Hey Todd, yes. The county will not let any windows be installed without DP50 and MI windows have that rating. In the house we're renting they surely used the cheapest windows they could possibly find. The house was built about 15 years ago and I don't notice and degradation in them today and they don't seem drafty or letting in much heat transfer. But like i've said, my perception of feeling is compared to what i've known which is terrible single pane drafty windows. I'd love to see an unbiased comparison of window performance.

I didn't look too closely at the PGT as they salesman said they're a better option when you go with impact rated glass and we've already ruled that out. With non-impact rated, they're only slightly more expensive than MI.

Interesting..on the Andersen site I saw them list AI for the 400 series at 0.2, which is apparently slightly higher than the MI. From what I read elsewhere is that a wood window option will always be less energy efficient in hot humid climates than any all vinyl option.

What negatives do you know about Viwinco? It seemed like a solid well made vinyl option.

I'm going to go take another look and focus more on construction quality. I don't mind spending more on windows if there is a good reason. I appreciate your feedback.

What line of MI Windows are you using, they have different models in there line up. When going with lower end windows it is advisable to use there top line of window. Even Jrld-Wen and Pella have ok windows in there top line vs there horrible low end ones.

Simonton may be a viable option if it’s availbe in your area.

The 0.20 air number is a blanket number Andersen uses across all of there lines. It is not the actual number they are just saying it test at 0.20 or lower. I think they do it this way now to avoid confusion. Most companies do not focus on that number and it does you no good since the windows in your are not going to have the low air numbers that a lot of pros on this board push.

" I certainly don't want a window that is drafty or needing to be replaced in 5-10 years. "

I'd have to agree with the others, that the product choice in question is incongruent with that goal. Most builder grade windows whether vinyl, wood, or whatever have a shelf life of 10-15 years or so before the performance has deteriorated enough to require replacement for most folks. One can argue where in the spectrum of builder grade windows that this one falls, but I don't think that many would argue that builder grade is an accurate description. There are worse windows out there to be sure, but there are also many better if long term performance is what you are looking for.

PGT is pretty well regarded, and then you have other top performers like Softlite, Okna, Sunrise, Polaris, and others that may be available to you.

Todd, I think the windows we were quoted was 1556. I asked if that was bottom of the line and I forget what they said...maybe that was the only version they had in single hung? Agreed though I need to look further into that. I've never heard anyone in this area recommend and version of Pella. They always say the windows leak/rot. Yet I still see a lot of commercial builders use them. I've never heard of Simonton so I don't think it's available in the area. Don't see it on any of the lumber yard's website

Homesealed - Yeah, i'm not trying to claim they are higher grade windows. But just that the people I know who use them still use them after many years and after all those years haven't had problems with theirs. So I'm wondering why not use them. I was hoping people would have data to show me why or how much lower grade they are than the others considered but I haven't gotten that unfortunately. People have different standards of what they consider good but if there was a site or chart or something that has data listed for various windows, I could make a better decision. The windows you mentioned are not available in this area from what i've seen. Not sure if it's because we're in a coastal, hot, humid climate. Thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely going to reevaluate things before making my decision.

NFRC ratings:

U value (insulation rating)

SHGC (solar heat gain)

VT (visible transmittance, essentially how dark the windows will be practically speaking)

CR (condensation resistance)-- probably not a huge concern in a hot climate

Structural ratings (sometimes referred to as "AAMA" ratings)

AI (air infiltration) self explanatory regarding importance

DP (design pressure) tests the deflection/strength of the window.

There are a few other ratings in each grouping, but in my experience these are most useful.

If you are looking for objective metrics to compare, that list would be a good start... Regarding the positive feedback on that product, I'd venture to guess that may be influenced by your climate. Air infiltration and product quality most certainly are still important in hotter regions, however poor performance may not be quite as noticeable there as it may be in say the Northern region. The more noticeable aspect for you would likely be the glass itself in cutting down on the heat gain.

Air infiltration is just as important in hot climates as it is in cold climates. No one wants hot/ humid air infiltrating their home. Thats not a very comfortable environment to live in. Nor is it conducive to energy efficiency,; your ac will be working more hence higher utility bills.

The 1556 Is a double hung it appears to be the same window as the 1650only with fewer bells and whistles. These are the only 2 windows in there double hung last me up.

If you do happen to find the air infiltration rating of the PGT let me know, I could not find it . Lettuce know which way you roll and what, I’d be curious to know.

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Todd, I'll try to get more info on PGT windows and post it. I'll definitely post what we're going with. Hoping to break ground in the next month. This is the North elevation view. I'm new to Houzz and don't guess there is an option to start a blog here, but we're thinking to start one and i'll post a link as well...especially if we end up going with MI.

Thanks again!

The other guys are not steering you wrong here. Run. Fast. To a different product. I'd actually run to someone that knows what they are talking about and cares about qulitity too if your guy is recommending these.

Ron, the dealer who recommended them to me did so because he used them in his house 15+ years ago and hasn't notice any degradation in them. I start thinking to go for Andersen 400s but i'm not convinced they'll perform better energy wise being a wood window. So if i'm just paying extra for aesthetics it doesn't make sense since I don't ever look at my window and hardly ever open them. We're moving to the country so we'll look OUT of the windows more often now, but I won't be looking at the window its self. A friend of mine told me he had Marvin Integrity windows quoted at a price less than the Andersen 400s so I'm going to look at those windows as well.

if your contractor is recommending MI Windows, he obviously has very low standards. I can only imagine what his prom date looked like.

I would not judge the quality of their date based upon their looks,

Have not seen the standard 400 series cost more than the wood ultrex before , perhaps the all Ultrex, but both typically have lower performance numbers than the MI. Pricing can vary much dealer to dealer so it is worthwhile looking into.

Don't buy MI WINDOWS you will regret it! We just spent $30k and got their 'sculpted sdl', What they advertised and what we got was completely different. Deceptive Advertising! The grid they did have on the windows was applied at the job site as they 'forgot' to add them on the order. They were applied by a random contracted company with a razor knife and to say they looked shoddy is an understatement. What's even worse is they are completely ghosting us. Customer service DOES NOT EXIST.

@CHSDIYER did you go with the MI Windows? I am considering the MI 1650 extreme vinyl double hung replacements, ran into your comments and agree with your method of thinking and I'll be going from 60 year old single pane garbage to these so I don't need the best, most likely anything will be better. so I'm looking for an unbiased opinion of them - thanks!

Rde0921

you are looking for an unbiased opinion? you just read about 50 posts that say MI Windows ( MI 1650) are not good, they are flimsy and leak air due to their high infiltration rating. Its a vety weak frame and MI Windiws are also cheap looking. Of course some “ jack of all trades” contractor will tell you “ he has been using them for years”. these types of contractors are budget type guys who use the cheapest products just to get the job.

Im guessing you are more concerned with cheapness opposed to quality ? If so, MI is the brand for you.

If you want to make a smart investment, here are some some quality brands: Okna windows, soft lite, sunsrise, or kensington. These windows are not only super efficient , strong, and air tight, they also look very nice and work very well in older and higher end homes.

unfortunately a true window pro will not recommend MI Windows.

Does anyone know if the 3540 line of MI windows are ok?

If a majority of a company's products are not reviewed favorably, I don't think I would trust even the product that they call their flagship.

Yes I agree but I was wondering if anyone has had them in their home for a bit.

What is your definition of “ok”? Will they spontaneously combust or fall out of your home? No, although the latter is debatable depending on the type of contractor that normally installs them. Can you probably find a much better window for the price? Yes.

Do you know if any that are much better with comparable prices in north Florida? I was quoted 10,,000 more for pgt or eastern architecture and can not afford it.

Have MI 1556 windows, new build in 2016. Shopping for new windows because the 1556 are crap, big time air leakage. Builder installed the cheapest of everything. R & L homes was the builder, steer clear of them as well.

Thank you, Kim. I wonder what the original poster went with...I think I will steer clear of these windows. My builders have the MIs on their bid. I will request an upgrade to another brand.

MI Windows are indeed builders grade. Expand your search and pay extra for quality that will last and provide you with good efficiency.

@Bethany Dellagnello Sorry to drop from this thread....We ended up going with Viwinco on the basis of another highly respected builder in town (who for other reasons turned out to be a con artist). The other guy i was talking with still stands by MI windows and for all intents and purposes, the energy efficiency of MI seemed just as good as any other. But I could see a difference in build quality of the Viwinco vs MI. The thing I don't like most about the Viwinco is there is a greenish tint to them. I think it has to do with the LowE rating or something. A tint is the one thing I told the window rep I didn't want and he assured me these windows have no tint. it's not terrible if the sun is shining directly on them but anything else and you can definitely see a difference. If the window is open you can see natural light vs light through single pane vs the coloring of light going through two panes (where the two sashes over lap). Definitely not a fan, but will say it's not specification limited to Viwinco windows, but they are good at blocking out the heat. We have a set of doors that don't have this tint and you can feel the heat coming through them! I can't advise on MI at this point but I have to believe if that's what your budget affords they're probably fine. I'm guessing they're cheaper for a reason but thousands of homes are built each year with lower priced materials and they're fine. Probably more important to make sure the people installing the windows do a good job!

Viwinco really isnt much better but then again you are dealing with a builder who probably doesnt have access to the higher quality offerings. Most builders have access to cheaper, lower quality window brands,

Vinyl is a tough market to navigate for home owners and builders as well.

The top brands are offered in limited markets to limited dealers and homeowners are forced to go to a third party to get them which often doesn’t make sense in a new home.

Even glass with no low E Will have a tint. Tinting can vary from brand to beam and even within the same brand depending upon the glass package used.

MI Windows stay far far away from it

its nothing but a piece junk, poorly made, stained, glue all over, terrible workmanship

a trained monkey could build a better window

This is kind of what we tell folks.

We bought MI Windows and it was the biggest mistake we made with the house... Wish we would have gone with PGT or Pella or Marvin. Come to find out PGT was around same cost but looks much better.... We have a more traditional home and purchased them with grids... what we got were grids that look like duct tape (super thin and flat and so cheap).... don't let their online pics fool you.. the windows we got look nothing like what is being advertised. We went back and forth with them for months - what a sham/false advertising. Also the 'grids' on there were not even to the window edges... there were gaps between them where they cut them too short but didn't even care... sent them over like that anyway.

To quote my buddy Windows on Washington, "This is kind of what we tell folks." And honestly Pella may not have been much better

Sorry to hear about your windows. We had Viwinco windows installed in late November and boy can we feel the difference! We live in Central PA and it's been pretty cold this winter. I've been able to wear short sleeve shirts all winter and its comfortable. No more drafts when sitting at the dining room table. Couldn't do that with the MI windows, was always cold.

You must have very low expectations, Viwinco is builders grade junk and cheap looking and just as bad as MI. No offense.

My condo that i just sold had viwinco windows.

Good riddance !

Watch out if you go with MI. Warranty is substandard and the quality and customer service are poor. Their windows melted siding, plastic car parts and even made paint bubble and they dont have any fix. Look somewhere else.

Thanks for the update. Sorry to see folks are still getting stuck with these type of scenarios.

I think the saying goes: "Buy cheap...and buy again".

If you are buying new windows for your house, would you get the MI 1650 or Simonton 5050... which is better?

"would you get the MI 1650 or Simonton 5050... which is better?"

Simonton all day, while still in need of an update in design and performance it is still a decent window, leaps and bounds ahead of anything MI, which is pure junk.

I asked contractor. He's saying MI 1650 is better than Simonton 5050 for these reasons:

- You're getting mi's top of the line window like the 5500

- It has white weather stripping recessed hardware and better standard features than the baseline 5500

- The glass package, reinforced meeting rail etc.

Are these important differences?

I wouldnt put either in my home, but i wouldnt evenput mi in the garden shed,

"He's saying MI 1650 is better than Simonton 5050 for these reasons:"

I would find another contractor........................

.........or don't use MI

".........or don't use MI"

My issue with this contractor is he actually believes that the MI is a better window..........................

If you are looking to added natural ventilation to your home, the .29cfm air leakage rating of the 1650 will do a fabulous job. Most folks however would prefer their windows not to leak copious amounts of air.

Thank you Mr. millworkman, and fridge2020, HomeSealed Exteriors. Aside from the laughs, I'm taking your warnings seriously.

Truly enjoying this conversation, thanks for all the info. I have large windows, a few are 83" and two are 96" high. My options are limited due to that size... I am planning to change all of them, ~18 windows damaged post hurricane Ida. Got multiple quotes, I was between JeldWen V-4500; Simonton 6500, and MI 5200. I am also looking into PGT option. But like many above, the very experienced contractor is recommending MI6200... Will probably not consider it after all above.

Jeldwen is really not much better than MI, and that is anything Jeldwen. All they really did essentially was buy 4 poor to mediocre at best window companies 20 years ago and then slap a new sticker on them honestly.

Nakhle Saba

Jeldwin are garbage. Why are you pricing out such low quality products?

Not my field of expertise, learning on the go. You don't get to change windows often I guess... I even started with Windows World, then I had Pella (size was a problem), then renewal by Andersen, then Andersen... Now waiting on CWS and PGT quotes from a trusted dealer in Alabama who could do New Orleans area... Most likely I will end up with Simonton, CWS, or PGT, top of their lines...

If you are from new orleans, do NOT call Katrina windows. They leak water and heavy winds. Their hurricane windows have a bad rep.