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szara_loring

Window/Stucco Project MN

10 years ago

I'm hoping to kick off a window replacement/stucco job this spring. I have a 1989 home with Kolbe and Kolbe rolled aluminum clad windows throughout. The front of the house is cedar siding while the sides and back are stucco.

A little history: I just purchased this house 1 1/2 years ago. The windows had some signs of moisture damage over the years, but the inspector said it was likely caused by window coverings, windows being left open, etc, etc. Last summer we had a few rain storms where moisture came through the stucco and penetrated to the interior of around a patio door and a bathroom window. I called a stucco contractor (Donnelly Stucco for those of you in MN) and they quickly pointed out that the windows and doors were not flashed properly and that there was no kick out flashing where the roof line meets the stucco. We also noticed that the windows had significant hail damage and so enters the insurance company who may or may not cover a portion of the replacement cost of some of the windows. It has taken me a year of negotiation with them and I'm still waiting for their final assessment so that I can understand how much of this project they will assist with. The latest verbal was that they would give reimburse the cost of the depreciated windows and the lesser expensive stucco work, but have not sent me the final paperwork with the details.

I've read through 100s of posts here and tried to understand all the advice given to people who have the same questions as I do.

Really my questions revolve around wanting to make sure to do the right job the right way. I want to educate myself about the process, the types of product that I should consider, and how to understand what the contractors will be proposing.

I went and looked at windows and was quickly overwhelmed. I loved the Marvin Ultimates, but honestly will not likely be able to afford them. K&K is a nice window but the ones I have now do show moisture damage and these are also very expensive. The replacement quote for the insurance company was 50k. Any opinions on what are the top 3 options for window replacement would be? Money does not grow on trees but I also don't want to be stupidly cheap about the whole thing. Same for patio doors - I was not impressed with K&K doors. All of the trim on the inside of my house is oak, so I would likely want a wood interior.

The two contractors and the insurance company's architectural engineer had slightly differing opinions on how to deal with the stucco. One opinion was to completely remove & replace the stucco. The other (cheaper) was to cut out the existing windows, sandblast the remaining stucco (which has been painted), and then apply a top coat of stucco after the new windows are in and the stucco is patched. So any thoughts in that area would also be nice. Also there is no brick mold around the windows today and although it will change the exterior appearance I wonder if it should be installed in case there is an issue with any of the windows in the future. For those of you in MN - if you have any recco's for stucco work or a job of this nature I'd appreciate it.

I'm happy to post pictures if that would help. Please let me know what types of pictures would be helpful.

Thanks much!!

Comments (18)

  • 10 years ago

    Attached are some photos showing representative condition of interior windows, the rear exterior of the home, and a few examples where the roof line meets the stucco. Let me know if others or higher resolution would be helpful.

    This convergence of wall/roof line is how this project got started. :|


  • 10 years ago

    I have looked at Marvin ultrex and it seems like a really nice option. I did like the anderson wood framing - felt good and I could understand it. But I have a nagging concern about the long term viability of the Anderson vinyl cladding, especially in the temp extremes of MN and some of the areas of the house that really take a beating from the afternoon sun. That said - any quality window will likely outlive me or my tenure in this home at this point.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Leaking isn't the window's fault here. Trim details and water management are all wrong around the windows. Do you feel like cutting back some stucco and trimming out the windows? If so, you can probably salvage them.

    Szara Loring thanked Windows on Washington Ltd
  • 10 years ago

    WoW - that's similar to what the first stucco contractor said. But he wanted to take out one of the worst windows as a test run to best assess how to fix the issues. I understand where he is coming from and the offending window needs to be replaced, but I don't feel comfortable starting this project until I have priced out my worst case scenario.

    Yes that would be an acceptable solution. To be honest I have no idea what trim details and water management corrective actions would be. Is there something I can read to educate myself on what this should look like?

    Should I be concerned that cutting back and trimming out the windows will leave obvious lines in the stucco? I can't find a good pic on google, but you've seen it - the older 40's home where the window has been replaced and the stucco repaired around the perimeter and although it matches you can see the obvious repair lines.

  • 10 years ago

    Also the interiors of those windows are not oak, that is all pine.

    Szara Loring thanked millworkman
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    You cut the stucco back on the level and plumb lines and trim it out with PVC trim. It is an exhaustive process, but when done correctly, the proper repair. I can explain it in more detail but I am strapped for time. Feel free to PM me and I can call you and walk you through it later.

    Szara Loring thanked Windows on Washington Ltd
  • 10 years ago

    Yep - thanks for that correction - the window interior is pine. The trim around the windows and doors is oak.

  • 10 years ago

    Ah ok, got ya.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The best thing to do is to have a moisture test done on the stucco to see where the non visible damage extends to. CMT testing is a good place to call (651-272-5552) a good stucco contractor would be Smith Cole Stucco and stone, they also have a good window installer on there crew. Moisture test first IMO. Whether or not the Windows can be salvaged they still are quite old. I would probably cap them in coil instead of pvc

    Szara Loring thanked toddinmn
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Which Donnelly were you talking to ?

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks Toddinmn. I'll give Smith Cole a call. It would be nice to have a couple bids just to compare the approaches. We had the moisture test done last summer so we know where the problem areas are, but I have to dig out the report to remember who. After the moisture test we talked with Tom Donnelly. My preference is to do as much work as I can afford to, but again I want to make sure that the right work gets done.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    May want to check companies with the BBB

  • 10 years ago

    So I'm back with another question. The first Sunrise dealer/installer to come out took one look at the job and said it was not something he wanted to tackle. That said, I did get a chance to see a Sunrise window in a showroom. They seem pretty nice. Having a little trouble finding a wood like finish that jives with the house. The lighter oak was too whitewashed, but the maple could be an option. It does not have to be all matchy-matchy. I have a second dealer/installer coming out next week to measure so that I can get a quote.

    In the meantime I'm sorting through product literature trying to understand the products and it looks the Sunrise Ultra U and Kolbe Lo-e 366 have basically the same performance except for CR and AI. Does this seem right? What am I missing? Are CR and AI important enough to drive my decision? I think I know the answer but want to hear your thoughts. The comp below does not include the triple pane because everyone I've talked to basically said "not worth it".
    Sunrise Ultra U
    Kolbe Classic Lo-E 366
    U Factor
    0.27
    0.27
    SHGC
    0.26
    0.2
    VT
    0.49
    0.43
    CR
    61
    43
    AI
    0.01
    0.05

  • 10 years ago

    Oops that table formatting got lost. Here is a image of the


    table

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Low-e 366 is neither required to recommended for your climate. I would definitely want something with a sub 0.20 U-Factor and better than 70 CR number for your climate.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Triples would be needed to get to u-value of 0.20 or better.

    I think with all of the Windows in your sunroom triples would be nice, I would also. I would also recommend something with a lower SHGC in the sunroom as they tend to overheat when there is a lot of glass vs wall area. To sum it up sunrooms can feel very cold in winter and hot in summer.I think 366 would be good for that room.

    The performance numbers that you listed seem to have a higher SHGC than they should for 366.

    i think the Andersens would be fine, there all going to fade after 20 years.

  • 10 years ago

    Hi - I'm back with a quote for the sunrise. This is all total for windows and installation. It includes pre-finished replacement trim for the jamb extension (casing?) and interior trim. The quote is for the Ultra-12 glass package and the total is 43k. Its light on the details and the stated window count is 17 casements, 2 awnings, and 2 half rounds. Those counts are really openings and not windows. I have 36 windows. The quote does not say anything about house wrap or sill pans; just full sash replacement. I met with the guy today and he mentioned how he was able to take advantage of several current promotions etc and how it would really be closer to 50k.

    To compare my other quote for the K&K windows is 58k. This is the total cost to me that includes the general contractors overhead and all installation. The quote that I have from that vendor is to the gnat's a$$. I have dimensions and price for each window. Probably because that quote had to go to the insurance company.

    I did not like the sunrise salesman. He was nice enough, but avoided talking in detail about anything. He also offered up Revere Berkshire Elite (vinyl) and Quaker (Aluminum clad wood) as options where I could "save" but the savings was maybe 5% for the Revere and 3% for the Quaker. I did not solicit for other products.

    My goal is to decide and place my window order by the end of the month. While I like the energy numbers on the Sunrise windows once I factor in the GC's fee to oversee the install (since I'm having stucco work done, etc.) it just does not seem like I'm saving significantly. So I'm on the fence.

    I guess my questions are 1.) does the sunrise window quote seem like it is in the right ballpark? 2.) any suggestions on how to get comfortable with the sunrise installer? (I've done Angie's List and the BBB - no red flags there) 3.) which will have better aesthetics once installed - or will I even be able to tell the difference?

    Thanks!!