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chickencoupe1

Can we talk trees and drought?

9 years ago

Like most of ya'll, we've lost an enormous amount of trees on the property from a decade of bugs and drought. This includes a very old pecan tree. So sad.

I want to keep what I have and this drought is going to persist. I'm considering digging at least one deep hugelkulture bed and swale at the treeline of each of the pecan trees. We allowed some unsightly slippery elm roots to grow into trees in the back yard. Boy, am I glad they are there.

The tree deaths have been so severe I have allowed black walnut trees to grow through and even destroy our chain-linked fence. Yeah, I'm very serious on keeping trees. lulz Slippery elm, pecan, mulberry (no worries there) and black walnut are all I have on this property. I know that black walnut are trash trees, but they're doing a good job right now and I'm glad I haven't killed them as I had planned. (I've decided to reshape the fence line around the trees.)

Other than the hugelkulture beds which should absorb and contain moisture for a fraction of the problem and watering occasionally at the root zone, is there anything else I should do?

Comments (15)

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't do anything involving a combination of digging and organic debris. If you want to enhance soil moisture conditions without installing and using irrigation - or even if you do that also - you can improve the rooting environment by merely dumping organic matter onto the existing soil, leaving it there - as occurs in nature. The natural time for leaves etc. to accumulate of course is autumn. Otherwise spring mulching, before there is much drying of the soil can help keep it moist longer into the growing season.

    In my area, where significant falling off of rain right in the middle of the growing season is normal old fallen logs are critical sources of summer moisture within the forest. I've been walking on one of these in a low altitude regional park during warm weather and broken through, had my feet and shoes instantly plunged into cold, clean looking water - as though I had slipped while trying to cross a mountain stream.

  • 9 years ago

    What you probably should do is leave the trees alone and take great pains to do no digging whatsoever near their drip lines. Just irrigate and mulch and hope that is enough. Remember to water infrequently and deeply as opposed to more frequently and shallowly. Honestly, if you are looking at trees that seem to be declining, those likely are beyond saving. What generally happens is that persistent drought weakens the trees and then various diseases set in and finish them off. If you've been losing trees since 2011, it largely is a result of the recurring drought years' effect on the trees.

    I also wouldn't go to any heroic effort to save trash trees. Most of the kinds of trees you're talking about having on your property are the very trees that died on our property in and following the drought years of 2011-1014. We lost more elms than anything and all I can say about that is good riddance. Oaks are spreading their canopies and taking over the "holes" in the woodland left by the death/collapse of the trashy elm tree, and their fellow weak trees like hackberry and mulberry. We don't miss those trash trees at all. Did some oaks die as well? Yes, of course, but it was a very small number of them compared to the huge numbers of trash trees that died. Fast-growing trees are, for the most part, fast-dying trees.

    Our native pecan trees here survived. I'm sorry you lost yours. They do make such beautiful shade trees and the pecans are just a bonus.

    Do any of Cushings oil pipelines run through your property? If so, they may be a separate issue.

  • 9 years ago

    Embothrium, thank you for chiming in. It's nice to have an outsider's voice with fresh good opinions. Seems you and Dawn agree, too. Coming back in from outside this afternoon and reading this post made me stop. I don't think I realized how emotional I am over the loss of so many trees. I didn't realize my understanding of root zones and permaculture brought me that much security and the threat of losing more trees would make me feel so insecure. We lost the beautiful pecan. I keep forgetting this all started with that massive ice storm in the prior decade which weakened them and was followed by persistent drought. Next came the extreme drought as I watched my back yard loam turn to white sand and those poor trees didn't stand a chance. Then, there is that giant slippery elm which Dawn suggested is disease and is really already dead. I just can't stand it all.

    Because of our hot windy days in summer, most logs dry out unless they are contained within a dense forest. Add to this reality that I live in a "city" that makes natural logs much harder to leave in place. That dead pecan tree is still standing, but it has woodpeckers on it and I just can't bring myself to obsess over toppling it. So far it has come down in manageable pieces and nothing serious on the roof of the house. Digging hugel beds in for the same effect seems more feasible and has worked for me with vegetable plants, but you're right. Disturbance is probably worse.

    Yet, I completely forgot about composting in place and adding mulch. I could compost right on the edge of the drip lines and use tarps to provide extra shade for the composting while I KNOW the roots will benefit because every time I compost I must fight with the tree roots its nutrients. I'm sure they would appreciate me composting for their sake, only.

  • 9 years ago

    I would be emotional about the loss of trees too!

    And...what is a trash tree? I sorta looked it up, but didn't get a clear idea other than a tree that is weak and messy.

    Also, I know nothing about trees. I have no idea what kind of trees sit just to the west of my garden. They are tall and have been through storms, so they're not terribly weak. Their leaves are smallish and they have little round things (see I don't even know what those round things are called--berries?). Some of the roots are at ground level, which I don't like because I want to make a circle around one of them to plant things and rebuild the fairy's garden there, but read somewhere not to cover roots with soil.

    We have a pecan tree that didn't make pecans last year. It made pecans the previous two year but they were full of white worms. Would like to call in an arborist to treat it. We've also held off on planting trees because we know so little about them. We did plant one, but it died. Well, other than the columnar trees that are still living.

    I hope you don't lose anymore trees! I know that I would be sad if I lost the two unknown (but probably trash) trees next to my garden. Sounds like you have a plan with the composting though!

  • 9 years ago

    Oh, Dawn, I love mimosa trees too! When I was little, we had one in the backyard. They are delightful. I know that some people don't like them probably for a good reason, but I think they are beautiful.

    If I can find a picture of my two trees, I would like to post them here and let y'all identify them. They are not pretty trees, but they give me great shade in the summer. Wondering now if we should plant something else in case these die out. An oak, maybe? There's actually a couple of giant mulberry trees (which I would not want near my house) on the property to the south of us. Usually, I pick the fruit and make muffins or eat them in yogurt

  • 9 years ago

    Good luck with the trees. We lost a large number of pecan trees in 2012, but none where the soil was good and the trees were thinned out.

    If you want to get rid of a large percentage of the white worms (pecan weevil) in the nuts without spraying, there is one option that could get about 2/3 of them. That solution is to buy enough Circle Traps to completely encircle the trunk of the tree as high as you can place them before you encounter side branches. Put them out by Aug 1 and leave them out till the shucks on the nuts open up.

    If the tree is out by itself without other trees around, this is pretty successful.

  • 9 years ago

    People in town here are so upset most did not make any pecans at all. They blame the paraquat. My son's tree made about 1/10 what it did last year.

  • 9 years ago

    Scott, Do you order your Circle Traps online? I never see them here. I just use Tree Tanglefoot.

    Dawn

  • 9 years ago

    Thanks hazel and Scott. I'll be selective about plant locations and diligent when I see new pecan saplings planted by squirrels, relocating when necessary.

    The mimosa is a legume and a nitrogen-fixer. I love this one. It needs to be well established or chopped and dropped for the nitrogen effect. Its limbs can be pruned in the spring to help give it strength and used as a nitrogen source.

    Trash trees are a great source of protection for the stronger tree saplings. I guess the slow-growing trees, like oak, are planted in the dappled shade of the trash trees and when the slow-growing sapling reaches sufficient height to need more sun, you start cutting back the trash tree. Eventually, the trash tree is cut completely down. Compatibility issues are to be considered before planting I assume.

  • 9 years ago

    There is a mimosa growing at our old house right at the corner of the house and patio and a sidewalk. Hardly even any dirt there and right up against the house. We now rent out that house and DH has been trying to kill that mimosa for 30 years.

  • 9 years ago

    Bon, Trash trees usually are the early colonizers in a given area, and they do pave the way for better trees to grow. However, I still don't see much reason to keep them around once there are good trees growing. I know from watching our woodland that the cycle is fairly predictable. Let's say an old mature elm dies, which is exceptionally common in our woodland. As it dies and its big limbs (and eventually its trunk) crash down to the ground, a big sunny spot appears in the woodland. Trash trees sprout and grow quickly, essentially colonizing that space. Then, better quality trees begin to grow too. For a while the trash trees seem to have the upper hand since they grow more quickly, but then they do what trash trees do---they begin to die more quickly, and then the higher quality trees take over. It is a cycle that repeats itself over and over. I generally leave trash trees in the woodland alone until they die of natural causes, but if they sprout in the yard, I remove them so they won't even be competing with our established oaks. Well, the exception is eastern red cedars. I cut down those volunteers every single chance I get. There's no good reason to keep one of them!

    Mimosas have a reputation for reseeding themselves prolifically. Well, mine doesn't. If it did, I'd dig up the volunteers and plant them elsewhere. So, the one trash tree that I want to reproduce itself almost never does, and the ones I hate (like cedars and hackberries) reseed all over the place. It just figures.

    Dawn

  • 9 years ago

    There are occasionally some circle traps for sale at pecan events around the state. Tanglefoot is a great idea but I've never used it so I don't know how often you have to re-apply it or how expensive it is. Traps cost about $15-20 each and it may take 3 of 4, but they last for many years. Most weevils either crawl or fly to the trunk of a tree after rains in Aug and Sept. If you have them one year, you will have even more two years later. Good luck.

  • 9 years ago

    Thanks, Scott. We've had weevils bad in 2015 and 2016 so I expect them in 2017. While it has been nice to have wildly-above-average rainfall here in 2015 and slightly above average rainfall in 2016, I expect we'll be paying for that plentiful rainfall this year. I like Tree Tanglefoot but it also does entangle things I wasn't targeting, so that's one downside to using it.

  • 9 years ago

    Scott,

    Atwoods has papershell pecan trees for sale. I was thinking about it. Would it be worth the trouble and expense for a better type?

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