I can't speak to the functionality of the Gagg, but I would like to ask you whether it can be serviced and maintained where you live.

Given the high-end nature of the appliances you are looking at, you will not be satisfied or happy with a downdraft exhaust, regardless of brand. Is there any way you can reconfigure your kitchen so that the cooktop is not in the island? Or, if it must be in the island, can you get an overhead island hood? If you are going to spend this level of money on your appliances, it doesn't make much sense to shortchange the whole package with a downdraft. It's pretty much a downgrade compared to an overhead hood. A good island hood in a canopy shape can have quite a wow factor in the kitchen too.

@eam44 Yes fortunately we live in DC, so there are about half a dozen or so registered folks to choose from. The service component with Wolf was one of the huge selling points to begin with, but it seems like the Gaggenau line has very few issues and a longer warranty, so it kind of winds up being a wash.

@friedajune I wish that were possible, but in an old rowhouse the size constraints of the layout unfortunately dictate a lot of the design. I guess, technically, we could do a vent hood, but it would be so imposing in the layout that it would completely clash with the rest of the design. I love some of those hoods, they just don't work with our constraints, hell I'm surprised I was able to fit in a 36" cooktop! With both the Wolf and the Gaggenau downdrafts they seem to rise higher above the counters than any of our cooking pots would be, which seems like it should be sufficient for most of the cooking we do (admittedly this is the one area where my knowledge is severely lacking). We currently have zero ventilation in our kitchen (aside from an open window) and it's really only an issue with bacon.

So - looks are more important to you than function? OK, good to know so others do not comment on dysfunctional items.

I hope you have at least 24" on each side of the cooktop and 18" behind it if you have no seats or 24" if you do have seats. This is a safety concern in addition to functional concern.

Just so you know, I live in the DC-metro area and a downdraft is definitely a lower-end item where I live, as Friedajune mentioned. Perhaps in your immediate area it is not - the DC-metro area is very large geographically and what's expected at certain levels definitely varies.

@Buehl I wasn't really asking for a comparison between vent hoods and downdraft, more about brands, so please spare me the cynicism. I live literally in DC, not the "metro area", and I'm not really concerned with what others view as a lower-end item. They don't have to live or cook in my kitchen. Your attitude definitely reminds me of no shortage of people I've encountered in this region though, so thanks for the reminder.

Here is a bacon tip (I will never go back to pan frying): Line a cookie sheet with foil and then a cooling rack (it will get pretty messy don't use a good one). Then bake at 400 until desired crispness is reached. Sometimes I turn them over once. Takes about 15 minutes. A lot less mess.

Now a hood is used for a lot more than bacon, but I get you. I never used one much but one day I hope to!

Wish I could offer more advice than just bacon-baking.

@mobuddy89 Thanks! I actually prefer it in the oven myself as well, I love the crinkled foil trick. Hopefully with these new ovens it's even faster! Wife is still a pan bacon gal though, gotta get her converted... I totally "get" the usefulness of a hood and I would never try to debate it, it's just not an option so making the best of the situation.

I have both the Gagg combi-steam and convection ovens. I definitely use the combi more than the regular oven. It is my go-to and I use it almost daily (that's saying a lot for me). I've read some people have it as their only oven, and while I do have the convection oven as well it doesn't get used very often, but I had the room and am glad to have it as well. I think the answer lies in how often do you need a second oven and what would you cook in your regular oven that you can't fit in the combi?

Since you've got a frig matching my not be important. I'd go with a Miele dw, steam combi and possibly a Gag for the second oven. An induction cooktop from Miele is faster than gas and requires less ventilation capacity. For the downdraft a Best Cattura.

I also don't like looks more than function. I love function! And I have an island cooktop. We have this:

@dan1888 @jmarino19 I really wish I could go the induction route! But we have two huge Savannah cats who love to climb on countertops and I'm worried about what their claws would do to the surface. There's an old electric top range in the kitchen now and they do a pretty good job scratching the glass when they get spooked if they happen to be on it. Are the induction surfaces more resistant than the electric to scratches? I'll look into the Best, thanks!

@sherri1058 thanks for the info! I can't imagine that being the only oven we used based on the size, but it would certainly be nice to use it for those "perfect" finishes.

No gas available. Induction was it for us.

Very happy with the Gag ovens. We opted for Miele dw, 30" Miele cooktop, and a black Miele speed oven in the island. SZ frig. The 43" Best hood built into a soffit over the island. No obstructed views, real ventilation. I liked the Wolf ovens a lot but I wanted side opening doors. I picked each item based on function and features that fit our space and needs. Good luck.

@Justin C If you can swing the combi it is so worth it, imo! There are 2 things in my new kitchen that I absolutely love. My combi, and my induction cooktop. I knew I would like both, but the induction was my biggest "surprise". So superior to gas, easy cleanup..... but I'm sure you have done all the research, so I won't rub it in.

ps. I've had Miele dishwashers and will never get any other brand. They are great!

Good luck with your choices!

@dan1888 Do you have the Best? If so what blower option did you go with? Curious about the noise difference between 600CFM Internal compared to 1200CFM external...

Wow - that's odd. I can see both Buehl's comment from Sunday, and your response on my ipad but not on my PC. I'm assuming these were deleted at someone's request.

I just hopped on to say that Buehl is one of the forum's most respected and helpful contributors and advice provided by her, is well worth listening to.

Solving a puzzle like - how do I ventilate in this space - is one of the very rewarding things about living in a kitchen you have designed. I would suggest another post asking this question, as well as one soliciting advice about induction cooktops getting scratched.

Have you posted your layout yet for input? I can get that you don't want any negative input (as you've probably made all your decisions and don't want to make changes) but believe me, this forum is terrific at identifying potential problems. (Often, because we made the mistakes ourselves or saw others who have).

End result goal is function and form.

I love the Gaggenau stuff, but didn't think it was worth the premium over Miele and with no Gagg dealers here, I stuck with Miele. I love it, have their full size CO, combi-steam, induction cooktop, hood, dishwasher and fridge.

I use another approach on this forum. I assume that people are trying to help, and to be succinct about it. Sometimes they - and I - come off as curt. It's not intentional but it does happen to all of us, usually in the pursuit of brevity.

For what it's worth, if a kd has told you you cannot do better in your space than a downdraft hood, I bet buehl can figure out a way that you can - and have it fit your overall aesthetic.

And if you're buying for looks - and there's no harm in that - both Wolf and Gagg are gorgeous. I'm lusting over a Kohler Karbon mostly for looks, although it functions well. I'm not even trying to justify that decision, it's sheer desire.

Let us know what you choose!

Without turning this into a conversation about the kitchen forum:

In the kitchen forum, unlike some other forums, I agree that most people try to help, and also agree that buehl is a valuable long-standing contributor who has even created her own set of planning diagrams and the "read me first" threads.

That said, I do think that one of the modal personalities of the group is that there is pretty much exactly One best way to design each necessary element, and one best way to design each desired feature, and if all the criteria are not met, you can't do it, no compromises. Our way, or your kitchen is going to suck. Our way or obviously you've never cooked in a kitchen in your life and you just want something you can show off to people. Black or white, yes or no, On or off, functional or a train wreck. Ergonomically perfect, or a dangerous substandard deathtrap.

There was one early, very involved participant who on one level was helpful and wanted nothing else but to be helpful, but would make a series of suggestions that slowly morphed almost every single kitchen design into a duplicate of her own (taking into account variations in overall dimensions). I know she wanted to be helpful and she had a great kitchen, but it was if she couldn't even conceive why anyone would want something different.

I think to be truly helpful one has to take into account that there is more than one functional way to do things, that people will have different needs and desires, less than perfect does not mean disastrous or dangerous or non-functional.

I haven't had a chance to follow all the comments - I"m sorry if I've misunderstood or repeat whats already been covered. I also debated all-Wolf or all-Gaggenau. I wasn't sure exactly which ovens I'd get but was considering combi-steam as well as combo-microwave (speed oven) and I obsessed over their specs. I regretfully eliminated Gaggenau once I compared interior cavity size - it is considerably smaller than the Wolf and wouldn't fit my cookie sheets or even my largest casserole dish which I use all the time. In the end, I went with Miele (which I had previously ruled out for reasons I can't recall now) because their steam oven has the largest cavity of the three, can be plumbed in and it has a broil element, features which were key for me. It is my most beloved appliance and I use it every day for everything. Most of my appliances are Miele and I'm thrilled with them all, though there were aspects of some Wolf and Gaggnau items that I preferred. It's a tough decision with such great contenders!

Lol to the comments about the tone of some of the comments - I love this forum and am so grateful to everyone who shares their opinions and expertise but am hesitating about posting my reveal photos because I did the opposite of most of the advice I got here and I'm pretty sure it's a dangerous deathtrap too. I love it to pieces though and am thrilled with how it turned out. My kitchen is a great example of how the "rules" aren't necessarily best for everyone, however I still worry about having to be on the defence if I put myself out there.

Exactly. Agree with everything above. Form follows function does not necessarily create only one acceptable design. It would be a boring world if it did.

Jesslake,

I have to say that on this forum, participants don't critic reveals. As long as you love it, we do too. I think people who don't follow the rules can offer great advice to individuals who don't want to do things a certain way for a multitude of reasons. I see a lot of truly honest people on this forum and that is a great thing. Just because I did something does not mean that I would recommend it to others. Sometimes, the discussion about the options are more interesting than the decision or approach someone takes. There are quite a few things I would not do in my personal kitchen but I can appreciate that others may work differently than me and would enjoy those things.

Good luck!

homepro01 you're absolutely right about posters here not critiquing reveals. I've noticed that before but had forgotten now that my kitchen is almost done and close to ready for photos. It's so true that people get really engaged and have strong opinions around discussions of layout and other choices, but are 100% supportive when it comes to a finished project (without exception that I've ever seen). It's really impressive actually and I'm sorry that I've let my own insecurities get the better of me!

Jesslake,

No issues at all and I can understand the sensitivity about a completed project. Good luck with the remaining portion of your project.

Just addressing the Gaggenau combi issue. I had this oven in the house we sold recently and I adored it. I used it constantly. It was 12 yrs old and stopped working mere days after we showed our house to the couple that eventually bought our home.

i couldn't find anyone to service it. We ended up giving the new owners a discount to deal with the oven as they saw fit.

i would buy another plumbed Gagg combi for my new home in a second if I knew it could be easily serviced. Since this doesn't seem to be an issue for you...my advice is get the Gagg combi

we can get Wolf serviced easily in our area. So I will probably get the Wolf combi. I hope I'm not disappointed.

Hi,

We chose Wolf/ subzero for ovens, gas rangetop, vent hood and refrigerator. We selected Miele for the dishwasher. We did also include a combi- steam oven which we love! I highly recommend making room for the combi-steam as it is so worth it. We love all our appliances and would repeat the selections we made 3 years ago. I do especially like the stacked burners on the rangetop, very versatile. Good luck with your new kitchen and please let us know what you select.

MJ

Cats on the cooktop present a challenge that needs a bit of a compromise solution. The glass surfaces don't seem like they should scratch with claw material. But you've got that first hand experience. My response would be to go with a hard surface cover material for when the cooktop isn't in use. That's a compromise in aesthetics and creates an additional step in use. But cats are family, so there you go. I would do this rather than have lose the pluses of induction.

Gaggenau and Miele both used to make units with flip down covers...no more?

@oldbat2be I don't doubt what you're saying at all, and believe me I appreciate almost any feedback as I've found this forum to be a treasure trove of info. When you live in DC you get tired of people trying to solve problems that nobody is asking to be solved though, so I wasn't expecting it here (although from reading enough threads where unsolicited people crap on downdrafts perhaps that's my fault).

@palimpsest I agree, the height is a big selling point (and why we ultimately decided on the 18" Best suggested here). Is it a perfect solution compared to an overhead? No, but it's well within the compromise range that I think I'll be alright, especially considering how much cooking we do now with zero ventilation (and we get regular maid service so I'm not terribly concerned with cleaning). Personally I love the smell of cooking in a house, I grew up with it and wouldn't want to eliminate that.

@eam44 definitely not buying just for looks, the performance of both Wolf and Gaggenau was the #1 factor. Even if they were ugly I wouldn't have picked any two other brands (BlueStar and Miele were both contenders but lost for varying reasons based on how we cook, what we cook, etc). I am all about performance first and looks second, I just don't care about downdraft vs hood, which is why it wasn't something I asked about lol...

@homepro01 @jesslake I'll definitely be adding photos of the reveal once it's done! If people don't like it oh well, I know I'll love it.

@ILoveRed Unfortunately I couldn't convince my wife on the steam. I know we would use it, but she's just not interested. It's partly driven by the amount of space we have for "extra" items, and it's just not a priority compared to some other things (she wanted a built-in microwave rather than steam, whereas I could do without a microwave completely and be OK).

Once we got final quotes back on both lines the Gaggenau wound up being substantially more than we were told up front, even more so if we went the steam route, so we wound up going with the Wolf range/oven + Asko setup, swapped out the Wolf downdraft for the Best, and were able to add in a Wolf built-in microwave and a Wolf warming drawer and still keep the total appliance cost under $15K, which ultimately made her happy. I was able to get some photos of the countertops and floor tiles uploaded here for anyone interested.

@dan1888 @palimpsest I love the Miele induction top, but like the combi-steam I just couldn't make a case that my wife would agree with. And with the alternative still being a good performer it just wasn't one of those things I wanted to go to battle over.

@justin I was reviewing your thread here as I was contemplating the same decision. While I also know downdraft is not ideal, it's what we need for our kitchen too. I'm curious, which downdraft did you pick to go with the Wolf Contemporary cooktop and was there anything unique you did to make the install work? Would really appreciate it if you could share a photo. Thank you!

We have the Wolf combi steam above a Wolf convection. I use the combi steam probably 50% more than the regular convention. My only complaint would be cleaning it. When I use the steam mode (or reheat mode, which I love), water pools in the bottom and I have to remove it. Sometimes we forget to immediately clean it out and odors linger. It doesn't have self-clean, so in the future, I would probably look for that option. We also have a 30" Wolf induction and a Wolf 15" wok gas burner, which I rarely use. Love the induction. I can never go back to all gas.

@jmarino19, are you still happy with your Gagg ovens? They are my top choice but more expensive than Wolf. I'm having quite a time trying to find out if they continue to be reliable over time and have longevity.

@sherri1058, are you still happy with your Gagg ovens? Are they performing well? Can you share how long you've had them?

JJ Mekai You ask tough questions! How long have we had our ovens? Dunno, 5 years? We haven't had any issues with the ovens, though I suppose if I was really critical I'd say they are don't give 100% even cooking, which I would expect for the $$$ that I paid. On the other hand, I've had no issues (touch wood). Would I buy them again? In a heartbeat. We use the combi daily, and the convection regularly even though we are a just a 2 person household in a pandemic. :)

@sherri1058, thank you. Your information is very helpful. I think I'd be a little miffed if the ovens didn't provide even cooking. That's one of the things Gagg is known for. I do like that the steam oven will dry itself after use. That's a big plus over the other brands. Honestly, I'm not sure how often I would use a steam oven I would have to clean after each use. I hear other steam ovens get moldy if the water isn't cleaned out promptly after each use. I like so many things about the Gaggenau ovens. I'm having a heck of a time finding anything concrete about longevity though. I contacted Gaggenau and the answer they provided is that the average lifespan of any major appliance is 7 - 12 years. I was asking specifically about Gaggenau cooking appliances and surely Gaggenau has the statistical data after all these years. By contrast, Sub Zero reps will remind you their refrigerators are likely to last 20 years. So, I'm here trying to find out what I can.

@sherri1058, my parents had Gagg ovens for a few years. They were an absolute pleasure to cook with. Theirs did provide even cooking. But, they moved after a few years so I don't know how long they lasted.

JJ, I don't want to deter you re the 100% even cooking. I may have set my standards too high, or it may be user error (maybe the pan size was too big for the rack & impeded air flow?) I do love that the combi is plumbed in and requires so little maintenance. The cleaning is super easy as well with the broiler being behind glass. I very rarely use the self cleaning function because it is so easy to wipe clean, even after multiple uses. Good luck with your research. They, along with my Miele induction cooktop are my favourite appliances.

@JJ Mekai. I have a combi steam that I use all the time and I've never experienced a mold or mildew issue. The only issue is when you use one of the steam settings, you need to wipe out the residual water at the bottom of the oven after use. I've forgotten and left it to sit overnight, and then discover it the next day. There has been an odor of the food cooked, but never of mold. One of the settings is Auto Steam Bake, which starts out as steam and then goes to convection bake at a high temp. That hot air dries the water out completely.

Justin what did you end up with. I am deciding between the Gaggenau 200 vario series...3 gas burners and 1 dbl induction vs the Wolf contemporary gas cooktop.