When you go into any big box stores or nursery this time of year you normally see a very nice selection of healthy, nicely shaped citrus trees for sale. We are not talking about just a few leaves that are deficient..If all of the trees looked like the one above, very nutrient deficient, that would not be a good representation of the Commercial Nurseries who strive hard to provide healthy trees. They are in the business to produce quality and healthy looking trees to sell to their customers. . Whether they sell through mail or to stores and nurseries. . Gold Nugget treess leaves are not a deep green. They are a brighter green. But, the one that FW sent out to Stephan has a big nutrient deficiency. He is not happy and he is a paying customer. .

Here are pics of the GN I received from them up close

The top pic shows the more deficient leaves...not nearly as numerous as Stephan's. Here are pics of the two lemons I got from them in the same shipment....perfect leaves, beautiful trees.VillafrancaGenoa on right. This is a one year tree. Very nice shape and great leaves.

This is the GN I received for Mother's Day. It is a little pale still but has been greening up little by little. It has something going on with it but it is getting healthier.

Thank you so much for all your responses! I really appreciate all of them. Wow, your trees look great Laura and Amanda! :)

Those pale leaves will be falling off in a year or so anyway. New growth looks good. How do you know ALL their plants don't look like that?

Amanda, you should remove that stake. You should not need the support because their trees should have strong stems. Ginny, as you noticed, I finally succumbed and got that Genoa ;-). Thanks Stephen. Let us know what they say, however, I do think in the long run, that tree will look great.

I'm scared to remove the stake because we have such strong winds out here. Do you think it will ok? That's why I have my trees on the deck, there are literally no wind breakers out here.

Laura and Amanda, you have very lovely trees. They will flourish under your loving care.. :)

Laura, yes, I do see you have purchased a GL. I had a feeling that you would eventually get one. It is a beautiful tree! All of your trees are so lovely. I see you got a GN and a Villafranca.. :D You must have over seventy trees by now..My heavens!! Lol.. :D

I have been hemming back and forth for a year now on whether to add the VF citrus to my collection.. I have a lot of lemon trees and I am very happy with them. Maybe down the road. I just received a order from Harris for three young trees so now I am heading out the door to pot them up. I told myself that I was not going to order any more after I lost a few this winter, but I could not help myself. You know how it is.. Just a few more.. Still waiting for the Bergamot Sour Orange to come back in stock later this fall, and that is it.. Lol..

Amanda do what I did with my new BH, Seville and Kishu, Remove the tight green tape that holds the stem to the stake and wrap your label loosely around both, it will lessen the dependence on the stake while still giving a little support while it adjusts and strengthens, then in a month or so check and see how stable it is. The wind helps it become stronger just give it a bit of room to wiggle until its better able to stand on its own.

Sammers- that's a good idea! By now it has been exposed to the wind, so it should already be toughening up. It definitely gets shaken a bit. Thank you Laura and Sammers, I will start to wean it off the stake!

I agree with Sammers...tie it loosely so it can strengthen. Jinny, I have to ask...what did you get from Harris? I think I am finished for the year. I have a pixie coming in. Today I received a little pomegranate that I will plant in ground since my old one died this winter outside in a pot. I also got an absolutely gorgeous olive tree (Vladimir asked if that was my new obsession - perhaps, but there are not that many olive varieties for purchase and I prefer citrus anyways) from FastTrees....I will take a pic....incredible tree!

I'm sorry to hijack your thread Stephen! Please let us know what FW said. Here is a pic of the olive tree I just got...

In the pot, it is almost as tall as Alexander!

That's beautiful Laura, what kind of olive is it?/what do you plan to do with the olives?

Arbequina olive ...I'll check the tag when I get home. I don't know what I'll do with them, but am sure I'll find uses!

You know? It's been quite some time since I have ordered from them and that very much surprises me..I have never received any tree from them that didn't look a rich green and very healthy...It almost makes me think the grower himself left or the company is going down the poop shoot.....They don't even have the selections I like anymore no matter when I try to order, that is why I stopped looking there.

I have never seen a tree with nutrient issues like that from them , no matter what time of the year. Maybe they stopped using the stuff that acidifies the water..Who knows...

Mike

Thank you so much for all your responses!

I heard back from FWG, and unfortunately they're not too sympathetic: "Hello. Due to our extremely wet winter, and the combination of being in a box for a few days and no sunlight, this is normal. Place your tree in an area with morning sun and afternoon shade and you should see it perk up in no time."

I wish I had known. :( I don't think the tree's condition is normal and the result of being in a box for a couple days. I guess I'll just have to do my best with what they've given me, although the tree isn't looking too good right now. I'll probably try to stay away from FW from now on. Maybe I'll buy some chelated iron fertilizer. Do you think that would help?

By the way, Laura and Amanda, your trees look great! I hope you can continue to let us know how they're doing. Laura, I wanted the ask the same question. What can you do with olives? I was tempted to buy an olive tree when I visited Lowe's, but I don't want to have to go through the process of curing olives in a lye solution.

That doesn't seem right, they saw the picture right? They have guarantees all over their site. I am a little shocked that is what they sent you back. I know that being in a box for a couple of days does not do that to a tree because all of my trees have come to me in a box on the cheapest, slowest shipping available.

Stephen, I'm sorry they were not more responsive. However, I do think your tree will end up doing very well. In the long run, when the new growth takes over, the deficient leaves will drop and the tree will look great. About the olives...no idea but the tree is beautiful and it reminds me of our Italian vacation. I need to do more research and check back...;-)

http://honest-food.net/how-to-cure-green-olives/

I'll cure them! I have a big crock I use sometimes to make sauerkraut so I can use it to ferment the olives. It would be a fun project for my kids to learn. I had no idea it was such a long process. It will mean they taste even better after all that!!

Don't give me ideas Laura! My husband loves olives haha!

stephan- I know it is disappointing and kinda infuriating to get a bad tree. It has happened to me but I was not knowledgeable enough to save it from its problems. My first Meyer came to me a hot mess. And how I cared for it finished it off. Luckily I found this site, and had to read old posts for hours and hours until I was brave enough to ask for help. My Meyer died but now I have healthier trees after being advised by these kind people. You are already here and very experienced. Laura is a tree goddess over there with all her trees, so I'm sure that she can help you with making that challenge tree into a trophy tree. Imagine the story you can tell... I got this half-dead looking tree and I brought it back to life! You can do it, and make the best of this tree.

Stephen, your GN is healthy and is fine. Thank you for posting!

No need for me to say anything except that they will come through for you if that's how received that tree.

I'm sure if that's how you expected to receive that tree you would not of bought it. They know that

Ive known them for too many years and recommended Hundreds for them not to ignore my suggestions on this matter and they are very accommodating except for this instance That is if what your saying is true. Not that I don't believe you ))

Mike

I agree with Mike in that I don't think any of us would buy that tree for the price we pay from them including the shipping. Will the tree live and end up thriving? I am almost certain. However, when paying $40 + exorbitant shipping for a "premium" tree, I would expect more. Either way, Stephen, take good care of it and your tree will be fine. I like the challenge of rescuing trees that are not well and nursing them back to health. I do get those at a big discount though.

Mike, We will have to agree to disagree. The GN variety is not an ornamental, and I think it will really never live up to your cosmetic requirements. My GN's exhibit a high degree of variability and are not pretty; especially light green when young. Although.... I suppose to make the receiver feel better, the nursery could have stripped all the non-perfect leaves off of it before shipping.

Thank you [all] for posting... this thread has been highly entertaining!

Four Winds Growers is a good nursery, and they have problems just like the rest of us. I do think that the long spell of rain in California, is the problem with Stephen's tree. The constant rains that California had would easily wash our most all of the nutrients, resulting is the pale look of the foliage. As for the leaves with dark green veins on an otherwise yellowish background, that is only a manganese deficiency, very very common in the spring of the year, especially when a tree is putting on a flush of growth. I can easily see where Stephen would be unsatisfied receiving such a tree, but mother nature has caused many a concern much greater than Stephen's tree. A little care and nutrition, will quickly restore color and quality to the tree. Life goes on, .

Stephen. I'll bet 4 winds will stop by if they already haven't and satisfy your needs. They always have. Please call them again and give it another try. Let us know what happens. Refer to this garden forum if need be Can you do that ?

I've just spoke to them and I've already explained my feelings on this and that of many others here so no need for me to express it publicly I hope you respect that ?

They were very very understanding and said that they would take care of things if need be. It's important that they stay reputable on a forum like this and they know that )

For those of you that have made up an excuse for sending a tree like that I commend you but is still no excuse and a customer should always have the right to choose whether they still want a product that fullfills their expectations especially at such a cost. For anyone to receive a tree with that many issues with such a short growing seasonal not is unacceptable to many.

On the flip side, if I was fourwinds, I'd refund you and blacklist you. No company needs to apologize and lose money for natural seasonal variations. You are buying a living breathing thing. Only question should be "is it healthy". Not is it picture perfect.

Plenty of times i wanted a variety regardless of how young or hungry but it wasn't available. (Lemonade, valentine, Hirado Buntan) Last thing I want as a consumer is someone too scared to sell me something so I can't get it. If watering and feeding is too much trouble, you have the wrong hobby.

The person who posted this really should have done their research before making themselves look like a fool. I could understand frustration had you not gotten resolve by Four Winds Growers. But did they try to resolve the issue? Did they tell you why it looks like that? Did you also google Gold Nuggets and see that this is how they look around this time? Give it some time and quit posting pointless threads. Wait until you have some valid facts, not an idiotic assumption.

Yo, I am not sure what the point of your post was other then being rude. If you had bothered to read the entirety of the OP's posts you would see that they weren't sure if this condition of the plant was within normal variances and wanted to know if they should be concerned about it, FWG got back to them with a cookie cutter brush off response and he said while disappointed he was going to make a go of it. While I personally think the tree is fine, on the nutrient deficient side of fine, but still fine I don't fault him or others for being upset about it. Maybe not to the extent that some were but to each their own, I am currently having a fit over OGW trees having scale (which may or may not be justified depending who you talk to) The point is I dont think the OP came here to bit*h or start a fight, he was disappointed in his tree and was looking for reassurance.

With that out of the way, Stephen I think a reasonable request to make of four winds is a partial refund on the tree, while it certainly will bounce back after a few months of good fertilizer and sun it still set you back some in the growth of your tree, I know I order premium trees to have a head a start on growing and that's partially negated when they come nutrient deficient like that, you could have got better growth out of one of the lower level trees over the same time investment if they were better off to begin with then this one. Its a small thing but even refunding the difference between the choice and premium size would be reasonable compensation for the recovery time. Shipping doesn't make it nutrient deficient, heavy rains may but it is their job to compensate for that since they are the grower. Tell them while you understand it may be droopy from shipping the nutrient deficiency is a bit excessive. All that said your tree will be fine and if it were me i'd be disappointed but not irritated enough to pursue it.

Hey everyone. I just want to say sorry if I offended anyone by asking my question. I'm quite new here and to gardening. That's why I decided to ask the knowledgeable folks in this forum. Please know that I wasn't frustrated or trying to attack anyone. I see that many folks here feel strongly about FW. But I would hope that we would always be gracious and keep from discouraging others from sharing their thoughts. Many thanks to everyone who has been so kind and took the time to respond!! I actually feel bad for even contacting FW. I responded to their original email, so I'll just wait to see how they respond. But I'm apt to just try my best with what I've been given. Thanks again!

Wow, all I can say is I am quite disappointed at the reactions to this. I don't see anything wrong or malicious about Stephens post nor do I think he was "crying on the internet" he asked a question and the ones who overreacted had nothing to do with him, I don't know Stephen but he did what many of us do and asked the GW citrus community for their input. I don't see why he is being slammed. My personal experience with a tree not that deficient (bearss) is that 9 months later its still recovering, I know that has a lot to do with being weak going into winter but it doesn't fix itself overnight. I am of the opinion its no big deal and can be corrected at home but overreactions on both sides don't justify making new posters afraid to ask questions. I know there are a lot of veteran citrus posters here that think they can act however they want but its rude and detrimental to people sharing and learning from others citrus growing experience. I apologize to everyone that I am taking this so seriously and I truly don't mean to offend anyone but I think people get into this bubble of thinking they can say and do whatever on the internet without being called out on it. I won't post on this again but since I feel like Stephen is owed an apology he won't get I will do it for you. Stephen I am sorry you ended up in the middle of a pissing match between people who have incredibly strong convictions on what is right and wrong in regards to the quality of tree you received. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking questions and relying on "experts" opinions/experiences. I hope this doesn't prevent you or anyone else from thinking this is a helpful place.

Ditto what Sammers said.

This has been entertaining but also irritating, as only an internet tempest in a teapot can be. So many head scratching comments, I'll just quote a few of them.

"For anyone to receive a tree with that many issues" Just how many issues can you see in that one zoomed in photo Mike? I see some pale, veined old leaves with lots of new, healthy, green, vigorous growth on top of them. There are no mites, no scale, no curled leaves, no dead leaves, no broken branches, no bare branches, no dead branches in sight. There is only one issue in that photo, not many issues, and it isn't major.

"they weren't sure if this condition of the plant was within normal variances and wanted to know if they should be concerned about it, FWG got back to them with a cookie cutter brush off response" Sammers, why is it a brushoff, was it just because FW didn't agree with your expert assessment made from one photo? How many citrus trees have you grown? How many has Four Winds grown?

"My personal experience with a tree not that deficient (bearss) is that 9 months later its still recovering" Again, the only photo shows lots of new vigorous growth that has none of the pale veining of the old leaves. I would say that Stephen's tree is recovering now, he doesn't even need to wait 9 months to see it.

"I don't think there is anything wrong with asking questions and relying on "experts" opinions/experiences." But wouldn't you consider Four Winds to be more of an expert than a bunch of guys on the internet? They gave their expert opinion that it was not a problem, why don't you believe them?

"I think people get into this bubble of thinking they can say and do whatever on the internet without being called out on it." Totally agree, although I'm not sure that you understand who was inflating the bubble with hot air and who was right in calling them on it.

Stephen came here for advice and he got a lot of uninformed opinions telling him the sky is falling and others trying to gather up an internet posse to force FW into submission for a problem that doesn't exist. Any apologies for that?

Kentc- it's not just about whether the tree will live or die eventually but mostly about the trust people here have developed in FW to sell acceptable trees. He ordered a more expensive option for a better tree. If you ordered a car from a dealer but it came with a huge scratch, would you not be upset? Even if people told you that it could, over time, be fixed by you putting in time, money, and effort? It's more about the business sending him a tree that they should have 'fixed' before selling it. If they were out of acceptable trees, refund the money and let him know. He is a beginner and I feel his pain. It's hard enough growing these trees in pots, let alone starting with one that already needs help. It is just a bad business transaction.

Amanda, a tree is not a car but I might agree with your scratch analogy if his tree arrived with a big strip of bark peeled off the trunk. Once again, what evidence in Stephen's photo suggests that his tree "needs help?" It's healthy, green vigorous and growing. To use your car analogy it appears to just have a dirty windshield.

Let's face it, the tree was not of he best quality and FW did not inform the customer before selling it to him. Sure, it will eventually improve, but that is not what the customer payed for.

If this internationally certified curmudgeon didn't find anything wrong with Stephen's questions, maybe those who did just need to get some better drugs. BTW the condition of the OP's plant just shows typical Magnesium and Manganese deficiencies that will likely correct themselves as the weather and soil warm a little. I would also have been a little disappointed; but I would not ask for a replacement. The person who responded from 4WG should have done a little better job of explaining the problem and that it should correct itself.

Laura Mikey buddy, Amanda Vladimir, Sammers right on good for you guy's. Stephen this is really to bad you have a right to your opinion so don' t worry to much my friend no one listens or pays much attention to those guy's anyways.

Brian

Stephen, you are in good hands here and if you decide to spend time nursing that tree back to the way you'd like to see it, then many here will stand by you. Let us know what you decide. It will take time depending on your weather, cultural habits and sunlight....

Brian by friend,. it is people like you that make coming to this all my WORTHWHILE...You have a heart of gold and that makes this forum one of the best despite a few trolls or obstinate, contrary to everything said here by others....Thanks for all you do and for still being a true supporter of these trees and of those of who you know intentions are good...

Mike

John and I don't agree much, but even he says the tree is fine.

all in all, this kind of whining is the reason we don't have more online sellers. It probably isn't worth the hassle for many of them.

Curious how you all compare the taste of Gold Nugget to Dekopon (Sumo)? Is one harder to grow well than the other? Do they ripen at different times?

Wow. I just went to FW to order the GN because of all the reviews (as I urgently need to expand my collection ugh) and found this heated discussion, kinda sad really. Yup I got some of those trees too and some are recovered very nicely and only one out of five might not but too early to say. This did not stop me from ordering a Fukushu from FW. Reason I like the trees from FW is their root ball (not visible right away and rarely posted pictures but will do when re-potting later) and it came in perfect condition yesterday. So, yup I'll take the plunge and check my cart out. This is a new batch just came in and of course hoping it will be in good condition too.

My faith in FW has been shaken because I received a New Zealand Lemonade in March with what looked like a nutrient deficiency but was told by FW that it was due to the unusual environmental conditions they were having. Since then, it has dropped many of its leaves and has not put out any new growth.

Vladimir that is sad. I just hope that the GN will be good as this is a new batch

Lauren just posted that she got a second sorry looking tree from FW.

yes I saw. Sad. If I get a sad looking tree next week I will post and probably not order anymore from them. Shipping is just too expensive.

My GN from them that arrived maybe a couple of weeks before Stephen's is looking better. I got rid of the scale and it has grown new shoots that have now matured and are dark green. The leaves the tree came with were very deficient and it has dropped many. I still find it is dropping the old leaves almost daily. However, the new growth that it put out looks good so I think the tree is on its way to health. I do expect better from them. My bouquet de fleurs may be improving, but it was very light when I got it and seemed to get worse after being here for a while. I THINK it finally is on its way to health although it has not pushed out any growth other than the rootstock, which I removed.

Hi Laura, beautiful arbequina! Did you bring it inside with your citrus trees? If so, how is it fairing? I brought mine inside last winter and it lost almost all of its leaves, so I planted it last Spring and it survived last week with only a frost blanket. I wish there was a forum for olives...