Where do you live that you will be planting tomato seeds now?

You could put up a fence around your garden to keep some of the critters out!

Good luck!

Linda

So here's the grand stratagem - me, the wife, and kid are having a 'contest'.

I ordered 6 packs of seeds from Tomatofest. They took 6 days to arrive, not bad, not great, but they came all the way from California.

None of us knew anything about the tomatoes, and the packs have generic pictures. I bought 3 early early types (is there such a thing?), and 3 early types.

My son had first pick, he took Stupice.

Wife took Beliy Naliv

I got stuck with Buckbees new 50 day organic

For the earlys, my son picked Northern Lights

Wife took Zarnitza

I got stuck with Sasha's Altai (I see Altai a lot, does it mean something?)

We put the seeds in biodegradable peat pots, about 3 inches, and used Miracle Grow potting mix, blue bag for seed starting.

First big surprise - the seeds are very small! The issue is, after we watered them, I can't tell if the seed is exposed or if its generic stones that came in the soil.

We did two seeds each pack- well my wife didn't follow instructions and put about 5 in hers. The 6 pots sit on the table exposed, normal air temp of around 70.

Was a fun time, all of 10 minutes!

Where are you? I can't think of anywhere in 7a where you'll have time to get ripe fruit outdoors. But, as a learning experience, I suppose... why not?

First mistake... using recyclable peat pots. Good idea in theory, but it rarely-to-never works out well. The peat just does not fall apart fast enough. In certain climates, it can take 2 years for them to give way. Since you've already sown the seeds, and your wife's are going to be a bit crowded anyway, the solution is simple... when the seedlings develop the first set of true leaves (basically, when the 2nd set of leaves emerge,) just gently tease the seedlings out of the soil and transplant them to planting cups. You can use yogurt/sour cream/ricotta style containers, transplant pots, solo cups, etc...

Put one seedling in each cup. Continue on...

Yep. Those peat pots also dry out very fast. One year when I grew some tomato seedlings in peat pots and others in plastic or yogurt containers, the ones grown in plastic/yoghurt pots did a lot better. That's not to say that you cannot grow in peat pots - many people do. As Rgreen says, they take forever to degrade, and people who use them tend to cut the bottoms off so that they will not stunt the plants.

It will be a fun competition to see who gets the first tomato!

Linda

Sounds like a bit of how-to research is in order first. Hopefully one learns to at least hold their breath before they jump in the deep end of the pool only to quickly drown. ;-)

Dave

You might be able to get some ripe tomatoes from the early ripening varieties if your October is frost free. You said you have animal problems, so you most likely have some land to work with. Please think ahead, like years, and be positive... Start a vegetable garden because once you tasted a home grown tomato, you will want to grow peppers, kale, carrots, lettuce, etc. So choose a 25' x 25' area to start with and fence it with wire fencing. I recommend 50' x 5' rolls, two will do. For the rest of the season, you experiment with tomatoes in there and grow vegetables for the fall. You will be thrilled with home grown veggies from now on and forevermore!

If the point is to enthuse the kids about gardening, be aware that you're likely setting up a disappointing first experience because of your late start. You don't say where you're located, but in the continental US, it's unlikely you'll get to harvest any fruit at all in zone 7a if you're starting from seed now. I would suggest also planting something that grows quickly from day 1 and is likely to actually give your family something to harvest and enjoy before frost, just so that this first experience comes with positive reinforcement at the end.

Suggestions:
- sunflowers
- runner beans (they like cooler weather for flowering and setting pods, so they should start giving you some fun later in Aug and through early fall)
- smaller-fruited cucumbers/cucumber relatives
-early bush habit squash. Some zucchini types have a DTM under 40 days. Also, a squash picked fresh from the garden is HEAVENLY compared to store-bought and will really reinforce how great home-grown produce can be.

Tomatoes are more of an intermediate veggie and not one to start at a serious disadvantage as you are now.

And bobolink makes a good point about cool-weather-loving greens. You could start getting ready now to plant a great fall garden.

Well let me think about it. A big part of the problem is my back yard has a septic field, and I don't think its ok to plant over the septic field, or is it? So all these are going into pots over the septic field.

But to take care of the animals, perhaps I should get a small fence.

Let me reiterate. If the issue is getting tomatoes, you're very late to be starting. You still don't seem to want to tell us roughly where you are, and if we don't know that, we don't know what to tell you about actually getting tomatoes. Getting seeds to sprout is easy. They'll do that without any help. Nurturing seedlings and transplanting into a prepared bed involves some real work (or are they going to stay in pots?)

I can't imagine why planting on a septic field is an issue, especially if they're going to stay in pots. Fencing strategy will depend a lot on which animals you're trying to avoid.

I'm not sure I hear many questions here. You might have loads, and we're here to help answer them.

Dan, I don't think he's here to ask questions...it's more like blog posting.

Septic field is fine, in fact the soil s/b the best. I agree with Dan and Donna is there a question here?

In average it take anywhere from 95 to 120 days from sowing seeds to having a ripe tomato. So we are looking into late October , that is if the weather is tomato friendly up until that time.

But then a little a little experiment should be fun and educational.

Sey

I'm excited for you! I really hope you all get at least one ripe tomato! :-) I bet your boy would love radishes. They are fast to sprout! We have plants on our septic field. No problem. Good luck!

You inspired me! I already have a couple packets to plant this fall. We live in a very mild climate, and we might get a couple days of frost, but we use Cloud Cover to prevent damage. I went online to your Tomatofest and ordered these: Boxcar Willie, Helsing Junction, Legend, Mrs. Maxwell's Big Italian, Green Zebra. A person could spend a fortune there! I think the little blue cherries will be fun at a party! The Green Zebra will be great to enhance salads when our lemons run out.

Well thanks. Again this is more of a test, not sure if we will continue with tomatoes, but for now its fun.

Don't worry too much about my son - he is 13 and homeschooled. It's more to get him out of the house and away from the computer games, etc.

The area over the septic field has far and away the most light. The rest of my 1/2 acre yard is rimmed with trees, so light is a huge factor.

The concern for the septic field is for the septic field - don't want to damage that, but it sounds like tomatoes wont. I wont plant an apple tree over it.

All the pots have sprouts now except one of mine, Dang, my wife put a lot of seeds in hers. Can there be more than one stem per seedling? One of my sons pots looks like it has 3, 2 real close together, and I thought he put just 2 in.

Nope. One stem per tomato plant - at that small stage.

Linda

Our family has this story passed down. One of our ancestors was a general in the Revolutionary army. Military all the way. He had a farm and instructed his son to plant one kernel of corn per hole. The kid got tired, and sometimes put two or three. When the old general came to check, he beat the kid for every multiple stem! That was the night the kid ran away and grew up in the woods. He married a Mowhawk princess and I've been known to go on the warpath now and then...! :-)

I see you are in Northern Virginia. I am zone 6 and started my seeds in March. You likely won't get anything from this batch . I had an aunt give me a seedling on father's day and it was so tiny I'm just now getting flowers. Don't let this experience stop you from trying again next year. It is completely worth it, you just have to start months and months sooner!

So last Friday I put 9 of the Beliy Naliv's outside in a big pot. They have a mesh covering being held down by a rock. I thought two of them died but they have regenerated twice. So far they are doing ok and their leaves are bigger than the other indoor sprouts.

I remembered reading somewhere I could bury them up to the leaves, so I did. Some had like one root when I pulled them out, perhaps I wasn't gentle enough, some had a little rootball. We'll see if they survive storms.

But now we have about 30 more Beliy Naliv sprouts, 2 to 3 inches tall and very skinny. We have about 12 Zarnitzas. I have just one Sasha Altai and Buckbee New, while my son has just one Stupice. His Northern Lights has not sprouted.

We've been putting them outside some (the whole tray with the 8 little bio degradable pots) to get some light.

I want to be careful of the three varieties that so far we have just one of each.

Michael C.: Some had like one root when I pulled them out, perhaps I wasn't gentle enough, some had a little rootball.

When transplanting seedlings from any kind of plant, you don't want to "pull them out". You will destroy all their roots, and if they survive, their development will still be delayed significantly as they have to replace the root system they lost. You basically want to move the entire rootball, along with all the soil surrounding it, i.e., you want to pop everything, plant, dirt and all, out of the pot in one piece and transplant that. If you have too many seedlings in the pot that you need to separate, then you want to pop everything out, gently shake off some of the dirt, then tease apart the seedlings' roots gently so that you spare as much of them as possible.

Ok gorbelly thanks, I will do that from now on.

If you plant in pots, make sure that it's a tall pot, with drainage. Tomato roots grow deep, unlike other plants. Have the pot at least a foot in a half tall. If your tomato leaves turn yellow, or have brown spots, cut the leaves off. If you have aphids, buy live lady bugs. Wait until dark, then release the ladybugs. The ladybugs eat aphids. Make sure to cage your tomato plants early.

So my wife went out when I was at work and put about another 15 or so Beliy Naliv sprouts in another big pot. She didn't bury hers up to the leaves. She also put a big rusty cage around them.

Which leads to the question - can you use a rusty cage? Does the rust matter for tomatoes?

What about sticks? Can we grab a broken tree branch around the yard and tie the tomato to the stick? Or will this bring on unwanted bugs?

Your wife is going to have to see which sprouts are strongest and then thin them out gradually. Each pot should only have ONE plant. She will hate doing it, but some will have to go!

Rust won't matter to the tomatoes, but I agree with Suzi. 15 plants in a pot is way too much. I would have at least a 10 gallon pot for one tomato plant.

I agree with the above 2 comments with this caveat... this late in the season, while 15 in a pot is WAYYYYYY too many lol, I wouldn't get too overly concerned with spacing. They aren't going to get full sized, nor produce as much as anything that has a full season of growth. Remember to just consider it a learning exercise and keep your expectations appropriate.

Sticks work just fine. They have to be strong enough for the task (that comes with experience - but again you aren't going to have 10' monster plants weighed done with 50 lbs of 'maters,) and they must be stuck down pretty deep to be secure (see above about how this might even be more important next year.)

Good point, rgreen. The plants are unlikely to mature anyway, so spacing and container size are not really that urgent. But it's always good to do things properly if one can, I suppose.

So I checked the outdoor Beliys this morning. The pot with the grate still has all 9 alive. Some of them are growing new leaves at the top - before they looked like litte propellers, now they are starting to look like plus signs.

My wife's pot has 15 or 16 Beliys in it, they actually look a tad bigger, but no new leaves. One looks like it has two stems together, but using 'Labradors rule' from above they must be separate seedlings, so 16 I guess.

In the house we still have about 10 more Beliys, about 10 Zarnitzas, 1 Sasha Altai, 1 Buckbees New Organic, and 2 Stupice - looks like 1 with two stems, but using 'Labradors rule' it must be two.

Some of these sprouts have the seed sticking out from a leaf. Are these any better or worse than the ones with no seed attached?

Michael C: Some of these sprouts have the seed sticking out from a leaf. Are these any better or worse than the ones with no seed attached?

If you mean the seed coat isn't letting the cotyledons (first "seed leaves") emerge at all and is trapping them inside, it could be a sign of older seed or seed with less vitality or not enough moisture during germination. If you mean that the cotyledons have emerged just fine but the seed coat is still stuck to the end of one of them, I don't think that indicates much. It just happens sometimes. If it bothers you aesthetically, you can pull it off gently, and even if you tear the end of the cotyledon off, there's no real harm done. I usually just leave it, since it doesn't harm the plant any.

I'm also a tomato noob trying my hand at them, and I'm trying it on a balcony, in pots that I'm pretty sure after many days of research are too small. But I've managed to finesse my way into them setting fruit, so I think I'll actually have tomatoes this year! (don't ask about last year, I still have PTDD- post tomato death disappointment). But this just goes to show; even if your crop doesn't produce in time, or fails entirely, there's always next season! And it makes you even MORE excited to see those first itty bitty green spheres nestled in amongst the sepal. Don't lose hope lol

Last Friday we put 4 sprouts in outdoor pots. These pots are not that big - maybe 8 inches across the top. I do not plan on getting more pots this year.

One Stupice is doing well, one Buckbees is doing ok but his pot is only half filled with soil and always looks wet, and 2 Sasha Altais. One of the Sashas died, so we now have 3 pots with one sprout each.

The 9 Beliys with a grate covering have about 8 to 10 leaves each, and have reached the top of the grate, so I took it off this morning. Perhaps they are 4 inches tall. They're in a bigger 12 inch across or so pot, but there's 9 in there.

The second batch of about 16 Beliys is doing fine - maybe only 1 died. So we have at least 25 Beliys outside, and maybe 10 more still inside.

On Friday my wife also put 5 Zarnitzas in a huge pot that already has a 2 foot tomato plant in it (store bought). Those 5 are doing ok.

Inside we still have about 10 more Beliy sprouts and 6 more Zarnitzas. Hopefully my wife will listen next year when I suggest trying 2 seeds per species :).

That 2 foot tomato plant needs more tying. I have 3 old hockey skate laces tied to a branch/stick I found.

What's a good thing I can order to tie up these plants?

Thanks!

I'd just grab a stick/stake/rod and tie with string for this year. Keep an eye that the string isn't too tight, or change it out periodically as they grow so it's not constricting.

Assuming that the Beliy Naliv (if that's what they are) tomatoes will grow to something like 5' tall, you will need something big and tall to hold them up. A 6' stake might work, and you should install it sooner rather than later to avoid damaging the roots. Failing that, you could see if there are still some tomato cages around for sale. Cages are never really tall enough (except for dwarfs) but they tend to be stable at least.

Stupice doesn't get that tall at 4' but will still need some support. A sturdy stick or a cage.

The rest are too overcrowded and won't come to anything, so no need to worry about staking them.

Linda

All my sprouts are outside now.

I took the two best Beliys and put them in there own pot. These pots are bigger than I thought, about 12 inches across, but I'm not sure about the gallons.

Attack!

Something tried to dig in one of the pots with the 16 Beliy's, not sure if it was a mole or squirrel or the dreaded gopher, but only about 8 remain.

Then a big storm yesterday seems to have killed off some more weaker sprouts.

I'm having doubts about getting any fruit, it's mid august and the biggest is maybe 5 inches. It still is fun for me to check though.

So, how about an update? How are your tomatoes fairing? =)

Micheal C, you are late for starting seeds this year, but you may get some fruits. Don't let this first try discourage you. Next year, buy a few Big Beef or Better Boy seedling at the local store and plant them May in good soil up to their top leaves. Tomatoes grow roots from the buried stems. You will get ripe tomatoes if they are in sun 6 hours a day.

Then maybe the next year try a few heirloom tomatoes. They won't produce as many fruits and the modern hybrids, but they will amaze your mouth. Happy gardening!

Well I think I may not get any tomatoes. Still hoping.
Many of the little sprouts disappeared or died.

We have had some animal attacks.
Sometimes something digs in the pot, and the little sprouts just get plowed over, seems incidental.

So I think I have a Buckbees in it's own 12 inch pot that is maybe 2 feet tall with about 20 leaves. Also a couple of Beliv's are a little shorter, but many more leaves.

Maybe 2 or 3 others, including a Sasha Altai, that are maybe over a foot tall a possibly have some chance.
But if as people said, they wont grow in October, well there's only 18 days left.

One lesson that I have learned - the lighting. So some of the sprouts we put in big pots, but deep in the pots - say the soil was only 4 inches high, the pot walls 12 inches. These hardly grew at all. The ones where the soil was all the way at the top, even if there were 15 in there, they grew well. Most likely not enough sun, right?

Also, I'm not sure about when to stake - some of these plants start looking like the old 'waterworks' card game, like a bunch of twisting water pipes.

On the bright side, these 7 or so tomato pots I have are on the perimeter of 5 more important pots - including our super cute new Gooseberry bush, and Chokeberry bush, with an apple tree in a pot in the center.

So far only the tomatoes on the perimeter have been attacked. The apple tree has grown like 3 feet in that pot, we never expected anything out of it, and now its over 6 feet (Chandler apple tree).

Oh - I don't really like tomatoes. But I've been trying them - and I am starting to really like the cherries. I bought a bin at Wegman's with some red, orange, and black cherries, and I like the black the best, and the orange the least, though still enjoyable.

So maybe next year if I start early and can keep the animals away (rabbits havocked 2 or 3 apple trees, a ground hog may be around now, and a bazillion squirrels) I can try some cherry tomatoes.

Thanks!

(p.s. - that little Gooseberry bush is sooo cute!)

Well, you knew you weren't likely to get any tomatoes this year.

Re: staking--you have to do it at plant-out in order to cause the least amount of damage to the plant and its roots. Have whatever support system you plan on using in place when you transplant into the final place or container, then train/tie/weave plant as it grows. If you're going to grow cherries, be aware that many cherry tomato plants are huge and can grow to be 8-10 feet long if grown in-ground or in a large enough container, so be prepared for that.

Re: animals--if you start your plants at the right time next year, they will be large enough to survive the odd chipmunk digging a hole in the pot once you plant out. They may still get eaten by deer, but if you really want a garden and you have deer issues, you'll need a fencing solution of some kind in place.

We had a bunch of rain, and for other assorted reasons, I didn't get to check up on my plants for almost two weeks.

Everything's a mess! All the plants are sneaking into each others pots! I cant even remember what's what anymore. And also the raspberry plants are intruding onto a bunch of pots too.

But I do actually have some flowers. I'm not sure if anything will grow or even get pollinated. I tried using a cue tip, but I felt unconfident.

Now a hurricane may be heading our way! Probably if it does it will be 80 mph wind or less, but I wonder if my pots on the ground will be ok.

Michael C.: But I do actually have some flowers. I'm not sure if anything will grow or even get pollinated. I tried using a cue tip, but I felt unconfident.

Pollination of tomatoes is a bit different from most flowering plants. A q-tip is the wrong approach. First, many tomato varieties have stigmas that do not protrude outside the flower and therefore can't be accessed unless you take apart the anther cone. Secondly, even varieties with exerted stigmas (protruding outside the anther cone) have hard-to-access pollen because tomato anthers are enclosed in the anther cone and, additionally, tomato anthers are hollow structures that encapsulated the pollen inside them. Because of this, tomatoes need some help in releasing pollen, which usually comes from wind (less effective) and from the movements of pollinators (most effective).

Most tomato flowers are pollinated by themselves; wind or pollinators knock loose the pollen from the anthers inside the anther cone, and that pollen lands on the end of the stigma inside that same flower and pollinates the ovules.

So a human who wants to give the tomatoes a hand will be most effective by mimicking that motion necessary for pollen to release from the anthers inside the anther cones. People do this by shaking vines, tapping blossoms, or, most effectively, using something like an electric toothbrush to sonicate the blossoms like a bumblebee (when you do the latter, you will see a puff of pollen come out of the anther cone).

It's late for fruit set now--unlikely that fruit will mature fully before frost--but it's something to keep in mind for next year.

Here's a good article on tomato flower pollination.

No, our pots are NOT going to be okay. You're going to have to bring them inside if they're small enough, maybe get some help from a friend to support the tops. Mine are strung up to my balcony railing and are about 9 feet tall, so I'm going to have tie the leaves up to the string and wrap it all tightly with burlap and secure it all to the rails better, then pray lol...good luck, fellow east coast gardeners!

What is it that will kill the tomato plant. Is it freezing temperature - when it gets to 32 deg. or below? Or is it frost? If it's frost, what exactly is the difference? What do I look for on the weather report?

Thanks!

It's when the water in the tomato plant can freeze. In principle, that's 32F. But because of wind, moist surfaces can get colder than the ambient temperature, so you can get frost at slightly higher temperature. Either way, tomatoes are toast (or, er, icebergs).

I actually have 3 or 4 tiny tomatoes!

We have had a couple of nights here in the high 30's, it looks like I'll have at least 2 more weeks until a frost. Are still expecting 2 or 3 more days in the 70s.

But a lot of the plants are dying. And I'm worried squirrels will steal them.

Can I pick a half grown tomato and have any use for it?

"Can I pick a half grown tomato and have any use for it?"

For tomatoes, 'half-grown' isn't really the entire consideration. Until a tomato begins to 'break', it can be difficult to know what size it will become, or when maturity is close. The term 'break' is basically when the color begins to change. With experience, you'll learn other signs, but in general, the use of a tomato is more determined by maturity than how much it has 'grown'.

If a smaller tomato does begin to 'break', or show a lightening of color, then it can ripen off the vine. Many of us will leave such fruits on the vine, but because tomato plants are so cold sensitive, we'll pick them all the night before a frost.

The breakers can be put somewhere to ripen (there are methods for helping this process along successfully), and the green ones (I think these are what you mean by half-grown) can be used to make an absolutely delicious meal of fried green tomatoes. There are actually many things you can do with green tomatoes, but if you only have a few, then frying them up with a seasoned flour and cornmeal coating is, especially here in the south, a favorite.

If I have a lot, I use green tomatoes in stir fries like any other veggie. I especially like the ones that show a little orange on the green. They add a nice tang to a stir fry.

Green tomato relish is another popular use.

Oo, stir fry. That's a good idea. Thanks, rgreen!

Rough chopped in big chunks and roasted simply with salt, pepper, and olive oil until they get a little caramelization on top, they make a nice addition to casseroles. Add some chopped herbs, and they're a nice topper for rustic toast, make a nice addition to omelettes, etc. I admit, I like to put them on bagels along with cream cheese and some raw sweet onion.

As Seysonn point out elsewhere, the really young, hard, green ones make great vinegar brine pickles, both sour and bread-and-butter. If you only have a small quantity, you could make a small jar of refrigerator pickles.

In the end I got 5 tomatoes, don't think any were ripe. One was bigger than a golf ball, 3 were about a nickel size, 1 even smaller. My wife ate one, the other 4 never turned any color in the kitchen.

In the end, I'm wondering if it was not weather but perhaps lack of me fertilizing?

I'm pretty sure I will try again next spring. I will make sure to just get 1 or 2 of each plant, not 29, etc.

I'm interested in maybe trying a squash and possibly an onion also.

Michael C: In the end, I'm wondering if it was not weather but perhaps lack of me fertilizing?

I don't mean to sound mean, but it was well established from the beginning of your experiment that you started too late to ever have a realistic chance of seeing much ripe fruit. Don't start troubleshooting more esoteric details when the big problem has always been staring you in the face. This year, you started late and decided to take your chances just to see what would happen. Well, you saw what would happen. No big deal, no surprise. Next year, you start on time, and things will go better. No amount of fertilizer or ideal weather is going to compensate for inadequate time for the plants to mature and produce fruit.