I dont have experience with them, but i dont know how soon they will bloom. The little gem blooms very young. I have been seeing the 'Teddy Bear' at a couple of Lowe's in my town over the past 2 weeks.

Past experience has been that pretty much all of them are hardier than 'Little Gem', which is unusually tender.

I've had a 'Teddy Bear' for 8 years or so. Got it as a 15 gallon. It's planted on the NE side of some 35' pines. The coldest it's seen has been -3F. At that temp there was leaf discoloration on the sunny side of the tree, but that has also happened with lows in the single digits. No wood damage or bark split. At -3F several 'Little Gems' a few feet away growing in the same conditions had very minimal discoloration, TB was much more noticeable. For me so far, LG is leaf hardier than TB. But -3F isn't really a good measure of hardiness here, it's been lots colder and LG has sustained partial or full defoliation, but no die back. Time will tell with TB.

As far as esthetics, TB is far and away superior to TB IMHO. It appears that TB is going to be at least somewhat columnar, at least when young. The foliage is larger and more rounded, and the tree is much fuller that LG. Over all appearance is of a rich, thickly foliaged tree. I'm partial to indumented or 'brownbacks'. TB is as susceptible to snow/ice damage as LG, probably because of it's dense habit. Flowers are about the same size as LG, but more elegant, and is a fairly shy bloomer for me, at least so far. My TB is 10-12', branched to the ground. The newest zone map has me in 7, up from 6, I consider myself to be in Zone 6. It has not been my experience that the 'brownbacks' are any hardier than the 'greenbacks' in the general run of un-named trees here.

Sam - is that a Phlomis already flowering where you are?

Sam, I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me, too. I'm just minding my own business, and WHAM! DH doesn't buy it when I say 'not my fault' so I hope you have better luck than me. I have become an expert at squeezing plants and trees into my compact sedan. :-)

In my Magnolia forest (yes, they are addicting), I have two trees that I have not been able to identify. I thought they were Teddy Bears but a poster here suggested they could also be 'Alta'. They have very much "indented" (brown backs) and are very columnar. Anyway, they have been susceptible to SNOW load issues (cold is not an issue); even worse than with my LG's. Whatever those are, they are also very shy bloomers. I do like the coloration and because they are so columnar, I even manage to fit a deciduous Star Magnolia between them (so I tolerate them)..., hope they survive this BLIZZARD coming in. I would say that my biggest issue to consider is heavy wet snow loads, not so much extreme cold.

As far as hardiness of "Greenback", my only experience here is with the cultivar Green Giant. It grows FAST, faster than other cultivar I know, but was one most damaged by Winter sun scold and snow load damage. I ended up chopping it down after it also suffered from hurricane wind damage...., all others FINE. Slow and steady wins the race!

subtropix

I don't grow 'Alta' and I don't think I've ever seen one locally but I've heard about it. I watched a video produced by the Raulston Arboretum in Raleigh, and it discussed this cultivar. When young this tree is very columnar, the darling of the LA's, but after ten years it widens big time. Because of it's branching habit the lower limbs don't hug the ground they angle upward at a 45 or more degree angle, leaving bare ground beneath the canopy and making fallen leaves an issue. The snow/ice issue was discussed, it can devastate the tree, and this in a place that doesn't get much snow, although ice can be a problem. The tree in the video didn't impress me, it looked almost like an inverted pyramid.

Thanks for the responses everyone, I especially appreciate first hand experience because there is no substitute.

subtropix, here is an old thread about 'Alta', I posted a pic with flower. Since the flower is so small I marked 'Alta' off the list. I would say however there is a potential to use 'Alta' as hedging material and forget about the flowers.

tlbean, you are right Lowes & Home Depot carry 'Teddy Bear'. mid-Atlantic is forecasted to get up to 12" of snow starting in one hour :( with bitter cold Wed & Thursday nights. Am not sure the big boxes know how to handle BLEs in containers under these conditions for that reason I avoid them.

floral_uk you've got the eagle eye. Jerusalem Sage only works for me as a container item as in the pic. One hour south or east and it will overwinter in the ground but not here. If I plant them outside they will sulk all summer and make flower buds around Sept/Oct. Now tell the rest of us, can you grow M.grandiflora in UK, if not why not?

kentrees12, one thing you didn't mention about TB is the polished foliage which I find a plus. BTW, apparently it is also called 'Southern Charm'. Could be TB is newish to me because LG has been around longer?

Sam. I don't know when TB was introduced without looking it up, but LG has been around WAY longer. I moved here 32 years ago and LG was readily available. TB is sold here in big box stores, that's where I got mine. 'Southern Charm' is the trademark name I believe. I think one of the reasons the leaves look so glossy is that the margins are somewhat recurved, and they're held at right angles the the branches, allowing for great light reflection. I can see my tree out my front windows and when the light is right the tree glistens.

Interesting, I have NO PROBLEM with all the many cultivars that are low-branching, luxuriant, horizontal branching...., to the GROUND cultivars with HEAVY snow loads. But with whatever columnar cultivar I do have, its strong verticality means that snow get trapped between the main trunk and the branches and the weight is just too much. I will post an update on Magnolia damage after our incoming snowstorm/blizzard/nor'easter, whateve'...

Yes, Sam. M grandiflora grows here. In the 19th century they were considered tender and often grown against walls for shelter. There are still a lot of these around. I've not noticed any big old free standing specimens anywhere but cultivars, like Little Gem, Exmouth, Galissoniere, Goliath are available. It's not a hugely popular tree here though.

Here is one of my Teddy Bear magnolias today with snow/ice cover. I agree with above posts that it does not flower a lot, but the foliage is awesome year round!

I don't grow any magnolias because of the frequent wet snow and ice I get. They would just fall apart here. Down by the salt water in the Puget Sound basin that problem isn't so critical.

Phlomis? That I do have. ;-)

Phlomis are agonizing here, but I might try one again. Sam assume you are in the semi-immediate Baltimore suburbs based on your post. Within 20 minutes of 695. Where have seen mature ones "an hour south and east"? Kent Island? Salisbury? Are there public gardens out there? Or just someone you know?

Mike, when is your garden opening to the public and what is the admission cost going to be? ;-)

davidrt28, HERE is my previous post about Phlomis. The location is the Nat'l Herb Garden and there is another fine example @ Green Spring Gardens in Annandale, none as nice as Mike of Seattle.

"I don't grow any magnolias because of the frequent wet snow and ice I get. They would just fall apart here. Down by the salt water in the Puget Sound basin that problem isn't so critical."

I have lots of wet, heavy snows here in NJ but not much damage due to snow. Do you think that this may be a function of a relative lack of heat in the growing season, or the duration of heat??

PS., Disappointed by our recent snow event; was expecting a white out blizzard but instead got a snow and then HEAVY sleet storm. Snow did not collect on trees at all.

'Little Gem' is subject to premature defoliation by leaf fungi, serious breakage in snow and being blasted by cold periods out here. Cold as in say, 15 degrees F. Of course, with large numbers of this cultivar having been sold and planted throughout the metropolitan area - with its varying site conditions and weather patterns - not all examples encountered show obvious signs of such difficulties.

R. Gossler (Gossler Farms, Springfield, OR) was recorded as having mentioned the defoliation problem some years ago. D. Callaway, The World of Magnolias (Timber Press) wrote it was about the most tender of them all.

The biggest one I have seen - about 41 ft. high - was growing near Los Angeles. No being broken in half by snow down there. (Seattle had managed to produce one over 27 ft. high by 2004 or so - next to a house).

In Arkansas the Magnolia's don't break. They are also planted in every other yard. Most of them are mature large trees. You rarely see the Little Gem in residential areas down here. They are usually in landscapes of businesses. We do get some snow but not much. The last time we had snow in 2015, it weighed down the branches of my small little gem. As soon as the snow melted they went back into place. No breakage.

>You rarely see the Little Gem in residential areas down here. They are usually in landscapes of businesses<

Nowadays vegetatively propagated trees of any kind in typical garden center sizes (head high or taller) can cost hundreds apiece. This year I am even seeing some named magnolias in 5 gallon pots priced at over $100.

FWIW Merrifield's is a high end garden center in Falls Church VA, they sell TB in 15 gallons from $195-$225 depending on the plant. OTOH Home Depot sells a smaller plant for about half that. This youtube shows a grower with the trees grown P in P somewhere down in Dixie. There are numerous wholesale growers in NC, Tenn and southward growing TB. Interesting that there is so much interest in Australia in the dwarf magnolias.

I don't know about Australian interest in Little Gems, but what IS so attractive about them is their LONG bloom period. Here, in NJ, I get bloom from May through OCTOBER. Is there another cultivar with a similarly long bloom period?

I sure enjoy your pictures, Sam.

Hi Sam, my TB is doing fine. Probably as hardy or hardier than LG. I like it a lot. I think you will too.

The 5 gallon little Gem's were $79.99 at Lowe's while the same size of the Teddy Bear was $119.99

tlbean, thanks for that info, the pricing sounds about right. Earlier I mentioned why I avoid big boxes and here's another example why:

And what's worse is they never mark them down! At least not at our HD. Those should be OK and will leaf out eventually, but they should be marked at least 50% off, IMO.

Dave, talk to the manager. They have the authority.

I took this pic this morning, nursery is near Winston-Salem. These are TB Magnolias in 7 gallons. Nary a flower, the LGs in the next block were blooming and I commented on the fragrance. Time will tell concerning the Teddy Bears but for now they fetch a high price.

Is that you in the pic? how much were the 7gallon size going for?

Love to visit the southern nurseries.

Yep, the minute you leave the northeast megalopolis, i.e., drive south of DC, the prices drop. Also the selection goes way up at the more "serious" places, like Colesville or Big Bloomers. (or more obviously the storied mail order nurseries of Woodlanders, Camellia Forest, and, yes, Plant Delights...although I only buy from them as a last resort and many of their older classics are 1/2 price at Big Bloomers. I've had just enough negative experiences with them to make me wary.)

We used to love to visit nurseries in the Tidewater area of SE Virginia when I had in-laws down there. Sadly many of those nurseries are gone now. But you could not beat the prices. That's where I got my Magnolia virginiana 'Mattie Mae Smith' for $40.

Sam, those are really nice, but the price........... OUCH. That's something only a high-paid DC-area bureaucrat could pay.

I took this pic today of an established 'Teddy Bear' in Baltimore County MD. Not very pretty but soon the damaged leaves will be shed and new ones come out.

I saw some that size at a local garden center that was $600 bucks!

My teddy bears recovering as we speak, new leaves coming in after this prolonged dry/cold winter

This one is in southwest corner or property and recovering nicely(you can see the leaf litter/damage over the winter):

This one, though I thought in a more protected location, looks worse off. Nice new leaves are coming in,so there is still hope!

Recent pic of 'TB' magnolia in Salisbury MD. Am a little surprised how open it is. Also only found one spent cone on the entire tree which makes me think very shy to bloom.

Sam, my Teddy Bear bloomed into October this year. FWIW, I think the further north they are grown, the more open they become. Further south they just are more vigorous. My opinion.