Ok, now I have looked at some of the vinyl Windows manufacturers, who is the best? Who is a high end vinyl window?

does vinyl get a bad reputation from the past for some reason? Can you put vinyl in a large project and still look good?

While not a comprehensive list, Sunrise, Okna, and Softlite are pretty highly regarded by most.

Any bad reputation is based partially on outdated info (old mechanically fastened products etc), but even more so on some of today's junk. There are actually thousands of vinyl window manufacturers, and a good many of them put out junk.

Like any other material, there are good choices and poor ones. With vinyl, there are a LOT of bad choices unfortunately, but the good ones are really good... No issue with large projects

Does Okna have new construction Windows? I only see replacement options and I would need a brick mold window.

they look nice, but if you had to pick the best, which would that be and why? How's the service with these companies?

I don't predict vinyl will last as long as fiberglass (even good quality vinyl). I don't sell windows like HomeSealed does, I am just a homeowner who did a ton of research before selecting fiberglass. We do have some vinyl windows as well (they were high quality and top dollar ones). I am thinking they will give us 15 years before they need replacing. Our windows are casement, and the centre rails are wider on our vinyl ones vs our fiberglass ones (less glass). Our vinyl ones cost less than the fiberglass ones. Often vinyl is a great choice due to pricing.

Carol

Ontariomom, do you base your predictions on any data?

I feel like I am coming across as a shill for vinyl windows, however I sell vinyl, fiberglass, and wood, so hopefully that might mitigate any perceived bias.

I installed vinyl windows in my own home for performance and maintenance considerations, without even considering price. I've seen 30 yr old, mechanically fastened vinyl windows that still look and operate quite well. Without exception, any large scale (several in a home) vinyl window failures that I see are due to poor quality product selection.

@Sten, both Okna and most vinyl window makers will offer a new construction version of their window lines. You are better off however looking at products that are geared at the replacement market where buyers are more concerned with quality and performance, as opposed to those that are more geared to the new construction market where low price is king.

I talked with my architect today and mentioned vinyl Windows. His concern was degradation due to UV rays and destroying the vinyl/plastic over time. How do the top makers cover this or mitigate the risk?

I thought that was a fun read Ontario mom, blast from the past. :) ... Started a little rocky but it seemed like we gained an understanding of each other's perspective.

I have to admit, I'm not really understanding why you feel that you have a license to trash vinyl Windows with admittedly no data to back that up beyond citing a "tremendous amount of research", but then turn around and act like you are the victim of a crime should someone challenge your statements?

As I stated earlier in this thread, and in that old one as well, there are great and poor choices in every window material. Each has pros and cons, but none represent the "holy grail" as it pertains to window construction. I have no problem whatsoever with fiberglass Windows ( especially the Canadian models that have impressive performance numbers) however I don't believe that it is fair to paint vinyl with a broad, unflattering brush either.

You mentioned that you purchased vinyl Windows that were pretty good, which line did you choose?

... Btw, it's cold here too!... Not sure where in Ontario you are located, but our avg Jan and Feb low here in Milwaukee is a couple degrees colder than Toronto... I'll also mention that I regularly recommend products that I do not sell, and in fact, some that are sold by my direct competitors.

No ill will intended by my comments, just suggesting that facts and data are great resources when a clash of opinion should occur :)

HomeSealed -- your comments continue to amaze me (not in a good way and yes they do spread ill wiill despite your intentions).

We have Eurotech windows and Eurovinyl windows in our house. I don't remember trashing vinyl windows, I am just happier with the fiberglass ones we have. I didn't realize I had to submit a reference list of the research I read to make a summary statement (I must have missed your reference list as well). I am sure the OP can do his or her own reaserach and will find that vinyl windows are not perfect, and fiberglass ones are expensive so may not represent good enough value for the money they cost.

I'm sorry that you perceived my comments that way. You stated that fiberglass Windows would outlast vinyl Windows, and may only last 15 years, so I simply asked for some support for that statement. I'd expect nothing less anytime that i give advice based on opinion. I vehemently disagree with those statements if you can't tell. You should get far more than 15 years out of any window that is decent quality regardless of material.

Hi sten76,

Please read this: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0066422

Ive used both fiberglass and high end vinyl. The higher end vinyl offerings will render much better energy efficiency, air tightness, and believe it or not, more structural integrity. All the " off gassing" nonsense is a bunch of hog wash that pertained to cheaply made vinyl windows 30 years ago.

The higher end vinyl brands use a much higher grade vinyl material with UV protection. Warping is not an issue. The cheaper vinyl, stay away. Go with the higher end brands and you will be set.

Ron...you liked your own post? Might want to post something that isn't approaching 15 years out of date as well as being unrepresentative of current UPVC offerings. For the record, I love FG and we sell a decent bit of it, but the study you posted isn't accurate for the time either.

Interesting read, however there is clearly some bias. The comparisons take a high end wood window made of doug fir, a high performance Canadian fiberglass unit, and then an "el cheapo" price point vinyl window. The results could have just as easily been tilted in the opposite direction by using a low end radiata pine wood unit, a lower end fiberglass, and a high end vinyl. The comparison is apples to oranges, and is done so through an environmentalist lens, where the primary objective is not to provide consumers with information to choose a product that will perform best for their money, but to push the underlying agenda.

Somebody
mentioned Thermotech.

I would stay
away Thermotech Fiberglass Fenestration out of Ontario. I ordered windows from them; have not seen
the windows nor my deposit. I have even
had them served with papers by a process server since they do not answer my
calls or E-mails; nothing heard yet. I
would check the BBB and do some google research before I chose them.

I think they
made a great window at one time….hard to judge with no windows in hand. They
were incredibly helpful and friendly right up until the time to deliver windows.

milehigh,

I was the one who owns windows from Thermotech Fiberglass Fenestration out of Ontario. I am very sorry to hear of your troubles with them. I certainly hope you get all your deposit money back. It sounds like they have gone out of business. What a headache! I think Fibertec (near Toronto) is a very comparable product, that would be a good substitute, assuming you can settle quickly with Thermotech. Are your windows for a new build? If so, you must be so ticked to have your build held up by this window company.

Good luck getting your deposit back quickly.

Carol

ontariomom, -did you happen to look Marvin's Infinity line (not Integrity) when you were shopping around for windows? If so, what did you think? I think they're nicer looking than Marvin's Integrity line, but not sure how they compare to Fibertec or Thermotech. Thanks!

ontariomom - we're also in Ontario (Ottawa area), looking at window options. Don't want vinyl (fugly, I don't want pure white) so we're considering Marvin, Pella and Martin aluminum-clad wood so far. I didn't know about fibreglass windows - would you mind pointing me in the right direction for quality manufacturers/dealers, please?

There's also an Irish window manufacturer that's making inroads around here in forward-thinking highly efficient homes; for comparison, they're less expensive than Marvin, and WAY faster, oddly enough. Around 3 weeks from order to delivery, apparently. Really nice windows, with clever European latches, not just casement or double-hungs.

Pat,

We did look at both fiberglass lines from Marvin. One of them was more attractive than the other (I am not sure which one it was, but I thought it was the Integrity line that was more attractive ). Overall, I did like the Canadian options better and so went local for my windows (I am in Canada). I am sure others posters on this thread will know more about the two Marvin Fiberglass lines and might chime in. I found the Fibertec (and Theromotech Fiberglass) profiles more attractive than either Marvin Fiberglass line. But Themotech Fiberglass seems to be out of business, so it is no longer an option (maybe the failing Canadian dollar hurt them).

Summery,

We did not look at all the same options you listed above. We live an hour outside Toronto. Our architect wanted us to go with aluminum-clad wood as he felt they were the best option available. Who makes the windows from Ireland, and what material are they made from? I believe I have seen the Europ;ean latches you wrote about and they are very nice. We were given a three week turn around from one of the vinyl window makers that quoted for our job. The waiting times for fiberglass were longer from all fiberglass companies we considered.

The options for fiberglass that I have seen are: Marvin (2 lines), Inline (Toronto area), and Fibertec (Toronto area). There was also Thermotech Fiberglass (Ottawa area), but a poster above stated they may have gone out of business, so avoid them now. I believe there is a Fiberglass option from Manitoba, but we have never seen them. I would recommend Fibertec (Toronto area) as my number one choice amohg the fiberglass ones we explored now the Thermotech Fiberglass seems to have closed.

Carol

Carol,

Thanks for the response. I think Marvin's Infinity line is generally considered to be the better (and more attractive) of the two, but of course a lot of that is personal opinion. I'm planning to go look at the Infinity line today and see what I think. There is only one dealer near me that carries it, and they have to install it (they won't sell just the windows). Apparently that's due to the lifetime warranty they offer.

I like the pictures I've seen of Fibertec and Thermotech's windows (they actually look very similar). Surprised to hear Thermotech is out of business though, as I thought they were a major player. I would love to check out a Fibertec window, but unfortunately no one around here has them (southern Indiana), and the closest Fibertec customer is 5 hours away. So I'll probably have to pass. I'm also looking into Alpen, who has gotten good reviews as well.

I've also gotten quotes for Marvin Ultimates and Loewen (aluminum clad wood). Both are very nice looking, well made windows, but since my interiors are all painted, I'm not sure there's really any advantage to wood (and the disadvantage of possible rot). So if I can find a nice looking, well made fiberglass window, that would be my preference.

Thanks again for your feedback. It's been very helpful.

Pat

Hi Pat,

My sister likes her Inline Fiberglass windows. I think Inline is the major player around here for Fiberglass. I would have guessed the largest was Inline, followed by Fibertec and Thermotech Fiberglass the smallest. We strongly considered Inline windows as well and had a good look around at their factor and offerings. They are very well made and I believe are available through many dealers in the US. They are made in Toronto, Canada. I am not sure they were quite as attractive as the Thermotech Fiberglass or Fibertec (the latter do have very similar profiles). You might be able to find a dealer for Inline that you can see close to home. Good luck with your searches.

Carol

The Infinity line is an "exclusive", private label line made specifically for the replacement market. Performance-wise, it and the Integrity are on the same level. In all-ultrex, I'd agree that the Infinity does look nicer. The Integrity does have the option of the real wood interior however, which looks good and is not available in the Inifinity. As stated earlier in the thread, the Canadian FG products like fibertec and Inline will offer superior performance ratings across the board.

HomeSealed,

Is it true that the all-ultrex Integrity is less attractive than the Integrity with real wood inside? I think that was what I recall -- it has been a few years since we examined the Marvin line.

Pat, I was mixing up the Infinity all-ultrex and the Integrity all -ultrex when I made my comments above.

Carol

The all ultrex Integrity in either single or double hung, is not just less attractive it's downright ugly IMO. The casements and picture windows are quite nice though.

The wood/ultrex Integrity is a very attractive window, and offers SDL bars that aren't available on the all ultrex.

+1. Ultra nailed that description. There is a pretty narrow appeal for the all Ultrex product IMO, but the wood ultrex looks nice, and offers a more palatable price point than the Ultimate.

Well, I looked at an Infinity casement yesterday. In general I thought it was pretty nice, but not quite to the same level as the Marvin Ultimate I saw earlier. The seals didn't appear to go all the way the corners, and some of the detail at the miters didn't quite match up. I took a few pictures to show this. On the other hand, it did operate smoothly and seemed fairly tight. So not a perfect window but pretty good. Overall though, I think I like Marvin's Ultimate better. My Alpen rep is tracking down one of their casements for me to look at. It will be interesting to see how it compares.

Ultimate is either all wood or wood/alum clad. Is that what you meant as earlier the conversation was Ultrex Integrity & Infinity?

Sorry for the confusion. I'm actually looking at both fiberglass (Marvin Infinity, Alpen, Fibertec 300) and aluminum clad wood (Marvin Ultimate, Kolbe Ultra, Sun). The fiberglass is appealing because there is nothing there to rot. However, I expect the al-clad units should last as well as long as they're installed properly. So the decision is primarily coming down to aesthetics and cost. So far the alu-clad units are winning on aesthetics, but that may change once I see an Alpen or (if possible) Fibertec unit.

The Infinity, in a casement, is probably fine. It is a pretty window indeed, but the complaints you hear are that it leaks air like a sieve. Customer that I know of have previously replaced Infinity DH windows because of just that complaint of air leakage and drafts.

Pat,

Are you looking for replacement windows or windows for a new build?

Carol

Carol,

Sorry for the delay in responding (was under the weather yesterday). The window replacement is part of an exterior renovation we're doing, and the plan is to do full frame replacements. In some areas we'll be down to the sheathing so should be able to seal those windows really well.

It sounds like you've been very happy with your fiberglass windows. I recently came across a post from someone who wasn't (although he didn't mention the brand). Some of the issues he cited included poor alignment due to twisting in the frame, paint that easily chips or scratches, and susceptibility to dents. I suspect this is specific to one manufacturer (and/or one bad batch), and not fiberglass windows as a whole, but was curious if you had experienced any of that? The finish on the Marvin Infinity I just saw looked very good. It didn't strike me as something that would chip, scratch or dent easily. But Marvin has a proprietary finish and process for applying it (so I was told) and others may not be as good.

I'm still interested in Fibertec though and may have worked out a way to see one.

Thanks!

Pat

Hi Pat,

We have not had any of the troubles you listed above with our fiberglass windows. I have not read about those kinds of complaints either. Glad you are liking the Marvin windows. Did you decide whether to check out Inline windows?

Carol

Carol,

There are a lot of window reviews on the Green Building Advisor website (http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/). I've seen complaints on most of the major window brands, along with glowing reviews of the same windows. Defects and installation mistakes can happen with any window. So I don't put much stock in a negative review unless I see it repeated.

I especially like the windows from Fibertec and Marvin (and Thermotech also) because they have somewhat narrower frames that I like. So I'm focusing mainly on those for now. I imagine if I could actually see all of the available options side by side, my short list would probably change.

Thanks for the feedback.

Pat

Well hopefully you will be able to see Fibertec as they are beautiful (as were Thermotech). I don't recall the Marvin ones you are considering as we were looking for new construction so did not examine the Infinity line. We were lucky we were able to see all the other fiberglass windows directly one weekend after another (not side by side).

Carol

Hi Carol,

I wanted to give an update on the window selection. It's now between Fibertec (300 series) and Marvin (Ultimate series). Price-wise, the Fibertec quote actually came in lower, which was nice. I think a favorable exchange rate helped. Unfortunately, they still haven't been able to locate a window for me to look at. The fallback is to ship some corner samples, but it would be nicer to see (and operate) a full window. Hopefully they'll find one.

I do have a question for you. Are your Fibertec windows double or triple glazed (or some of both)? I ask because I noticed the sash profile on the triple glazed unit looks a lot different than the double glazed unit. The front (exterior) face of the sash is a lot flatter on the triple glazed unit due to the thicker glass. I'm wondering how that effects the aesthetics of the window. A flat profile tends to look a little more modern, I think, but I'm not sure that would work well on this house. If you have any thoughts on how they compare in appearance, please share. Thanks.

Pat

Hi Pat,

Glad you are able to narrow down your choices to two companies. It does not surprise me that you got a good USD price on the Fibertec windows due to our dollar tanking.

Our windows are all triple glazed. We never looked at the difference between the sash profile of the double vs triple. Here is a photo of a Fiberglass window from the outside. It is a little flat as your noted. I never took notice of that before you mentioned it. Would the flat profile also apply to the Marvin ones?

Carol,

Thanks for posting the photos. Those look very nice! I suspect the double glazed units might not look that different from a similar distance, despite the profile difference. Here's how they compare, in case you're interested. As you can see, the glass retainer is sloped on the double glazed unit (left) and flat on the triple (right).

The Marvin Ultimate (left) and Infinity (right) sash profiles are thinner and in between those above in terms of flatness.

This came up because I'm considering using triple glazed units on the north side, and double glazed everywhere else. I'm in climate zone 4, so have triples everywhere probably doesn't make sense. But having seen your windows, I don't think it will be a problem aesthetically, as long as they're not too close to each other (and even then, it may not matter).

Pat

Not going to get into the who is best window arguments, but I can attest to having great customer service with ours. We chose Marvin wood-ultrex windows. One was damaged during delivery, and they came out and replaced the window no problem. We also changed a door handle after installation without problem.

Carol,

I have another question for you, if you're still following this. In the pictures you posted your windows don't appear to have any brickmould, but just a 1x4" casing around them. That is what I'm thinking of doing as well. I was wondering though whether they were installed with a nailing fin attached. Were they? I ask because one of my windows has a half round transom, and according to Fibertec those aren't available with a nailing fin. So I'm wondering if that will complicate the installation and make it harder to seal. I still haven't decided for sure on Fibertec, although that is my preference if I'm confident they can be installed properly.

Pat

Hi Pat. You are correct, we did not order the brickmould. I do believe they were installed with a nailing fin. The 1 X 4 grey window trim was just decorative and made by Maibec the same siding company we used for the main siding. I would ask Fibertec for advice how to install the semi circle window. We had our windows installed by the framers (we were lucky that one of the framers had a background in window installing). You safest bet is to hire a window installer. When it came time to install our front door, we hired a window installer who also sold windows to install the door.. He had the experience we wanted for our expensive, new door.

Perhaps the window experts on this forum will give you some advice on installing the semi-circle window.

Thanks Carol. I did ask Steve Hall (at Fibertec) about this, but haven't heard back yet. I also did some searching online, and all the installation examples I saw involving half-round windows had nailing fins. Flashing the fin seemed to be a key part of making the window weather tight. Also, Fibertec's "custom shaped" windows are made of a wood composite, not fiberglass (apparently pulltruded fiberglass can't be formed in curved shapes). So more the reason to make sure this is done right.

I know European windows typically don't have nailing fins. So it must be possible to install one without it and still make it weather tight without relying totally on caulk to keep moisture out. I wish Fibertec provided more guidance on that though. Their website has very little (surprisingly). I have one person lined up to do all the work (windows, siding, and trim installation). He does good work and doesn't seem too concerned. But I still plan to find out how it should be done so I can ask him about it next time we talk.

Pat

Does anyone have experience with the fiberglass casement windows sold by Norwood Windows and Doors (New Brunswick)? Are there any updates on Fibertec's performance?

Fibertec's windows are awesome.

Norwood in the past has never been anything special and I would not expect their fiberglass to be any better. Fibertec is a very good quality product.

Thank you both for your feedback!

neonweb US 5b, hello, we're looking at the Marvin Wood-Ultrex and All Ultrex with the black on black or brown on brown option. Are you still happy with your windows and how's the performance and color holding up? We're in the Yellowstone area so there are large temperature swings. Thanks in advance.

I am a fiberglass window owner and doing a new project and curious what might be new in the market. Installed Cascadia Windows out of Canada for a house in Portland in 2014 and am likely to go with the same brand as I have had zero issues with the window. Only issue is that the slider is a compression close which is great for the seal and noise but has a bit of a “clumsy” threshold

The main new one I've come across is the Marvin Modern. It used High-Density Fiberglass (not pultruded) on the exterior of the window and aluminum on the interior. So it should be pretty strong and durable, but I expect it's expensive.

Pat...you might be understating, albeit unintentional, a bit.

the expensive part? Lol...no doubt!