No, what your are looking for is everyone to agree with you that this is 100% the tile shops responsibility and to get the balance of your tile for free, It doesn't work that way............

Sue them for sure. Bet you could do that for free.

Lee- Take my advice. This is an unfortunate situation, but it will be resolved. The stress is not helping you or your family. Move on, enjoy your new baby. There are more important things in life than bathrooms, tile and even dollars. Be well.

Is the issue that there was no designer? You self designed the project and are also doing project management yourself? That would explain the missing pieces and lack of accountability or confrontation with the designer on the job.

l think a small discount and increased lead time is a reasonable request. Try to work with them and not be angry. Do you have other working bathrooms in your home? If so dont worry about having a newborn. I assume this is your first child? Neither the child nor you will remember this in 3 years. Its unfortunate and you certainly have a right to be upset. Just try to move forward. Home renos are fraught with oversights and mistakes. Its a service industry and not an exact science. Bad pros and businesses should be called out online or via word of mouth. Just move forward thru this road block keeping the end result and big picture in mind.

lee..someone is responsible for this mess and it is not you. You went to a business with whom you had done business previously. You trusted their expertise. They have admitted their “expert” did not give you “expert” results.

As for getting the remainder of your tile for free, as someone above commented, that is not the issue. The issue is you were quoted a price for product to complete the job. You agreed to that quote, assuming, as would anyone, everything was done properly. Whoops, big mistake! But your mistake? Nope!

I agree with your choice to drop off. Wish you the best for a happy, healthy baby.

JudyG so how would it be most justly remedied? (Im intrigued I guess. This issue is kind of like an interior design/lawschool exam question)

Green designs, I'm surprised as a self-promoting "pro" you'd call someone a liar - based on what? You've never had a business or service fail to meet expectations? You must lead a charmed life. I had an expensive reclaimed wood countertop for my kitchen reno arrive in the wrong color stain and the company had to pick it up and redo it. They didn't charge me for their mistake.

I am waiting on calling out the firm in question, and I don't feel like taking a picture of my professional designs to prove anything to you. I'm giving them a bit more time, but I will be reviewing them on social media.

My husband and I are both attorneys, I guess that is a good thing when faced with problems like this. We've had renovation issues but never a supplier problem quite like this one. I think more than legally in the age of social media businesses need to safeguard their reputations. This is not a lot of money to be risking that for in my opinion.

Bingo GD nails it I think. There is no designer involved either designing or acting as project manager. There may not even be a GC. Acting as your own designer often does lead to mistakes. You have to own them. Calculating square footage incorrectly by half is a pretty big one though.

Really charming to insinuate extorting a company over your basic mistake. Maybe you need to drop this entirely until the hormones are through having their way with you.

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'll order more of the other tile, but the marble is not happening. I'd feel like an idiot every time I looked at the tile. I can find alternatives.

You either need to choose less expensive tile, or bite the bullet and order more tile. Hope it works out.

good times this thread

So you sue them for negligence and your damages are what exactly? The weeks delay? Job not started on time? You arent out anything financially assuming they will give you credit if you return the tile to order from a new lot. So what would you be suing for in terms of quanitfying your damages exactly?

A countertop coming in the wrong stain is completely different scenario really than asking a tile shop to pay for extra tile themselves bc they miscalculated the square footage. A 15% discount, yes. A promise to expedite, yes. Eat the complete cost, no.

Think of it thid way. A client comes into your office asking for a divorce. Based on the info they gave you, you charge them a $5k retainer. You then realize that in calculating the error, you quoted them a non custody divorce instead of a $7500 custody divorce. Do you still have to do their entire custody case for $5k and eat the extra work? Or would you apologixe for the mistake but tell them they are still gonna have to pay the full$7500.

A retainer is not necessarily a flat fee arrangement, I'm assuming you mean flat fee? If so, you do the work and can't up charge later. There is no way you can agree to do work for $3,000 and later say oops it is $5,000 without disclosing that to a client up front that there may be more costs.

I'm not that find of attorney anyways.

Lawsuits are just one path, there are other ways.

Right but Im saying a lawsuit is not a good path bc you dont have monetary, quantifiable damages. An average juror is not going to be sympathetic to a lawyerds kitchen remodel that costs more than they earn a year being delayed 4 weeks. Yes you can post on yelp or google. But if most their reviews are good, it wont matter. You can contact the media. People will see it and forget it by the next day. Im just saying there is unfortunately not much to be done Im afraid.

Very little in the home improvememt industry is quoted as a final set in stone non adjustable cost. There are always changes and mixups and inforseen circumstances. And I dont think any lawyer would ever work for free for a customer with the means to pay, even if they miscalculated the fee they initially presented.

Sounds like if I need a Lawyer I should hire shiningautumn8.

Sure, as soon as she goes to or finishes law school.

The idea of a jury trial is pretty funny, you do realize that there is small claims court?

Look right now the tile place isn't even offering to take back and refund me for the marble and coordinating shower floor. Instead, they want me to pay more than double for their mistake. And they want to give me more marble from another batch, not even redo the whole order so there are no potential matching problems. I'm not risking a reorder with this company, and I'm not paying more when I can buy marble from another reputable source.

I think I'm being more than reasonable by considering paying extra for the two other types of tile they miscalculated, which they still haven't given me lead times on.

Lots of defensive industry people on here, I guess this is a warning to homeowners that accountability and customer service are rare.

I am not a pro nor all that experienced, but in my experience buying tile for reno. either the contractor did it - and in doing so took responsibility for buying the correct amount - or on occasion we did it ourselves, and in that case we went over our measurements and calculations with a fine tooth comb, got the contractor's input to the extent possible (in this particular case we were rushing an order through to take advantage of a sale), and discussed the measurements and amounts in detail with the tile store staff. With all that information, we made an informed decision about how much to purchase. I would never have relied on the tile store alone, given that they'd never seen our space nor knew our contractor's preferences for extra amounts etc.

So it looks to me like there is blame to go around here. It would be nice if the tile store would work with you, but frankly, if you are taking the same attitude with them as you are here in assigning all the blame to them and then relying on the "I'm an attorney" line to pressure them, I am not surprised they are balking.

You're an educated person, you could have gone over the math and made sure it made sense to you, given you are the one with the money and project at risk. It's just good business common sense.

I hope you find a reasonable solution, but attacking those trying to help you see the other side is not useful.

It's hard to believe how harsh people are ! Something similar happened to me a few years ago. The tile store designer ordered 8 accent tiles instead of 8 square feet of accent tile. We had paid in full already .The store ordered the additional tile at no additional charge to us in order to honor their original quote .

Thanks Bichonbabe, appreciate the feedback.

What a warning tale to those who want to design something as complex as a bathroom themselves, and under a deadline to boot!

1. Timetables always need to have flex time built in.
2. Basic math needs to be checked by the project manager.
3. There actually needs to be a project manager.
4. Square footage isn't being taught (or learned) in or out of school anymore.
5. It's everyone else's fault but the person creating the specs, so no designer will ever have their feet held to the fire for specifying incorrectly anymore! Woohoo!

#3 is the really important one here. You can have an exquisite "design world" design, but unless you have a knowledgeable person in charge of the real world project, it can go south quickly. Self designing and GCing a project isn't for the faint of heart, or the high risk pregnant with a timetable.

Hire someone to step in and put out the fires here and take the stress off of you. Use the other bath until this one is done. Pay them to sweat the details, and don't look back.

Yes, leemiller, I have found most recently that customer service, and accountability have gone to the wayside. The horror stories on Houzz are eye opening.

If I walked into an upscale tile store with a design center staffed by a design pro, gave them my blueprints, had the tile drawn on the diagonal, and asked for an order, I would hold them accountable for the order, period. If I paid by credit card, I would put in a dispute to stop the process until it was settled with the store.

And, since you designed this yourself, and now have to backtrack, be very sure that you actually want to deal with real marble in your bathroom. It etches, it stains, and it is high maintenance compared to porcelain. That is not something that a busy new mom usually wants to keep up with. If you hire your cleaning done, you need to remove all traditional bathroom cleaners from your home. They are acid based and will dissolve the top layer of stone. That is what etching is, and it cannot be prevented by any sealer.

Also, if the water proofing in the shower is not expertly detailed, it will have wet spots in it constantly, as it is porous. Water proofing begins with the correct framing behind the shower, not just the ''tile guy'' hired to work on this side of the warped studs. You need to verify the waterproofing technique being used, as if the project manager doesn't understand that, and isn't there for the critical stages, you will be back here with another post detailing the leaking moldy mess that has been created.

Small clams courts have jury trials. Anyone on the defense side of a suit can and should request one. Im surprised as an attorney you dont know that.
At anyrate, I dont think you have much recourse here but buying more tile. Its unfortunate but again I think if you look at the big picture and life this isnt a nightmare. You arent getting screwed. You are just having to pay for what you want. I think the problem is some people think the industry should be like Target where if an item had the wrong price sticker on it, the store still honors that price. It just doenst work that way.

I could see if you werent gettjng the tile you wanted or it was damaged or poor quality. But the only issue here is an error in the quote. You havent been made unwhole in any way.

Sophie, stop lying. I did NOT design this myself. You are making things up. If you want to cause drama, find another thread.

I used 1) a designer for the dimensions and layout who picked many of the items and 2) an in-store designer at the tile shop when picking out tile & ordering.

Again, any more of your aggressive and completely unfounded attacks and I will report you to Houzz. I don't need to be harassed and called a liar by someone on the Internet who has no evidence for doing so.

Nice to see some Gardenweb names I recognize, makes me feel nostalgic.

ShiningA, thanks, I really don't need legal advice. Trust me, I have that more than covered. And I especially don't need non-state specific conjecture.

Best to step away when the OP decides to attack any posts that don't specifically conform to her agenda ... good luck with your project leemiller.

Sounds like the "in house designer" is really just an order taker who has an eye for putting tiles together and is not a professional interior designer. I suspect your paperwork states no refunds on custom tiles and that they are not responsible for ordering issues. Unfortunately if you are acting as your own GC I think this is going to fall on you.I would definitely be concerned with variance and dye lots.

To get back on track I'd suggest you hire a one or two hour consultation with a certified bath designer who will come to your house to actually see your space and the marble you already have. They might be able to make suggestions or have ideas to turn this situation around.

Agree with Sophie's last comment about the properties of marble. Head over to the bath forum and you might change your mind on this. Renovations/remodeling are inherently stressful. Best of luck with this.

Im not sure why you are so insulting to anyone who is trying politely to offer you honest perspective. Your frustration and disappointment is valid. However I dont feel your expectation for fixing this is. It sounds like you had a designer design the bathroom but then her duties ended and you are serving as project manager yourself ie ordering the materials yourself. Maybe you could bring your designer back in to confirm product shipment, material orders, quality and correctness of shipments, and handle whatever further unforseen incidents arise. Its well worth the money for something so important.

I think industry frustration arises when a homeowner acts as project manager then when an issue or glitch arises wants to claim ignorance and pass all responsibility onto vendors. At any rate I am not an industry professional, but I am in the legal industry and stand by my assertion that you wont have any hard damages to present to a jury or bench judge.

Wow! Streams of vitriol punctuated by a few helpful comments. If I were you. Lee, I'd move on. Everything that could possibly have been said about your situation has already been posted. Good luck.

FYI, and coincidentally, one of the to the trade resources that I deal with regularly emailed a friendly reminder of their return policy this morning.

Customer Return Policy

XXXXX is happy to assist you in all of your needs. However, it is important to
know, understand, and follow our Return Policy. Please see the guidelines listed
below:

1. Productsmustbeinunopened,damage-free,fullcartonquantities,with
   the exceptionofstandardnsturalstonestockedatourregionalwarehouses.

2. Three(3)cartonminimum,withtheexceptionofstockednsturalstone..

3. A25%RestockingFeewillbeappliedtoallreturneditems.

4. Allitemsmustbewithin30 daysoftheoriginalshipmentdate.

5. Weareunabletoreturnanytypeofsettingmaterial.

   6. Customordersare nonreturnableforanyreason.

   7. XXXXXX assumesnoresponsibility formaterial quantitiesorchoice ofappropriatesetting materialsfor thejob. Verify allquantities beforeordering.

Any order(s) that falls outside of these guidelines will not be eligible for return.
This policy has always been in place, however to ensure that there is a clear
communication, we wanted to send out a friendly reminder.

Sirty for the messed up formatting. Trying to copy from a PDF.

Thanks live oak, helpful to see language that was not on my order. Appreciate it.

Update: After getting nowhere with staff for two weeks, we contacted the owner directly and cc'd the salespeople involved. The owner responded promptly and I negotiated a lower price for the marble floor with him, along with the requirement that it all be from the same lot. So we paid more but less than 1/2 retail for the additional marble. Just FYI for others. I decided to throw more money at the problem vs. file a chargeback (but did check to see the timeframe for that....)

Regarding delivery, without any advance warning, they called us randomly on a Friday and gave us a delivery window for that day. We went to check and the amount of tile was wrong again?! Luckily, they did have the rest of the order and delivered it later that day.

Renovation is back on track, hopefully to start in a week or two and should be complete well before company comes at Thanksgiving. I'll review the company at some point because it was a big headache at a premium price.

Maybe this will help someone else down the line....

Lee I just wanted to say I feel your pain. It seems there are many in the industry who just put the blame onto a home owner. It's crazy. Some folks on here seem to think they know all from a simple post where only small amounts of info are actually shared. Looking in from the outside it's entertaining watching certain pros go to town with their assumptions and the stories they weave. Quite over the top and wouldn't you know it the ending is always the same...home owner at fault!

I'm also in the same situation. I emailed a copy of my plans to the tile shop for them to calculate exactly how much I required and to include 15% wastage. I trusted that this particular business was professional and honest in their work ethic. They calculated the "correct area footage", I told them my budget, we picked out the tiles and then we agreed on a price. I left a satisfied customer. Only when my tiles were being laid in the hall, we discovered that we were very short...not just - or 2 boxes but a 3rd of my order. I rang the tile shop and they had more boxes delivered with the flash of a pan....Coincidently, the same happened with the kitchen tiles....we were very short again and had to order more. Anyways, to get to the point, i was mislead with the incorrect footage required. The tile shop knew once the tiles were being laid we couldn't half finish the job but had to order the rest of the tiles. Should the calculations have been done correctly I would have not chosen these tiles as they were over my budget. I definitely have been mislead and I trusted this business to provide an honest service. I ended up paying an extra $750. Only now after this has happened that I realised this is a common scam with tile shops, they make the price look good on the day of purchase and laugh once you leave the shop knowing you'll be back to buy more.....

I am having a real hard time grasping how adults cannot perform basic multiplication. Esp college educated.

Tax returns are basic math....why do people hire accounts to do this for them??? Unfortunately, we weren't all blessed with 3rd level education or may have a lot going on at a particular time in our lives or maybe we are simply a little more dumb than others but that still doesn't mean the tile shop has the right to rip us off...! As part of this company's marketing and advertising strategy they offer a service "area and quantity calculation".....so the customer is entitled to receive an accurant calculation as this factors into cost and purchase agreement!

People don't hire accountants to do math; they hire them to know tax laws. And I agree they should give you an accurate quantity. However when a mistake is made , you don't get thousand of dollars of extra tile for free LOL!. Anyone should be able to roughly estimate their sq footage and say hey this seems awfully low they are ordering 400 sq foot less than my rough estimate, so since this tile is $25 a sq foot let me confirm! Its always good to checks and confirm yourself with anything dealing with home improvement. That is in fact what a project manager/designer would do and you are acting in that role yourself if you aren't hiring one.

If the tile store isn't doing the install, it is up to the installer to provide the quantities that they will need.
Normally we add an additional 10% to waste when we know that a tile is being laid diagonal, 5% for a standard straight lay or broken joint. Now if by some slim chance the installer needs more, the company whom the tile arrived from should be able to pull previous orders and look up the lot that the original order came from. This way they can pull from the same location. Meaning: Let say this product is stocked in Houston TX and Los Angeles CA. If you order came from Houston originally, then they would need to pull more from the Houston warehouse. The product in Los Angeles could be a night and day difference even though it is the same product.
Natural stone has natural variation. You will get movement no matter what product you're using.

Also, it is best to bid from plans but to get an accurate measurement it would be best to measure the house in person. Blueprints are great but the home will vary some causing differences in quantities.

Someone did measure on site to prepare a site specific plan, the shop's in house person had that information. Actually, two of the tiles were custom, one a custom water jet marble, so it was special order in part to have less variation. Same with my marble backsplash that I ordered from this company a year ago, all from the same lot to avoid problems. I paid a premium for this.

leemiller, I would love to see this water jet mosaic after it's in. Would you mind posting pics after your nightmare is finished?!! I'm in the middle of our own 9 month renovation, so I feel your paint.

And I think the guy above was referring to lisadoody measuring snafu. Even though she allowed the store to calculate the square footage, should she have trusted them? One would think, "yes"! But it's not always the case. So I think he was just saying, "Hey, I have 400 sq ft that needs tile. If this tile cost $25 a sq ft, then I'm going to spend 10K, plus extra for overage". I think he is just saying, know basic math so that you can double check the amount you are ordering, and the price you have to pay, plus, double check your measurements so they don't under/over-order.

It's too bad lisadoody got taken. I would have gone off on the company and blamed them, especially since it happened twice. That's why you need to check for yourself.

Beth, I hate to give any credit to this tile company but for you I might post it! I really like what you've posted on other threads.

haha,,well don't post the company name! and thank you!