Thank you for Your reply, I was actually wondering about what a pre pay penalty was. It sounds ridiculous but somehow they are able to get away with it. I have also heard a lot of stories from borrowers who say their payment went up without an explanation, I'm guessing this was because they had a variable interest rate? I could go on about the horrible things I've read about 21st mortgage, it's just scary but I know there are very few options for these type of loans

I just thought of another thing, with a pre payment penalty does that mean I can't sell my home if I wanted to? What if I'm shopping lenders and they all enforce this "penalty"? Can I refuse to the term if I get a lawyer involved?

Prepayment penalties are not common at all when you use a good lender. But you always ask to see if it's there no matter who you go with for the loan.

Before the crash, people were getting adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs) because they were greedy. They would max out at $X per month. The predatory lenders said "for that same 5% fixed rate monthly payment you can get this larger house than that small house with an ARM. But nobody told these buyers that sure, they can get a 2% ARM, and when the interest rates went up to 3%, the payment that they were maxed out at, went up 50%.

People started defaulting on their mortgages, foreclosures were abundant and it started the spiral that led to the housing crash of 2008. Naturally, it was all the lender's fault.

Hi lovemychai7,

What Christopher_H said. Knowledge is power. Read every single word of your loan agreement and understand it. If you can afford an hour of attorney time, have an attorney read it and explain it and answer all your questions. Don't rely on the lender or the sales rep to explain it. It might seem like a lot of money to go over it with an attorney, but it could save you tens of thousands of dollars in the long run. Make sure it's someone versed in these kinds of loans.

Christopher was being facetious, but he's right. Many people were so eager to own a home that they didn't bother to read the contract. And then they got burned when the housing bubble burst. OTOH, (on the other hand), many lenders counted on that. They also intentionally duped uneducated people, and desperate people.

Understand all the reasons your monthly payment could go up. One late payment could trigger a hike in your interest rate. They may retain the right to sell your loan to another lender who will raise the interest rate. Early payment penalties are perfectly legal (unfortunately).

If you're buying a home to put on a lot in a park, and will rent that lot, you're not not getting a traditional mortgage. In most states, MHs are not considered real estate, unless they are on a permanent foundation on land that is owned by the owner of the MH. MHs on rented land are actually considered vehicles! My house has a license plate on it, a VIN #, and my title looks exactly like the title to my minivan. Yet, my house is appraised by the county and I have to pay property tax.

So, what you're getting is essentially a really big car loan. If you have excellent credit and can put down a substantial down payment, and have a great income to debt ratio, you will do better than if you don't. Also, be sure to understand when they can evict you and take your home. It might take a lot less than you think.

Read and understand your rights. In Washington, where I live, we have a whole set of laws pertaining specifically to people who own an MH in a park where you rent the space. I'm guessing California does too. Know your rights and responsibilities!

I personally would not buy a home from any of the companies owned by Buffet, nor would I take out a loan with them. There are other lenders.

You asked about used MHs. They are much more difficult, if not impossible, to get loans for, because they tend to depreciate quickly.

That has a silver lining, though. You can buy a good home in good condition for pennies on the dollar. Foreclosures are often a great buy! If you could afford it, I'd recommend buying a home less than 10 yrs old for cash. Even better if you can buy a home in the park you want to live in.

Don't let Warren Buffet scare you out of buying a MH. They are great homes and you can get so much more for the money!

My last piece of advice: don't get the very most expensive house with the largest monthly payment you can possibly afford. If one thing goes wrong, you're done.

I hope this helps! Please feel free to ask questions any time. :-)

Debbie B Thank you for your helpful response. It helps to know that there are others out there like you who had a positive experience and *hopefuly* you still are. May I ask if you bought your home new or used? Did you pay cash or did you use a lender for a loan? My other concern is the rent hikes at MHPs. I have a cap in my mind of how much I can afford to spend per month on my mortgage and rent with a *little* wiggle room but not a huge hike, I worry that the rent will just go up and up and up until I'm living just to make ends meet, that's not the life I want to live (or anyone for that matter). I've been looking around at the MHP rents in my area and they are around 1000-1700 per month! Some are lower but I wonder if there is an introductory rate all homeowners get when they first purchase and move into a MHP or if that's the starting point and it goes up from there. I've read about some who offer a 5 year lease to start that basically locks in your rent rate then after that all bets are off. What has your experience been in the MHP you live in? How often do they raise the rent and by how much each time? Also, do you know where I can find Info on lenders in my area. sorry for the arsenal of questions! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I need all the help I can get!

Hi lovemychi7,

Holy crap! (Excuse my French.) That is a HUGE rent payment! I guess it's California, though. So to answer your question about the rent going up and up, this is where you need to look up the laws in California that pertain to people who rent lots in a MHP. Google "renter's rights in manufactured home parks California."

Of course, they can't raise your rent during the term of your lease. Find out if, when your lease is up, you automatically become a month to month renter. If this is the case, I suggest you immediately sign another lease that will protect you for another year, even if there is an increase.

In Washington, under the rights of MHP renters, MHP owners can only raise the rent with several months' notice, and only by a certain amount. Still, over the years, even incremental small increases can add up.

So know, in California, how often an MHP can raise the rent, by how much, and what kind of notice they have to give you. You're right--no one wants to live hand to mouth.

Oh, I should also mention that if there's an "introductory " rent amount, after which time the rent will go up from X to Y, they would have to disclose that to you. I've never heard of this, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

As far as lenders in your area, I'm afraid I'm not much help. :-( Where in CA are you? I can try to do some research. I'm a researcher by profession, so that will be no trouble for me. If I were in your shoes, I'd start with my local banker. Depending upon your credit rating, amount of money on deposit with them, etc., they may be willing to give you a personal line of credit. If not, they may have leads on MH lenders in your area. If that proves to be fruitless, I'd next do a Google search.

But be careful! If you read the Seattle Times article, then you know that both Clayton and their lenders operate under many different names! (If not, there's a link to it in the thread, "I found some helpful resources," or something like that.) The article talked about how unaware buyers thought they were "shopping around" by going to the five MHP sales lots in their area when, in reality they were all owned by Clayton! Same with the lenders.

So do your due diligence, research, and find out the parent company of the sales lot, and of any lender. If the sales people try to push you into using their preferred lenders, that could be a red flag. Not for certain, but check it out.

My story is somewhat unique, but I'm happy to share it with you. Goodness knows, everyone else on this forum is probably sick of reading about it, hahaha! But it may be helpful, at least in some aspects.

It was a warm spring day in April, 1960...haha! OK, let's move forward to 1973. I was 13 and my parents, thanks to proceeds from the sale of our tiny, tiny home in central CA and an inheritance from my grandpa, bought a brand new DW (double wide) in the Seattle area in a MHP where everyone owned their lots. (This may be an option you could check out in your area.)

We kids thought it was a mansion, haha! It was so much bigger and so much nicer than the little house we had previously lived in! So I had a very positive experience with MHs. By the way, they paid $69,000 for the home and lot in 1973. They sold it in 2007 for just over $200,000! So, the value of a MH doesn't always go down, especially if you own the land under it. They had no clue the crash was right around the corner; they just got lucky.

OK, fast forward to 2015. I have a close friend whose daughter owned this MH. The daughter is actually in ND, but her parents, my friend and her DH, had been living here for several years because of financial difficulties. My friend has a serious mental illness...she is a hoarder and a shopaholic. If you've ever seen the show "Hoarders," it's exactly like that. No joke. This entire house, all 930 sq. ft. of it, was floor to ceiling stuff. I sometimes use a walker, and I couldn't get it in the front door! I walked around with my cane, terrified I would fall into the hoard!

I knew all this because I went to Zambia for a year in 2014-15 to conduct research. I gave up my apartment and put all my stuff into storage. I stayed here with my friends for a month before I left and for a month after I returned, which was September 2015.

Because of the weight of the hoard, and the extreme negligence of my friends, the house was in horrible condition. They themselves did not know the extent of the damage because they literally could not see it under and behind the hoard. They knew the electrical system was failing, and they knew there was "some" water damage (actually, it's extensive water damage). Oh, did I mention the three dogs and two cats who all went potty in the house, some more than others?

Anyway, in October my friend told me they and their daughter were planning to sell the house for scrap for $4,000. They had come to hate this house because of the hoard, and they wanted to get out of here and start over fresh.

Long story short, I agreed to buy the house for $2,000. Even though I didn't actually buy it until this January, I immediately put $1,000 into it. I snow coated the roof, which put an immediate stop to the roof leaking (which was nothing compared to every window in the house leaking), and I put in a refurbished heater.

The other thing I did in October was that I found this forum. I READ THE ENTIRE FORUM, EVERY SINGLE THREAD, EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE!! If I could give you one single piece of advice, it would be to do the same--read this forum!t Even if it takes a long time! I did it in a couple of weeks, but I dropped everything else in my life to do that, and I recognize not everyone can do that. But I'm telling you, it's like taking a master class from the experts--real people who actually own MHs! I've done other research, but nothing compares to the knowledge I got here. Nothing. The two people who have been the most consistently helpful through the years have been Christopher_H and cathyyg. Luckily for me--and you!--they are both still active on the forum. Other helpful folks who pop in from time to time are desertsteph, shadesofidaho, and of course I'm drawing a blank, but there are others. A bunch of us are also very active on the "smaller homes" forum, and you are more than welcome to come join us!

So I'm very glad you think I've been helpful, because this is my way of paying it forward. Someday I hope you'll come here to help others! :-)

TO BE CONTINUED...

So I bought the house in January for $2,000 cash. My 30 year old daughter, Joy, and I moved in March 1. The previous owners had taken two large U-Hauls and numerous minivan loads (about twenty!) out of the house. They also put everything that was trash/garbage and items that were destroyed into trash, outside on the lawn, at my stupid suggestion. It completely filled half of my good sized yard and it took FIVE TRAILER LOADS to haul it all away!

They abandoned the rest. Debbie, you mean there was more? YES! Hahaha! So much more! Two bedroom were still so full you could barely get inside! The living room now had a path wide enough for my walker. The bathroom was filled with more hair products than ten Kardashians could use in a life-time, and the kitchen was unusable.

It took Joy and me three months to get rid of the hoard...we kept track and it was about 300 hours, or seven weeks if we had put in forty hours a week. There was actually a lot of nice stuff that we kept, like the living room set and tons of kitchen stuff, like a beautiful set of stainless steel cookware in new condition.

It took us another month to clean. Needless to say, the house was absolutely filthy underneath the hoard! After we had done all we could do, on July 5, the movers came and moved OUR stuff in! Joy looked around at all the boxes and said, "Now it looks like WE'RE the hoarders." LOL! We're still unpacking, sorting, and giving away tons of stuff!

So why on God's green earth would I take on a challenge like this wreck of a MH??!? Well, I could see that while the house is a fixer-upper, to put it kindly, it IS fixable. And I have a unique financial situation. Besides my regular paycheck, I get a research grant of several thousand dollars three times a year. I need some of it to live on and some of it for my research, but not all of it. I live very frugally--some would say cheap, haha-- and I have always believed in living below my means. So I bought this house for $2,000 cash, fully furnished, as I like to say, lol! :-) I literally have a ten year plan to rebuild it from the subfloor to the roof, Lord willing. The reason it will take ten years is because I will pay cash for everything as it becomes available. In September I hope to have the entire house re-wired because the current system is failing fast; in fact, we'll be lucky if it lasts until September. In January a minisplit will be put in, and next June, all new floors! Next projects will be new siding, new roof, bathroom remodels, bedroom updates, living room updates, kitchen total gut and remodel, then, God willing, a big enclosed three season deck. Concurrently, we'll be working on the yard and doing room updates. I'm giving my kitchen a "facelift" right now. I'm also factoring in that the hot water heater and washer and dryer will fail at some point.

This was my path to home ownership. A weird path, I agree, but "I did it my way," to quote Ole Blue Eyes, haha! And I'm doing it for Joy. I want to die knowing that the will always have a roof over her head.

Oh! I almost forgot! The lot rent. Well, you're gonna hate me, hahaha! This MHP is waaay out in the country. We're literally surrounded by farms. I'm within walking distance of cows! I drive past two signs I've never seen in my life--a cow crossing and a tractor crossing! We're a tiny, 38 home park in the middle of nowhere in eastern Washington, which is already a LCOL (low cost of living) area. My lot rent is $300 a month and includes water (well) and septic. <she waits to hear the scream all the way from California > :-) It was $247 when I bought the house, but had gone up to $300 when I signed the lease. $247 had been the rent for nearly a decade. A new owner bought the park a couple of years ago. He's actually a really nice guy! He's making a lot of improvements to the park, so I understand the rent increase. The person at the management office, who I've become good friends with, told me he plans to keep it at $300 for "many years to come." He will probably have to for two reasons: a) because rents are low all over the county and we are so far out in the country that he'd never find new renters to come out this far if the rent wasn't so low, and b) most of the renters are elderly, on a fixed income, and have literally lived here for decades. They'd not be able to afford higher rent, and then what would he do? Evict 90% of the residents? My MH is neither the oldest nor in the worst condition, haha! I see maybe five homes that are in good enough condition to move.

I'll ask over at the smaller homes forum to post over here so you can hear stories that are more typical. And perhaps folks here on the MH forum can chime in!

And finally, to answer your question, YES I am very, very happy in my MH! I love it, actually. Working on this house will be fun for many years, and I get to build it however I want and put my own stamp and personally into it.

Sorry this post is so long! I really hope it is helpful. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions!

THE END ;-)

Oh, my. Yes, they can raise the rent during the course of the lease if the lease says they can, and mine does, at least in my state. We have lived in this park not quite 5 years, and the rent has increased from $315 to $345 in that time. That is not terrible, as at least one major park chain has as an investor goal 5% to 10% lot rent increases annually. The first $10 increase was due to excessive extra dumpster emptying fees caused by people who live outside the park dumping construction debris in our dumpsters. The second $20 increase was during the current 3 year lease, and was due to a substantial school millage/property tax increase. But we too live in a small rural community in an economically depressed area, ours in SW Michigan.

Introductory lot rent rates are common here, usually in conjunction with buying a home from the park or moving a home into the park.

We paid cash for our home, brand new, customized to our preferences. We did it because we had some non-negotiable needs that we could not have met in a used home. Overall, buying a used home is a better financial option than buying new. Like cars, manufactured homes depreciate. We knew that coming in to our home. But buying new allows you to choose the invisible upgrades to insulation, studs, roof pitch, and subfloor that you may not get in a used home.

This is why I love this forum! So many perspectives. And cathyyg proves both our points: to KNOW your rights and responsibilities in your state. Apparently in Michigan, they can stipulate in the lease that they can raise the rent during the course of a lease. That is not legal in Washington. So in my park right now, it's only a few of us paying the $300 a month rent; most are still paying the $274 (I got my digits backwards in previous post: rent was $274, not $247 , before it went up to $300.) However, everyone knows when their lease is up, rent will go up to $300.

Cathyyg, that is why I prefer individual garbage cans over community dumpsters. This was a terrible problem at an apartment complex I lived in over in the Seattle area. Not so much construction materials as people in other areas who didn't want to pay for garbage service and would just take their trash/garbage to our complex and dump it in our dumpsters. It got so bad they finally hired a security guard--for the dumpsters! Haha!

Ah! I'm glad I said just because I'd never heard of introductory rates didn't mean they didn't exist. I've learned never to say never on these home forums, lol!

And...a 5%-10% lot increase per year! Wow! That would price me out of the market in a few short years! Yikes!!

One thing I forgot to mention--find out what the process is in your state if the MHP land is re-zoned and sold for a use other than a MHP. In Washington, they have to give you one year's notice. The state has funds available for helping people either move their MHP, or move into something else. It's for low income families, and the maximum amount of aid is $7,000. However, it was footnoted in the document I read that the MHP moving fund was on the block for elimination in the next budget round.

I hope I'm not coming across as over dramatic or down on MHPs and MHs. I don't mean to. As I said, I love my MH, and I Iove my MHP too! I have the nicest neighbors I could ever hope to meet. The park owner is nice too. In an effort to make the park look better, he didn't merely order everyone to clear out debris from their yards and decks. Instead, he brought his big pickup and trailer around the park for two days and he himself, with two helpers, picked up and dumped anything people had outside that they said he could take. Having quite a few elderly folks here, it was extremely helpful and effective--everyone, almost, in the park thinks he's great.

So, going back to Christopher_H's first response... Just know what you're doing. Like any other big life decision, do your homework, consult people you trust, and then make the best decision you can. You'll be fine! :-)

Check with banks about getting a mortgage. We financed our used(2 years old)MH through our bank in 1995. They were happy to do it. We got a 15 year mortgage. They wanted to go longer but we didn't. We paid it off in 12 years.

Several years ago they were happy to give us a home improvement loan for 7 years. Both loans were traditional mortgages. They financed the full sale price of the home plus the amount we needed to move it and put in a septic tank on land we already owned. They were so easy to work with.

I'll also add that we have always had our insurance with State Farm. The original owners did too. All we had to do was switch the policy into our names and over to our agent. They have been easy to work with when we have had claims .

my advice would be to shop around and do your homework with regards to financing.

Becky makes a good point. Talk with your banker first. She or he can help you find trustworthy options for financing your home.

However, the big difference here is that Becky had land she already owned. Banks typically don't underwrite traditional mortgages for MHs that are in parks or any rented land. In most states, if not all, MHs are only considered real estate if they are on a permanent foundation (not on piers) AND on land owned by the owner of the MH.

I know very little about insuring MHs. Many people on this forum speak highly of Foremost. My home is too old for me to be able to buy homeowners insurance, so I have renters insurance with Geico.

Becky, where do you live? It's awesome that you were able to get such a good mortgage, and no doubt State Farm is one of the best! :-)

Wow I just logged in and saw such an oerwhlmkngamount of helpful responses! Thank you Debbie B for taking the time to share your story! Do you have a thread with pics of your home? I would love to see what you have done with it! I did look up "Clayton Corp" on Wikipedia and just lie that all the names of lenders and other mh manufacturers that operate under them came up in a compiled list, so I saved it for reference. I honestly don't mind if I buy a home operated under Clayton I'm mostly worried about the lender. So far it seems like 21st mortgage is their main lender. There is also Triad and Vanderbilt and another one I can't think of the name right now. I've been heavily researching used Mhomes (used as in only a couple years old) and I've been researching lenders and it looks like there are a few that do loans for used MH. I have also been looking at dealers who sell new homes straight out of the MHP, I figured I could save the 23-35k the dealers are trying to charge for delivery and Install (I'll never see that money again..can you say RIP OFF!) alive also been researching the ultimate goal of mine which is buying land and doing a conventiona FHA loan using a land/home package, with a mortgage loan I would be more protected I think. Only problem with that is the lack of affordable land available for sale in Southern California. I feel like I can't win. And then I stated researching traditional FHA on a condo but all inventory in my price range is about 100 miles out from where my life is. Sorry I'm rambling haha My free time is literally spent researching! I plan on buying the Grissim guide as well.

Becky Grimes Like Debbie said I think you were able to do a traditional mortgage loan because your Mh is on land that you own which makes it a piece of real estate property, however, I wonder if my bank would give me a personal loan for my Mh purchase (just the home alone be to be put in a park). If anyone knows the answer to that that would be great! I do plan to shop lenders once I have a little more money in the bank and I have everything ready to go. Thanks again all of you for all your help!

Wow I just logged in and saw such an oerwhlmkngamount of helpful responses! Thank you Debbie B for taking the time to share your story! Do you have a thread with pics of your home? I would love to see what you have done with it! I did look up "Clayton Corp" on Wikipedia and just lie that all the names of lenders and other mh manufacturers that operate under them came up in a compiled list, so I saved it for reference. I honestly don't mind if I buy a home operated under Clayton I'm mostly worried about the lender. So far it seems like 21st mortgage is their main lender. There is also Triad and Vanderbilt and another one I can't think of the name right now. I've been heavily researching used Mhomes (used as in only a couple years old) and I've been researching lenders and it looks like there are a few that do loans for used MH. I have also been looking at dealers who sell new homes straight out of the MHP, I figured I could save the 23-35k the dealers are trying to charge for delivery and Install (I'll never see that money again..can you say RIP OFF!) alive also been researching the ultimate goal of mine which is buying land and doing a conventiona FHA loan using a land/home package, with a mortgage loan I would be more protected I think. Only problem with that is the lack of affordable land available for sale in Southern California. I feel like I can't win. And then I stated researching traditional FHA on a condo but all inventory in my price range is about 100 miles out from where my life is. Sorry I'm rambling haha My free time is literally spent researching! I plan on buying the Grissim guide as well.

Becky Grimes Like Debbie said I think you were able to do a traditional mortgage loan because your Mh is on land that you own which makes it a piece of real estate property, however, I wonder if my bank would give me a personal loan for my Mh purchase (just the home alone be to be put in a park). If anyone knows the answer to that that would be great! I do plan to shop lenders once I have a little more money in the bank and I have everything ready to go. Thanks again all of you for all your help!

PS I am having issues with my account hence the 3 different SN you are seeing me under haha I attempted to delete my previous response under another SN to help eliminate the confusion but not sure if it is still showing or not. If you see this comment twice just disregard the first one. Still trying to figure out how to use this forum

OK, now I'm confused, lol! Mamabear and lovemychi7, are you the same person? No double posts, though. That happens to me once in a while. Sometimes I can delete one, but sometimes if I delete one, they both disappear. Desertsteph, who posts on here and on "smaller homes," told me to copy one, and then if they both disappear I can just paste it into a new post. DOH! Don't know why I didn't think of that, haha!

The brand new MH my parents bought in 1973 was in a MHP where everyone owned their own lot. The developer was also the MH dealer and the GC. My parents flew up to Washington (from central CA), went through the model homes, picked one out, picked out the lot they wanted, wrote a check, and wham bam, done, lol! They were on city water and sewer, and they had regular homeowners insurance.

The other factor, with both Becky and my parents is they both bought B.C. -- Before Crash. :-) A LOT of lenders really took a bath with MHs when the crash happened. But Becky did a great thing by paying off a 15 year mortgage in 12 (obviously no prepayment penalty there). She was in very good standing with her bank and was able to get the remodeling loan when she needed it.

YES you may be able to take out a personal line of credit from your bank to buy the MH alone. Like any personal loan, it depends on two things--your credit score and your cash (or collateral) deposits. They will treat it like a really big auto loan. If you're in the position to swing it financially, I agree a MH/land deal as a regular mortgage would be a better deal in the long run.

Yes and no on the "rip-off" of setting your home on land and hooking it up to utilities. Yes, in that you may not recover that money if you sell, especially if you sell quickly. But no, in that it is a very expensive thing for the dealer and/or the GC. Cities and counties have very high cost permits they must obtain to move a MH, and if you're moving it from one county to another, that permit cost just doubled. The workers who set your MH on a slab or piers are (hopefully) specialists who know how to level the home, marry the two halves, if it's a DW, and hook up utilities, which is a lot more involved than just plugging it in. That is one real advantage of buying a used MH that's already in a park you want to live in, or on property you want--someone else already paid for all that stuff.

May I just say I think you are really doing this in a very smart way! Way to go doing your research and finding the Wikipedia article! A fair number of people come to this forum with little or no knowledge about MHs. There's no shame in that. A person can't know everything about everything. The shame is in them not taking any initiative or responsibility for researching and learning about what they don't know. A home purchase, be it any kind of home, is often the biggest and most important financial decision of their life, and thus demands a good deal of the buyer's time and dedication--or at least it should. So kudos to you for taking it seriously and doing it the right way!

California--what can I say? I spent 12 years in central CA as a child, then 12 years in central CA as an adult, married with kids, then 2 years as a single adult, kids grown up, in San Diego. The other 30 yrs of my life: 3 yrs in Oregon, 2 in Mexico, 1 in Zambia, 24 in Washington. Can you say "west coast girl," except Zambia, hahaha! I love SD, but I can't afford to live in CA. It's just way too expensive to rent or buy there.

Good luck as you go forward! Please don't hesitate to ask any questions or to post any knowledge you may come across. :-)

I'll be posting my kitchen update soon; thanks for asking! :-) I'll be setting up my blog about my experience renovating this MH soon too. I'll post a link to it when it goes live.

Sincerely,

Debbie

I have been considering buying a home that is already in a park. I know a lot of dealers around here have new ones they sell that are already "installed", the only issues with that are finding one and in the right park that fits my needs, also I'm very suspicious that they sneak in the delivery and install fees because really why would they pick up the tab for that right haha also if the MH is even a couple years old will I be able to get a loan to buy it and lastly how would I know there weren't "mistakes" made during install since I wasn't there to make sure it was done correctly or have an inspector look it over. *sigh* so many things to think about. I swear everyday I have a new "plan", I'm constantly going between buying a mh to put in a park, buying a mh/home/land package to try and do an FHA with or just buy a small condo 100 miles away from civilization and do an FHA loan that way (out in the boonies where I can only afford to buy a condo,stick built home inventory in my area would require a 6 figure salary sadly).Lots to think about! Thank you again for all your help and advice! I 'll be looking forward to seeing your kitchen update :)