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jkm192

need help in replacing hvac system

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

14 SEER/80% AFUE Trane for $6900 vs 16 SEER/96% AFUE Goodman for $7700.

I am looking to replace my current HVAC system and was looking for some advice in helping to make my choice. My house is 2550 square feet, and the current unit is a 137000 BTU furnace (which I have been told by everyone is over-sized) with 4 ton a/c unit. The unit is made by Lennox and has only had minimal issues the current of which is a leaky drain pan. The split system is the original unit that came with the house in 1989. The furnace shares a vent with the hot water heater. I live in southern NJ and my utility bills can range from $150 all the way up to $300. My current unit is in working condition, so I have time to make this decision. My complaints with my current system is that it is very loud since unit is the 1st floor of my house and the second floor of my house doesn't cool very well.

The one contractor is offering a lesser name brand but with far greater effiency at only marginal greater cost. This one is for a Goodman unit 96% AFUE furance (CAPF4860D6) + 16 SEER (GSX160481) a/c unit. The price for this one is 8710. There are rebates from the state for 550 and tax rebates of 450 which would bring the total to 7710. This contractor has great reviews on Angie's List, HomeAdvisor and Google. In speaking with the contractor, he said that he could probably be out in around a week.

The other is a for a Trane system TTDD1C120A9541A, 80% AFUE, 120000 BTU furnace with a 4 ton 14 SEER condenser at a price of 6900. This contractor also has great reviews. The wait time for his crew would be 3-4 weeks. Interesting I did not see any contractor that gave me a quote do a manual J or look at my vents to see their current status.

I had a couple of concerns about the high efficiency furnace in term of reliability. The Goodman higher efficiency furnace would be a condensing furnace so there would be additional duct work that would need to be done. It seems that these units require more maintenance and there are more parts to break and, therefore, probably are less reliable long term. Interesting, of all the contractors who gave me quotes, there was only one that offered me a high efficiency furnace.

I am stuck as to which way to go. On the one hand you have a lower price for a better brand name furnace, and I wouldn't have to deal with the complexity of a condensing unit. On the other hand, I would have a higher efficiency unit that would only be $800 dollars more and get an additional 2 SEER and 16% more AFUE but is a lesser name brand. Both would be done by very reputable contractors based on online reviews that literally had no negative feedback. I was surprised, however, that no one had done a load calculation to come up with the aforementioned units. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Comments (12)

  • 10 years ago

    Are you in or near Mercer county? If so I have a Carrier dealer who I highly recommend. It would be worth getting a quote from him. He will do a free load calculation as part of the quote.

    Before you get involved in brands and costs, you need to select the right system and size. You should be buying a 90%+ efficiency furnace and taking advantage of the lower operating costs and any rebates. The higher efficiency furnaces have more parts, but they have been around for many years and have become the most common configuration for the northern states.

    If you have 2550 sq. feet of living space between the first and second floors, then a 120K BTU furnace is over sized. I would be suspicious of a contractor who proposed this. You furnace size should be 80K or 90K BTU depending which efficiency you choose.

    The Goodman model number you posted is a coil and not a furnace. You need the furnace model number and size.

    You duct work is likely not capable of carrying the air flow of your old furnace. This is part of the reason why it is so noisy. The new furnace should be more quiet.

    There is a lot of heated discussion on Trane versus Goodman on this forum. My advice is to search in the forum about problems associated with these brands and draw your own conclusions.

    Jason Magargle thanked mike_home
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    That is a poor Trane choice, both size, mdl, and efficiency. I would think an 80 KBTU XV95 2 stage var speed 95+% efficiency paired with a 4 ton XR16 AC condenser. 824 thermostat, whole house pleated filter cabinet. Make no mistake, Trane and Goodman not comparable. I agree that you should follow up with Mike about a Carrier quote.

    IMO

    Jason Magargle thanked tigerdunes
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    If your unit is oversized and your upstairs is not cooled well, then you need ductwork done as well. I wouldn't go through the hassle of changing out the unit if the ductwork isn't going to be managed/upgraded. May not even need the unit changed.

    I wish tinbashers would implement ductwork that allows customization with accessible dampers. In my mind, and ideal system would have AC supply be double what it is downstairs during summer (cold air goes down, basements are always colder), and heat supply would be double in the basement what it is upstairs in the winter (heat rises, upper floors are always warmer). This is assuming the ductwork is sized correctly to damper accordingly and still get the airflow the air handler needs.

    Jason Magargle thanked Vith
  • 10 years ago

    Also, you'll need a manual J to get the rebate from the NJ programs.

    Jason Magargle thanked freeoscar
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    GOOD FOR YOU! You have put your finger on the primary issue for most HVAC woes in residential buildings; the duct system! You are far more advanced than most homeowners and also most contractors. You also mentioned a Manual J calculation. GOOD FOR YOU AGAIN! A heat load calculation will insure that you will achieve the correct heating and cooling capacity for your home. With your duct issues corrected and a CORRECT Manual J calculation, you will be in a position to have any system installed to provide the right capacity and efficiency.

    Manufacturers don't matter. The only tangible difference between manufacturers is the warranties. The rest is HOW THE SYSTEM IS INSTALLED. Don't put the focus on who's price is cheapest. If you get multiple proposals, the prices should all be within a few hundred dollars. If so, chose based on who you trust.

    You're off to a great start and are asking all the right questions. I have a couple of articles on my blog that might be helpful, DIRTY SECRETS YOUR CONTRACTOR DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW and HOW YOUR DUCT SYSTEM AFFECTS YOUR SYSTEM EFFICIENCY. Hope this helps! Congrats again on a great start!

    Jason Magargle thanked Air and Energy Soutions
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    As far as prices being within a few hundred dollars, if they are not, I would really want to know why.

    Some manufacturers offer a better warranty. I really don't like to get into naming names, but Amana does offer a furnace with a lifetime heat exchanger warranty. This is because it is stainless steel. Goodman also offers a 99 year extended compressor warranty for around $100 extra. Just a thought.

    As far as selecting contractors, I'm an advocate of choosing someone you really trust AND know someone that has used them in the past. The last part is because I have such lousy instincts and suspect others may as well. If you pick a contractor that has been used by a friend or family member and they are pleased, you probably will as well, but as you know, there really aren't any sure guarantees. If a con is going to take your money and run, he's probably done it before and knows the game well. Sad but true part of our business. It's people like this that make it hard on homeowners and honest contractors alike. If you figure a way around it, please share. Better yet, go on TV and sell the system. You'll make a million!

    Jason Magargle thanked Air and Energy Soutions
  • 10 years ago

    Why is a Lexus priced double to a comparable Ford or Chevy? Some HVAC brands are simply better than others and will be priced accordingly.

    TD

    Jason Magargle thanked tigerdunes
  • 10 years ago

    You as a professional know how to compare system A to system B and determine if the extra cost is justified or not. Most homeowners don't have the knowledge to do this.

    I think lifetime heat exchanger warranties are becoming more common. In my opinion most heat exchangers fail due to over sized furnaces and undersized duct work. The warranty does not cover labor charges which makes the warranty almost useless. In most cases it makes more sense to put the money towards a new furnace.

    I think a 99 year compressor warranty is a marketing gimmick. It may be useful if the compressor fails in the eleventh year and then again you have to pay for labor. But if fails in 15-20 years, how many people are going to sink money into an old Goodman condenser?

    My neighbor and I were shopping for new HVACs systems at the same time several years ago. A third neighbor highly recommended the Carrier dealer she used. The neighbor who was shopping rejected him because is price was very high. I rejected him not just on price, but the system he was recommending made no sense, and his load calculation consisted of walking around the house and checking off boxes on a piece of paper. The quote itself consisted of scribbling numbers on a blank sheet of paper and then subtracting discounts and rebates. The whole thing was very unprofessional, yet if I ask the neighbor who used them she would recommend them again.

    Shopping for HVAC systems is hard. You don't know the ability and honesty of the contractor until the system is installed.


    Jason Magargle thanked mike_home
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I understand your frustration and you're right. It's sad that the world is so corrupt you can't just trust what you're told by someone that's supposed to be a professional. Wish I had a good answer. It would be great if you could just trust a fellow church member, but sometimes those are the worst. It looks like it has gotten to the point that your system may be the best. Do your homework and your own research. At least that way you have enough working knowledge to ask intelligent questions. I recently had to learn how to install and program my home security system for the same reason. I'm afraid security systems are a bigger racket than HVAC but I guess that's another story.

    Jason Magargle thanked Air and Energy Soutions
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Why is a Lexus priced double to a comparable Ford or Chevy?

    Ha, ha, ha... that is like comparing a Toyota to a Lincoln or Cadillac.

  • 10 years ago

    for Air and Energy

    "If you get multiple proposals, the prices should all be within a few hundred dollars. If so, chose based on who you trust."

    not buying into that statement about pricing...

    IMO