No way Mountain Ash will grow there for you more than a couple of years. Even then it will look awful. Look around, do you see any? If you were at 5,000' in the mountains, I'd say go for it. I grew up in NE Ohio (zone 5, 55" of snow per year, rarely days above 90 F in summer) and even there they are short lived and become stressed.

Mountain Ash are beautiful. They grow near my parent's summer place in NH, but I hear they are disease-prone in warmer climates. You never even see them in my zone 6 area. Not a good tree for any spot where live oak is a viable option. Actually a possible choice for the "short lived trees" you asked for in another thread.

Sycamore is the fastest growing, tallest, and most vulnerable to wind of your options. Very attractive bark

Live Oak and American Hornbeam are super wind resistant. Not that familiar with the trees but I've been considering planting American Hornbeam and am kind of jealous I can't plant live oak.

Unless you have moved, I thought you were in zone 7a (Piedmont of NC)? Do you get much snow in winter? If so, how much?

The snow depends, I have never seen over 1ft. The zones moved slightly, according to the USDA interactive map and I am borderline 7b/8a. This would explain why plants not hardy to 7a have survived our winters with minimal damage.

None of the trees you are considering should be bothered in the least by your winters. Quite the opposite...if you are borderline zone 8, that bodes ill for Mountain Ash. Mountain Ash are sort of a more unusual substitute for crab apples and cherries in northern climates.

Refresh our our memory about what the site is like, and what you want out of a tree.

I want a medium/large shade tree to replace silver maples. It is clay soil, part shade until the silver maple is removed. I decided against the "short lived" tree because I just need shade. Sad to know I can't grow mountain ash :(.

I need:

fall color/flowers/interesting bark (one, or all)

no fruit (berries are ok but nothing like apples or peaches)

How about another native to replace the Silver Maple? Wouldn't that be sweet? A nice, large, fast growing tree is Magnolia acuminata. So many wonderful native trees to chose from. :)

hmmmmm...

Not a bad idea. I have a seedling that popped up beside the creek. How fast do they grow?

Out of the things you mentioned, I'd go with live oak. However, have you considered another maple? Red maple is the most abundant tree in the eastern US grows fast, and is stronger and longer lived than silver maple.

I like red maple, however the silver maples have maple wilt (as confirmed by an ISA certified arborist 2 years ago). I am hoping these other trees will be somewhat resistant.

I wouldn't be the one to provide growth rates for trees in the mid-Atlantic, but I know they grow at a pretty good clip once they get established. Mine grew about 3' this year.

Your zone would also be perfect for liquidambar stryraciflua which looks like maple, but isn't a member of the maple family, thus, not suceptable to maple wilt. It grows fast and the seeds can get a bit messy, but no more so than sycamore.

I hate liquidambar stryacflua. I have to of the little $***$ and don't want any more. I may go with the magnolia. Any more suggestions would be helpful (as long as they don't involve getting gumballs stuck in my foot).

If you don't like sweet gum, how about black gum (Nyssa sylvatica )? Shade tolerant, so it can survive in the shade of the silver maples. Great Fall color. Only problem is it grows slowly...but you are young.

The American Hornbeam (Carpinus caroliniana) checks off more of your boxes then anything else. Tolerates shade, tolerates clay soil, good fall color, interesting bark. A bit smaller then the silver maple you would be replacing.

And you probably can grow Mountain Ash if you really want to. You would have to plant it where it had shade to the South and coddle it...not a shade tree that is a backbone to your landscape.

I like nyssa sylvatica, but too hard to transplant (tried 3 times unsuccessfully for a different spot). I really might pair the magnolia with the hornbeam. It will be replacing 2 trees, but I will only be planting one if they get large.

If I lived in your zone I'd have at least one Scarlet oak.

Southern magnolia is beautiful. Pros: It's evergreen, relatively pest and disease free, and it will live 4 of your lifetimes. Cons: They are very messy. You will have the same issue that you do with sweetgums. The major difference is that dead magnolia seed pods are much bigger, but just as pokey. They also grow super SLOWLY.

A magnolia and a hornbeam together will be much smaller then a silver maple for your lifetime...if you are planting smaller trees, I'd almost go with three.

Do you need or want an evergreen? Is this a part of your yard you will use in the winter? Is it to the north or south of the house? Any screening of bad views needed?

Southern Magnolia growth is variable, my Brackens Brown Beauty has grown slowly, but I also have plenty of seed grown trees that have grown 3x faster. As far as them being messy, I don't clean up after mine, all of the litter gets hidden by the lower branches if you leave them intact (like they should be).

My 12th-yr Victoria southern mag is healthy & dense, but slow-growing, which is a good trait where it's planted:

Logan, cucumber tree grows as fast as a typical canopy forest tree here
-- medium speed. Very nice tree IMO and seemingly never planted, but not
uncommon in the nearby woods here. Likes moist, mesic conditions.

Beng, does cucumber tree lose its leaves fairly early in your area? I have one in a container that has done wonderfully all summer (in partial shade), but it suddenly dropped its leaves about two weeks ago. I wasn't sure if that's normal for them or not since they are not common here.

Cucumber magnolia is deciduous. I do not need an evergreen, but it would be nice. So I have decided on the hornbeam and the magnolia, what would be a good 3rd tree?

alabama, they are similar to tuliptree in that they're bothered somewhat by dryness/too warm soil (they're absent on south-facing slopes) & may lose leaves a bit early. Yours in a container might fit that bill. Typically they'll lose leaves about the same time as tuliptree -- turning a similar fair yellow.

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=a270

Anyone suggest yellow wood yet? Does it do well in your area?

I doubt I can obtain a yellow wood. Never seen one in person.

Tulip tree. I saw one in Longmont, CO. If I could grow one in Wyoming I would. Such a cool tree. Had lovely yellow fall color. I think it meets all you criteria.

Haven't even considered liriodendron tulipfera. May plant one of these and the hornbeam, use the magnolia in another place.

As far as a third tree...the hornbeam. It's shade tolerant and small, so you can fit another one in. Doubt you would have room for another Magnolia in the space occupied by two silver maple. My thought with the third tree idea was that one small deciduous tree and one large evergreen might look lopsided in the winter. Actually, this is a situation where the fancy redbud cultivars you recommend might work. They are shade tolerant and small? Many have red foliage. Between the three trees you would always have something going on.

Is your area warm enough for southern magnolia or live oak? I notice they are rated for zone 8 and you are in zone 7.

Tulip tree is an attractive shade tree with a decent chance of having good yellow Fall color and flowers that are big but surprisingly hard to see. Blooms late May in my area. Grows fast. BIG. Resistant to a number of current pests and diseases. A little vulnerable to wind.

Yellowood is actually not that hard to find. Very pretty tree, but prone to bad crotch angles and brittle wood. Resembles a honeylocust with wisteria climbing it. A decent choice for a small third tree (although that issue may be moot if you are going with tulip tree). Your nursery can probably order it. You can search your regional forum for people with volunteers. If you want a small specimen you can certainly mail order it.

"I doubt I can obtain a yellow wood. Never seen one in person."

Logan, pursuit of the tree is half the fun! The only wild Yellowwood I've ever seen was along the Appalacian Trail near the French Broad River in far western NC. Edlincoln has offered some good advice -- pursue it!

I got two bare-root mail order.

Ok, what about 2 hornbeam and one carolina silverbell?

All small trees to replace two big silver maple. I like the idea of a triangle of trees including one big one and two smaller shade tolerant ones. One live oak, magnolia, or tulip tree as the big tree. An American hornbeam as one of the small trees. Then a carolina silverbell or redbud as the third. They would kind of take turns being the star of the show. Also they would grow (and die) on different schedules.

The magnolia would provide more seasons of interest and be less likely to kill the silverbelll...if you are sure it can take your winters and are OK with the mess. In the winter you would have the evergreen foliage of the magnolia and the bark of the hornbeam. Tulip tree would grow fast, is more reliably hardy, and is a fine tree. A redbud cultivar could provide red foliage in midsummer when the other trees aren't doing much...but they are over planted and Carolina silverbel is a more interesting tree.

From a a compositional standpoint the best combo would be magnolia, American hornbeam, and forest pansy redbud.

From a uniqueness and reliability standpoint the best combo would be tulip tree, American hornbeam, and Carolina silverbel.

How much room do you have, Logan? Most of us are running out of room. Be very careful when choosing large trees.

I have ten acres and after almost 40 years space is getting critical and I've had to re-purpose several areas. This involves cutting down large specimen trees. Not fun. And yet I still propagate more. There should be an AA for plantaholics like us.

Mike

What's the point in planting new trees then removing the old growth maples?

I will go out and take some pics after it stops raining. I think what I might just do is plant american sycamore for the large tree, then the hornbeam and cucumber magnolia. Bulldog, there are MANY reasons:

Silver Maple is ugly

Silver Maple re-seeds EVERYWHERE

They have maple wilt

The roots get in the way of the lawnmower

I still have another one beside the house, but I am leaving it for now.

Root on top of the soil is a clear sign of compact soil. Planting a tree without preparing a much large hole filling it up with top soil let it settle will be like planting a tree in a pot roots will go in circles leafing to Girdling roots choking itself out. Removing large trees the company doing the job will use a skid steer compacting the soil more. So it would be best to remove get your holes in place let the soil compact a little in the over size holes then plant to insure tree root health

I know how to plant the trees and how to care for them. I have planted over 20 trees on my property successfully, with only a few issues so far. I was just looking for suggestions.

If you know how to care for trees then why not fix the maples already in your yard?

Hey Edlincoln, in zone 6 we are warm enough for Southerm Magnolia, I have one that has been growing great for 4 years already, I just bought another one while in Va this past week and also a Sweetbay mag. Zone 5 hardy. The Evergreen ones, mine that has been here for 4 years did great in the worst winter here in a long while with just some semi defoliation. And of course logan a Southern Mag would be great for you, but, the Live oak is always great also. I can't speak for those who are in the south and have Maples( besides Silver) but the Maples I saw in Va looked rough. Maybe the people on here that have maples care for them better thn those I saw. Logan, the Compton oak I saw in Williamsburg, Va, plant one of those and in about 100 years (we'll all be dead) nobody will need to plant any other tree, that tree was so humungous, it was worth the visit. But anyway, Live oak is a good choice in my opinion. Sorry for repeating myself.

I hate the maples. That is why I won't "fix them". I am pretty sure you cannot fix maple wilt. I am going to look for some pics.

Lot of produces on the market to treat maple wilt. For the most part I'm not seeing maple wilt in the photo see canopy loss from shading an compact soil

Maple wilt was confirmed by an ISA certified arborist. There is severe die-back in both of the canopies. What looks like canopy loss is where a red oak with internal rot was removed. Either way, I hate these trees.

Maple wilt we'd be seeing yellowed and brown leaves new growth leaves would be yellowed or undersized. When it comes to ISA you can be certified with many types of tree related work from climbing,pruning,removel,pest,disease,risk management. Doesn't mean they been trained in all fields when it comes to trees

While you cannot tell from this distance, they show the symptoms you mention. In the end, it wouldn't matter if they had maple wilt or not. I HATE them. Thinking about keeping the one beside the house, provides too much shade to remove. These two MUST go.

Logan, you really don't need to justify your reasons for wanting to remove the silver maples.....just ignore him.

American sycamore would do great in the lower part of your yard they really like water. If they do have maple wilt it could infect any tree planted close to them even removed. Dealing with compact soil I'd have stumps dug up

I will be burning the stumps and removing the roots with an axe. The lower part you see there isn't mine, if it were I would have a metaseqoia, weeping willow, and monkey puzzle tree ;). I am now thinking 2 trees will be a little much, maybe the sycamore and the hornbeam. Save the magnolia for another spot. I am not sure if it is the cucumber mag or the sweetbay (deciduous). It is only 3 inches tall, a volunteer with no others in the area. Plant it and see what it turns out to be LOL.

You're on the right path..maple wilt is a fungus you said you had a oak removed more then likely where it came from but maple wilt can come 8n contact with a tree many ways even under ground water. If it did start with the oak big threat that the surrounding soil is infected

The oak didn't have maple wilt. It had internal rot.