j4c11, how is your project coming along?

Still at the bare dirt stage. Yesterday evening I saw first signs of germination. I guess the soil is still cool due to shade and it's taking a while. But let me tell you, I really started worrying about that December prodiamine app a few days ago. I feel better now :-)

I'll post some pictures once the seedlings grow a little. Looking forward to seeing the progress when I get home this evening.

I sprayed my poa annua with Tenacity on March 26th. I thought I wasted the effort since it rained immediately after and I am not confident with chemical spraying. However, the poa did all turn white, causing my yard to appear rather polka dotted. Do you know how long it takes to actually kill? I am wondering if I should spray it again on the 17th, as it will be three weeks. I have cleared up all my other issues (drainage, weeds, common bermuda, moss) and the fescue looks very healthy. I haven't started irrigating yet. Just found some cotton seed meal so I am continuing with the organic soil boosting plan. Have you tried any of dchall's suggestions, other than the "buffalo stomp"?

I think you need to have poa annua bleached for about 3 weeks. When it starts to die, it'll go from just white to looking like it's dying. Mature poa may not die unless you spray it liberally. Sometimes poa triv will bow out with weekly selective spraying too but it takes 2 months or more... not just weeks.

I'd hit it again to keep it under pressure until the heat comes. It will tap out at that time.

I follow all of dchall's advice, I just tweak it here and there :-).

Thank you both. I will hit it again this weekend. Hoping your spring seeding is successful.

Update at 7 days post germination. Grass is coming in nicely.

Nuked the other half this Sunday, going to seed asap. There's a streak of rain in the forecast so that may take place sooner rather than later.

@Scott

Traverse 2 came from Preferred Seed :https://www.preferredseed.com/detail/index.cfm?nPID=388

Turf Blue HGT came from Todd Valley Farms :

http://www.toddvalleyfarms.com/store/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=38

I renovated last year with all HGT in the front, here it is as of 2 weeks ago:

We'll see how it does through the summer, so far so good.

Progress report: seeded the other half of the back today. Just in time for a nice heavy rain. Rain in the forecast for the next 4 days which is great, no watering.

Thanks for the info j4c11. What seeding rates did you use for your mix? Everything I've read says HGT I'd much lighter than other kbg. How's the HGT color on the front vs what you've had prior experience with?

Sorry, I'm a recently converted lawn enthusiast and have a ton of questions since you're doing pretty much exactly what I'm planning!

Intrested to know how that blend is coming along

Sorry folks, been out and about for the past few days. About an hour ago I gave the portion that germinated 3 weeks ago the first haircut. There's a couple of small patches that are a little behind, but overall germination has been great. Applied some polymer coated urea, and will follow up with a shot of propiconazole, Tenacity and PGR next week.

I saw a few white crabgrass plants as I was mowing. Looks like the pre-emergent Tenacity did the job.

Germination is currently taking place in the other half. We're coming into May, so we'll see how that works out.

@Scott

I used 10lbs TTTF + 2.5 lbs HGT per thousand. I expect losses so I seeded a little heavy. I don't think HGT seed is lighter, but it is coated, 50% of the bag weight is coating. People scoff at it, but when fungus took out my entire fescue renovation last far, the bluegrass made it through because it was coated with fungicide.

The color of HGT is lighter than some of the other elite cultivars, and definitely lighter than the Speedway fescue I had last year. I knew that when I bought it, I sacrificed color for the fungal resistance and ability to repair quickly, as Barvette is an aggressive cultivar. Summer will tell whether that tradeoff was worthwhile. Foliar iron, PGR and plenty of nitrogen can help darken the color. Depending on how things go, I am thinking of overseeding some Midnight into it this fall to help darken it a little more.

I'd suggest holding off on purchasing seed until August-September, I'll post updates along the way and we can see how it performs. I can't make any comments on Traverse 2, it's just now coming up but if you can get ahold of Speedway, it's kick-ass in the transition zone. Last year's crop was badly contaminated with weed seed so I couldn't get any.

Looking good

J4c11 did you nuke the front yard last year as well before you replanted?

@Chris Vale

I did not, it was an overseed project, but the fescue was fairly thin after a brutal summer and my battle with Bermuda which caused a lot of collateral damage. I estimate 15 percent fescue currently in there.

Well it looks like a super thick lawn in the front so well done

Second cut yesterday on the first half. Been aggressive with Tenacity, so far it's holding the weeds back. There's some broadleaf weeds that don't seem affected by it, but they're small so I'm going to let them be a little while longer so I don't have to hit the young grass with Trimec.

Second half is coming along, but the grass is growing thin and long, like a plant without enough light. I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. May just take longer to establish, but time is the one thing I don't have with June around the corner.

Second cut on the second half of the reno. Development is slow due to shade, but it's coming along.

The above picture is of the same area as in the original post. No more Poa A!

Has Ms. Poa made an appearance yet? Four days of steady rain here. Hope fungus in not in your crystal ball.

So far so good, no fungus, hoping it dries up a little soon so I can mow. I plan on hitting it with fungicide as soon as possible. Poa A doesn't concern that much me at this point, if there's any once the summer heat hits it should tap out.

I found this interesting on the propiconazole label.

ESTABLISHMENT OF COOL-SEASON TURFGRASS
PROPICONAZOLE 14.3 SELECT provides control of many diseases of turf and its primary use is as a fungicide for use against the
diseases listed on this label. As an additional benefit, PROPICONAZOLE 14.3 SELECT will improve the establishment rate when it is
applied to cool-season grass seedlings or sod.

New Seedlings: Apply 1 fl. oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. at the 2- to 3-leaf stage of growth for faster root development and top growth.

Update - the grass is coming along nicely, the shade is helping with the heat. No issues yet, a few broadleaf weeds here and there which I'm ignoring for now. Applied urea @ 1lbs/K last week to push development. Picture as of Saturday, exact area from the original post. Freshly cut @ 2".

just curious, you using PGR with that amount of urea? otherwise i think that is a lot.

It's really not that bad, that's only 0.46 lbs N. But I do plan on starting PGR this weekend when I'm due for another fungicide app, mostly to encourage tillering and hopefully get that bluegrass sending rhizomes out.

Hi j4c11, how's your spring turf project? Did you see any (positive or negative) results from the urea treatment? I just bought a giant bag of sugar today at Costco. I am going to chuck some around the yard to see if the soil microbes eat the thatch (that shouldn't be there, because it is fescue). Idea from dchall. Probably very inappropriate exercise in this situation but I think it will be fun experiment.

It's about the same as my last update. Between the heat and the PGR the grass is not really growing much, even with the urea. The bluegrass is behind, it took longer to germinate and it's not taking well to the heat and shade. There may not be much of it left by September. Spread a bunch of poly coated urea today to keep a trickle of N going through summer. All in all, I'm on track for the great Poa genocide of 2017.

If you are successful in permanently eliminating most of the poa annua from your original post, I am driving to Greensboro for a paid consult. :)

Haha it's really not that complicated, you just have to have pre-emergent down before it germinates. Nothing gets past prodiamine.

Okay, it is purchased and in my garage. I plan to use it (2 mo rate) in mid-August. I am delaying seeding this year until mid-Oct. Last year, I tried to beat the falling leaves but the heat, drought, and my inexperience made seeding a very problematic endeavor. I am sad to say, my lawn seems to be fungal magnet. I sharpened the mower blades but I fear the damage was already done. Hubby says I am a "fun sucker" when I try to tell him what I learn on lawn forum.

@tarheelsol

Based on my experience Poa A seems to germinate September through April due to mild winters here in NC. I plan on doing 4 month rate in September and 4 month rate again in December.

If you have fungal issues, it would be wise to get on a preventive fungicide program. Start May 1st and keep it going through mid-September. If you seed, apply fungicide at seeding time as well, seedlings are highly susceptible.

@Scott

HGT as of an hour ago. Holding up well thus far. One cultivar out of the blend is clearly starting to dominate. Couldn't say which one, I'm assuming it's Barvette since it's the aggressive one. This area gets full blazing afternoon sun and the bluegrass seems to like it.

My...your turf looks emerald!

Regarding Ms. Poa A, I know she keeps on germinating. I know I can't eradicate it, if I am seeding in late fall. I am hoping to "make a substantial (?) dent". (Perhaps, naive) This turf science is very challenging and frustrating. Still, I am trying.

Your blue-muda is looking great!

Yep, Bermuda has arrived. I haven't done anything to it yet. I'm thinking of spraying triclopyr/2,4D to at least try and keep it under control.

That'll definitely knock it back

Update: heat is taking its toll a little, but so far I'm pretty happy. PGR + fungicide every 2 weeks.

I love your threads J4, I am hoping to overseed with an elite KBG this fall. I am going to start another thread with my plan/questions.

Another update at the end of the month. Grass is doing very well, one more month to go. Very excited knowing I'll be able to spray prodiamine in September and kill all the Poa.

Fresh haircut as of 30 minutes ago.

J4c11 looking good ;) why do you put a fungicide down? can I do that next yr, so this won't happen again to me?? and how often?

Very impressive for a spring renovation. Kudos!!

Great lawn!

Let's keep the mowing lines a little straighter next time....

:)

why do you put a fungicide down?

The summer weather here in NC promotes fungus. Mid 90s during the day, high 70s/low 80s at night and high humidity. Without fungicide a young turf like this would be wiped out fairly quickly. Even a mature one will take significant damage.

First step would be to identify the disease. I wouldn't recommend you apply preventive fungicide unless you have exhausted your cultural control options - infrequent watering, not watering in the evening, mowing a little shorter to improve airflow. A lot of fungus problems are merely cosmetic, so you will have to make a decision whether you want to sacrifice some soil life to maintain turf quality during summer. Once the disease is identified, that will dictate what product and how often.

Let's keep the mowing lines a little straighter next time....

LOL. Hey, I had to get back to the garage, and I was steering the mower with one hand and taking pictures with the other.

Looks phenomenal.

Looks great

What is your square footage if you don't mind me asking?

Front back and sides I've got about 9000.

Small house though....

I have approximately 7,000 sq ft of lawn. It wraps around the house and then there's a strip along the driveway.

So is your backyard bigger than the front?

That's what I'd assume from the pictures....

Yes a little bigger, around 2,500 sq ft. There's some pictures of the entire lawn in my renovation thread. I think 2,000 front, 1,500 side, 2,500 back and 1,000 driveway strip.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4020257/j4c11s-fall-renovation-and-overseeding

In a surprising twist, I think I spotted two clumps of Poa A while mowing today. Pretty crazy for mid-August. Put down pre-emergent at 3 month rate, was going to wait until September but oh well.

Not surprising. Poa A will probably be on ongoing issue for a few years but hopefully just dealing with a few isolated bunches here or there. At least that's the way it was for me. Poa triv is now far more problematic for me.