't Italian ?

Wait, it's getting confusing. It wasn't me who asked the IDs, it was me suggesting varieties in Crassulacae they might be. And discouraging humidity trays for succulents.

I apologize Bernard, I meant no offense. Your plantlets look great so clearly it's working for you.

I grow Sans, Aloes, Crassulacae, Haworthias, Gasterias, ZZs, holiday cacti, other tropicals & lots of Hoyas.

Lena

35 drip catch trays just like the one seen below are full of potted succulents species Tray by tray each pot that has been watered then are set on the same tray for several minutes

After the tray has been refilled with watered plants I simply use an extra dry tray before returning the tray to it's place.

As you mentioned that you have hanging pots ( hoya ) they can handle a more humid air than most any crassuleacea I hang mine on top of the windows and some corner well lite areas on hangers that are higher ( & as you already know )

The next concern I have is that no top watering idea... Some will state they do top water with no ill effects to there succulents and some will swear they don't ever top water and still have no ill effect, then the same exact person swears to both regardless of the facts of what they stated prior.

As is true in nature must also be true for a pot (after all) as the pot is also in nature all the same natural laws must apply to a pot as the same natural laws exist in nature.

Suggestion: Gather more information about certain succulents as you can. You don't have any in your pics but there are some succulents that will stain forever if top watered.

Also included as top watering is pest control measures which are at times suggested Understand that as some pest treatments are used as misting sprays or brushed on oil based or home made recipes that are liquid based must also count as top watering >As both water and most every pest treatments are both liquid.

Maybe I am just confused, but I thought that Bernard was referring to growing cacti/succulents from seed. I haven't done it yet, but IIRC, many who did say that they need high humidity - and the way I understood Barnard's post, that's what he was referring to:

..."Seed starting is fun and easy, you just need to make sure to keep them
moist and damp. And for here, peat soil works well because they stay wet
very long."...

Update on suggestions: I just finished preparing my own soil, with sifted potting soil and perlite, and I can't wait to see how it goes! And Bernard, the seeds were part of a birthday gift, so I went ahead and started them after reading up on it, and I've got a bunch of sprouts! It makes me really happy to see them grow

Also, should I be worried about this one (like pests/disease), or is this scarring?

Bumping so I can get some advice before I water again, in case it is that..

What scarring do you mean from your photo? The dark spot on the bottom leaf?

No, all the little dark dots on the leaves above that

Bella, I believe that is part of the normal leaf coloration. Google Crassula perforata and compare the pictures. I think you are good!

Yep, you're right. I should've thought of that. Thank you so much!

Yup, I agree with Crenda. =)

Bella, Crenda is spot on here.

The plant naturally has slight spotted-like coloration when it gets more light.

Here's a picture of my Crassula Perforata.

As for your ID no. 4

This is what Echeveria Multicaulis will look like with more light.. It can even turn to a bright red hue when it is stressed.

So, a quick update: I think the plants are doing well with the new soil. The seeds are also doing well, and I've tried distilling my own water! I don't know how much of a difference that will really make (it takes a surprisingly long time) except hopefully in taking the faint marks off my echeveria perle von nurnberg.

Glad to hear your seeds and plants are doing well!

I tried distilling water myself and it was so much work / I did not have the right equipment to do it. At least distilled water is very cheap at the store for a 4L jug.

EC of my no-name purchased distilled water was 4 µS/cm, which is more than sufficient for my purposes.

I've taken to using the water from my dehumidifier to water plants. Only problem is the supply does not keep up with the demand at this time of year!!

in summer I usually use rainwater.

I'm definitely going to look into buying.. Is it really worth it compared to tap/purified though? Also, thoughts on the Miracle-Gro Foaming Succulent fertilizer, if anyone's used it?

I've never seen the MG foaming fertilizer. I have used the bottle of MG succulent fertilizer where you dilute 20-30 drops in a quart of water. Frankly, I do just as well using regular MG fertilizer. I dilute it about 1/4 the recommended strength. I have never had burn from fertilizer using this method. And it is generally cheaper!

I never used the MG foaming fertilizer either and prefer more 'precise' delivery methods.

Miracle Grow 12-4-8 liquid fertilizer has served me well so far and it's easy to buy here. If you follow the houseplants instructions (5mL fertilizer for 4L of water on my bottle), I doubt you will have fertilizer burn issues as long as you water properly.

Not sure if this is meaningful/helpful to you, but I measured the fertilizer EC at the recommended houseplant dose rate and it was about 370 µS/cm. Which is a very reasonable concentration for succulents.

Oh! I had also tested my Schultz Cactus 2-7-7 liquid, which was 136 µS/cm at the recommended dose rate. Which was a bit low.

The MG foaming is also 2-7-7, but I have no idea what the recommended concentration is and never tested it myself.

For measuring fertilizer concentrations, I use some cheap syringes from Ebay with blunt metal tips (not dangerous hypodermic ones).

Pls. clarify what this means: µS/cm.

Thx

Bella, it's great to know your plants enjoy the new mix. Pictures will be great! I'm sure many members that posted here are also eager to view them too.

I would say take one step at a time, fertilizing can be a tricky subject, too much of a certain mineral can cause root burn, desiccating roots overnight because they block the pores of the roots and prevent proper water absorption.

One thing is for sure though, that it is not the best time of the year to start experimenting on fertilizing as winter is vast approaching, most plant starts slowing down that growth. Maybe you can read more about it first in this forum, there are a wealth of knowledge, then you can start trying it out during Spring when your plants are actively growing again.

Some members don't even use fertilizers. and their plants do not look shabby at all -- points to Rina.

As for purified/distilled water, unless it's lab level purified from Air to Water, anything that comes straight from your tap has some form of mineral deposits in it, whether you make it go through a filter or not. I spent a great amount of time buying certain gadgets to measure water properties from my tap and filter, and filters only eliminate certain harmful contents. They do not remove chlorine and sometimes low traces of iron in your tap water. Depending on which state you are, your tap water might be more hard than mine. But in general NY water is fine, so I just use it straight off from the tap. Nothing detrimental to my plants, as long as the water drains and flush mineral deposits.

Imonstella - µS/cm is a measure of the electrical conductivity or salinity of soil or water (normally with fertilizer). Too low a number means your plant may not have enough available nutrients in the soil to grow well. Too high a number means fertilizer burn or other detrimental effects can be occurring.

Soil EC up to 600 µS/cm is a very good number for succulents. Over 2000 µS/cm you will definitely be having some major problems or death if not corrected.

Succulents typically require a lower amount of nutrients, due to their native environments. For example, something like a Schefflera or Dracena tree (common in homes) should be able to withstand 4000 µS/cm without having major problems.

I hadn't thought about the dormant winter stage.. I do have a couple of plants that are pupping now, though, so would it be smart to use it on them, or just completely leave it be until March?

I have a few Echeveria sending out pups now too, I believe this is what they do during the fall (note: winter seems a bit late this year, so the plant is still in growing mood in NY). If you really do think they will benefit from fertilizing, start with very very small doses. I usually just do a few drops with a liquid dropper mixed into a gallon of water. Monitor closely, increase ratio if you see improvements.

But generally, at this time of the year, I reduce my ratio as temp gets colder.

Thanks! It's been unusually warm with lots of sun along with my heater in the plant room, so that could be part of it. I think the kind I ordered is a foam? So I'll start with a really small amount since I'm a little nervous about overwhelming them. I had another question, well, questions though. First, I have this jade, right?

And it's doing pretty well, but since it's so much bigger than my other plants, I'm not sure how much/how often to water it. It has the repotted soil and the pot drains, so the water staying in there shouldn't be a problem. But what amount / how often, especially in the winter, should I water it?

And secondly, I'm worried about this plant, the crassula perforata:

The bottom of the plant was always purple/shriveled, but the top is still nice and green. Or is this normal? From what I've read, clipping the top and allowing it to grow roots is an option, but I thought I should get some more expert opinions first before declaring everything to be lost.

Also, quick seedling pic!

Third (and hopefully final) question: Can I get an ID for this? You can also kind of see the new soil up in the corner.

(I'm thinking echeveria imbricata?)

And one actually final bumping update: I got a grow light! So hopefully my plants will be a little happier this winter..

Take a photo of your new light with your plants for us! =)

My little garden with natural light now, and I'll put up another one when it gets dark with the grow light!

bella

I see a glass bowl with cacti in it - generally, not a good idea. Did you just put it together? Is there a drainage hole in the bottom?

That one was purchased that way (old Christmas present for my mom) but I recently changed out the soil. I don't believe it drains, though, but I also haven't watered it in a while.

bella

For long term health of your succulents, it would be best to take them out of that container. Not watering is not a solution, even cacti need some water. And container like that, with top being smaller than inside, creates too much humidity. Sooner or later the plants will suffer.

What about large blue community container - does it have drainage? Can't tell what plants you have there, it may be good idea to have plants with same water & light requirements in the same container.

Could I ask what is in that square/oblong container in front of the glass one (right next to the window) - looks like top is covered?

Rina

I plan on moving them, but I've been putting off that project until after my exams (and when I can decorate the pots).

The large blue container does have drainage, since it's plastic and I managed to get a couple holes in the bottom. I'm hoping for them to get a little larger before I isolate them, though.

As for the covered container, those are my mesemb seeds. I've got them covered with plastic wrap to keep the humidity in.

bella

I thought that those are seeds; I didn't grow any mesembs from seeds so maybe I shouldn't comment, I am just wondering if that isn't too much for them - not only they are in enclosed container (good for humidity), but if the sun shines it could be too much - someone with experience of growing these will hopefully see this post and correct me.

Rina

I'm just a beginner with Mesemb seeds, but once they germinate and the leaves are decently sized I remove the humidity bag.

My Titanopsis seedlings below took about 10 days to germinate and another 2 weeks to get to this size. I keep them in somewhat bright light (photo taken just now):

Here is the promised grow light picture! I'm still trying to figure out where to position it to cover the most it can, though..

Also, any thoughts on the jade and crassula perforata?

Kevin

Where did you keep seeds just after sowing - by the window (in sunlight if and when sunny); under lights (more control how much light & heat) or? My thinking was that by the window they could 'cook' if it happens to be sunny.

Rina

Bella - I think the Jade is a bit up to your discretion. Your other Crassula and Echeveria may be pickier than the Jade for light.

Rina - After sowing my seeds, I put them in the far corner of my grow light setup. It's a bright spot, but not too bright. I don't have any good windows for sunlight in my home really.

I don't think the seeds will be getting too much light, our days have been mostly gray here. And thanks, ewwmayo (or Kevin?)!